Shabana Azmi voices on discrimination against Muslims

[fineleg]

http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20080816/818/tnl-indian-muslims-safer-but-face-discri.html?printer=1 Indian Muslims safer, but face discrimination: Shabana Azmi Indo Asian News Service Sat, Aug 16 08:19 PM New Delhi, Aug 16 (IANS) Indian Muslims are in a 'safer place' as they have a 'stake and space in Indian democracy' as compared to Muslims in other parts of the world, feels noted Bollywood actor Shabana Azmi; but she is unhappy that there is still discrimination against the community. Accusing Indian politicians for promoting a stereotype image of the Muslim community, Azmi, in an interview with television journalist Karan Thapar on CNN-IBN's 'Devil's Advocate', also blamed the community for allowing themselves to listen to the fundamentalists. Apprehending that the lingering Kashmir crisis could lead to a Hindu-Muslim divide elsewhere in the country, Azmi, also a noted social activist, sounded bitter for being unable to buy a house in Mumbai because she is a Muslim. Reposing her faith in the country's democracy, Azmi said: 'I think Indian Muslims are in a safer place because the Indian Muslim has a stake and space in Indian democracy.' 'It's a very huge thing that we are part of a democracy and Indian Muslims can aspire to become a Shah Rukh Khan, can aspire to become Irfan Pathan, the President of India, and that makes the Muslims far more hopeful than those in other parts of the world,' said Azmi. Azmi's interview is to be telecast at 8.30 p.m. Sunday. She said that Indian democracy lacks the understanding of security for minorities while Indian politics makes only 'token gestures' to Muslims but never addresses the 'real issues' afflicting them. 'I think there is not enough understanding of the fact that in a democracy how you treat the security of the minority must be a very important part for the success of a democracy,' she said. 'You cannot only make token gestures and actually let them be in the state that they are as the Rajinder Sachar Committee report shows. Token gestures are made, but real issues are never addressed.' Responding to suggestions of discrimination against the Muslim community, Azmi said with a tinge of bitterness: 'I cannot get a house in Mumbai. I wanted to buy a flat in Mumbai and it wasn't given to me because I was a Muslim and I read the same about Saif (Ali Khan).' 'Now, I mean, if Javed Akhtar and Shabana Azmi cannot get a flat in Mumbai because they are Muslims, then what are we talking about?,' said Azmi. Responding to Thapar's query on her feelings about the Western perception of 'Islam as a threat and Muslims as figures of fear and hate', Azmi said she felt 'exasperation, anger, hurt and bewilderment'. But she agreed with Thapar's suggestion that part of the onus is on Muslims to change the image of their religion and community. 'I think it is. I would accept that. I don't think that the Muslim leadership has bothered to clear the air about what Islam actually is,' she said. She added that 'the community is also allowing itself to listen to the fundamentalists, who actually are not their leaders at all.' Asked if Muslims need their own leaders, Azmi said: 'No, no, no, no. Jawaharlal Nehru was a leader of Muslims and that's the way it should be. You don't need a Muslim leader for that.' She also blamed politicians for promoting a stereotype image of the Muslim community and stifling their moderate and liberal voices, but added that there was a fledgling resurgence of liberalism in the community. 'You look at all the politicians, whether it is Atal Bihari Vajpayee, or Indira Gandhi or anybody, the minute it's a Muslim question, you get all the dariwalas (bearded people) and Maulvis only to speak,' she said. She, however, added: 'There is a resurgence of the moderate liberal voice which is now taking on the affairs of the community.' Azmi also agreed with Thapar's suggestion that the present crisis in Kashmir could create a Hindu-Muslim divide elsewhere in the country. 'Absolutely. I can see that happening. That's why I am so distressed over what is happening in Kashmir. For heaven's sake it should be brought to a stop and it should have been brought to a stop right when they started that nonsense,' she said.

[DomainK]

Can not get a flat in Mumbai because they are Muslims? How come Mumbai has such a large Muslim population then? How come there are so many societies full of Muslim flat owners? So why would a Javed Akhtar and a Shabana Aazmi not get a flat in Mumbai? I dont like her anyways.

[THX_1138]

I think a rather fair and accurate assessment. Indeed there is a resurgence of muslim moderatism in the rest of india, inspired in large parts by the economic opportunities available. however, the discrimination on the basis of religion in something so inherently fundamental to a citizen such as a place of residence is just one such obstacle in the path of a fair society. i appreciate that fact that she acknowledges that a muslim leader is not the solution to establishing equality and that there is room for reform in the religious ideology... not many muslims outside india have had the chutzpah to state that... and by that i mean not audacity but more along the lines of strength to acknowledge the truth and state it, irrespective of its unpopularity amongst the pertinent community.

[sandtest]

Ohh...well, Shabana Azmi has come out of her closet now. And wait, Shabana knows very well about Mumbai and yet she ignores well developed societies like Millat Nagar in Lokhandwala and some buildings in Marol where only Sunni and Shia Muslims are allowed respectively. Somone should tell this idiot karan Thapar to ask question to Shabana about Millat Nagar and let's see what is her response.

[sandtest]

As, I have said earlier and I will REPEAT here again and again without showing any PCness/self-apology that-- Not only Kashmir, Muslims gaining a population of "Critical mass" sufficient to split from country they will start seperatist movement. It is not just the problem of India, Look at Xinxiang, Uighur in China, Phillipines Mindnao Muslim areas, Chechanya in Russia, Lebanon --where Christians are no more in majority and they are feeling the heat. It's everywhere -- allow Muslims to grow and form a "critical" mass" in particular area and consider that area gone, Shariah unavoidable with later demand for seperate constitution and rule. And people like Shabana, Shahrukh, Javed Akhtar, Teesta Setalvad (she has married a Muslim and converted) will not a loose a second to join the bandwagon, if at all tomorrow they see a strong possibility form a seperate state out of India.

[punjabi_khota]

ohh memsaab .... Fix your community ... be gratefull that despite multiple fractures of the country all engineered by your supposedly peacefull community that you are allowed to even live in the country .... Ever wonder why other minorities dont have such problems ? Yep problem lies in your religion your community not elsewhere. And the gall of this woman to come and complain on Media when there are bombblasts-a-month going on (again no prizes for guessing who is the guilty party )

Haha..it is all in the papers these days.

[sandtest]

http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20080816/818/tnl-indian-muslims-safer-but-face-discri.html?printer=1

Apprehending that the lingering Kashmir crisis could lead to a Hindu-Muslim divide elsewhere in the country, Azmi, also a noted social activist, sounded bitter for being unable to buy a house in Mumbai because she is a Muslim.

Ohh...tell me that area Mrs. Shabana, and don't talk in "symbols", You are a hypocrite....a hidden supporter of Jeehadis spitting lie on a channel well known for it's Congress support. I am still unable to comprehend who the hell will not like neighboring a celebrity in Mumbai...unless of course you are frequented by Jeehadi slogan shouters of SIMIs underground activists. Didn't you notice that there are Muslim societies in Mumbai where non-Muslims are not allowed? It's called convienience for society members since each comminity has different practices....a vegetarian community of Jains in Mumbai who strcitly abhor any kind of violence will not like a that a goat is slaughtered on the day of Bakra-eid so they instead of hurting Muslim sentiments will politely say that they will not feel comfortable. what's wrong in that? even Muslim societies do that. Why you don't talk about that?

Reposing her faith in the country's democracy, Azmi said: 'I think Indian Muslims are in a safer place because the Indian Muslim has a stake and space in Indian democracy.'

They have more than just the stake...they are apeased by Congress and assorted p-secs of India for vote bank. REALIZE this.

'It's a very huge thing that we are part of a democracy and Indian Muslims can aspire to become a Shah Rukh Khan, can aspire to become Irfan Pathan, the President of India, and that makes the Muslims far more hopeful than those in other parts of the world,' said Azmi.

NO madam. YOU can't compre Dr. Kalam with rest. Dr. Kalam is UNIQUE....an atheist, a scientist born in a Muslim family. That is why he is a great nationalist. It will be very difficult for any practicing Muslim to ally with country ruled by kufrs since islam discourages nationalism.

She said that Indian democracy lacks the understanding of security for minorities while Indian politics makes only 'token gestures' to Muslims but never addresses the 'real issues' afflicting them.

Woww really.... Haj subsidy is a "TOKEN" GESTURE. entire constitution was changed by morons of Congress to protect a Shah Banu honor and dignity of Ummah. And India has seperate laws for Muslims in marraige --- even USA doesnot practice such shamelessness of appeasement. Indian Hindus and their temples are directly CONTROLLED by government, money is taken away by government. While Mosques and Madrassas are free to run on their own and preach. definately, it is a Token gesture by Congress -- afterall they have started this appeasement and now India will pay for that beacuse Muslism are going to ridicule everything anyway. A Kashmir digests miliions of Indian rupess generated from honest taxpayers and yet kashmiri Ummah never misses a chance of burning our national flag...look at the mirror Shabana.

'I think there is not enough understanding of the fact that in a democracy how you treat the security of the minority must be a very important part for the success of a democracy,' she said.

And how you treat the Security of ALL population is important.

[Guest dada_rocks]

I watched whole interview. see with these socalled humanist like this only beef I have is they have selective amnesia. as per shaba azami.. before this even hindu/musim have been happening in harmony in j/k.. how conveneint miss of the worst kind f genocide and ethnic cleansing of vallye hindus by muslims.. somehow azami 's cerebral map didn;t register this event.. see since she missed the whole event so I can't even accuse her of harping over one baabri mosque at ther uins of temples when more than 500 temples went missing from kashmir overnight in early 90's.. it's good to sound oh so concerned but show the same concern across the board madam..

[sandtest]

and assorted scums like Karan Thappad have no shame at all...they don't even ask questions which will force Shabana to look at the mirror. Reality is such interviews are carefully planted to make layman viewer apologist...not everyone in India is aware about deep-rooted appeasement.

[Guest dada_rocks]

and assorted scums like Karan Thappad have no shame at all...they don't even ask questions which will force Shabana to look at the mirror. Reality is such interviews are carefully planted to make layman viewer apologist...not everyone in India is aware about deep-rooted appeasement.

So true... The same guy i.e Karan thapar gets so vindictive and informed if u place some Modi in hot seat.. This was less of Devil'a advocate style coounter-quetionsing more of a Shabana Azmi lecture with conevnient acts of ommision and commisison in order to put the particular ideological thought across.

[Lurker]

Apprehending that the lingering Kashmir crisis could lead to a Hindu-Muslim divide elsewhere in the country, Azmi, also a noted social activist, sounded bitter for being unable to buy a house in Mumbai because she is a Muslim. Reposing her faith in the country's democracy, Azmi said: 'I think Indian Muslims are in a safer place because the Indian Muslim has a stake and space in Indian democracy.' 'It's a very huge thing that we are part of a democracy and Indian Muslims can aspire to become a Shah Rukh Khan, can aspire to become Irfan Pathan, the President of India, and that makes the Muslims far more hopeful than those in other parts of the world,' said Azmi. Azmi's interview is to be telecast at 8.30 p.m. Sunday.

Seriously how many times are we going to do/say this? Mumbai, inspite of being India's most cosmopolitan city, is also India's most divisive city. And yes there are pockets where Muslims wont be allowed to buy a house. Heck even Hindus are not allowed to buy houses inside a Hindu community sometimes. The latter I have seen first hand in Gujrati, Jain, Sarswat Brahmin infested areas where eating non-veg is a no-no. Mumbai definitely needs a fix. xxx

[kumble_rocks]

As, I have said earlier and I will REPEAT here again and again without showing any PCness/self-apology that-- Not only Kashmir, Muslims gaining a population of "Critical mass" sufficient to split from country they will start seperatist movement. It is not just the problem of India, Look at Xinxiang, Uighur in China, Phillipines Mindnao Muslim areas, Chechanya in Russia, Lebanon --where Christians are no more in majority and they are feeling the heat. It's everywhere -- allow Muslims to grow and form a "critical" mass" in particular area and consider that area gone, Shariah unavoidable with later demand for seperate constitution and rule. And people like Shabana, Shahrukh, Javed Akhtar, Teesta Setalvad (she has married a Muslim and converted) will not a loose a second to join the bandwagon, if at all tomorrow they see a strong possibility form a seperate state out of India.

I totally agree with your bold part. What kind of twisted logic is this , they claim Sharia is better than Social Democracy . I have had some discussions with Muslims on this topic. My take is , devout Muslims generally support Sharia because they feel it accords all protection to minorities. They take the example of the Prophet to highlight their point vis-avis his relation with Christians. But the not so devout muslims and their is a considerable number do not care about Sharia. They think it is oppressive to them itself , forget others ..

[THX_1138]

I totally agree with your bold part. What kind of twisted logic is this ' date=' they claim Sharia is better than Social Democracy . I have had some discussions with Muslims on this topic. My take is , devout Muslims generally support Sharia because they feel it accords all protection to minorities. They take the example of the Prophet to highlight their point vis-avis his relation with Christians. But the not so devout muslims and their is a considerable number do not care about Sharia. They think it is oppressive to them itself , forget others ..[/quote'] Sharia is easily the most devisive law out there... heck you cant even call it a legal system... its just a executive algorithm for further division of society into two houses: the house of the believers and the house of 'war' or struggle, i.e. jihad. minorities are not afforded any protection under sharia, heck women are oppressed under sharia irrespective of their religious leanings. the truth is that most well educated muslims do not desire the imposition of shariah or are ambivalent about it. it is only the improvised, radicalized and marginal muslims that have expressed this desire, and well... appeasement or not, you can be bloody certain that it will never be imposed. nonetheless, that has nothing to do with what shabana azmi has stated. she is pointing out that rather than making consolatory token gestures, the government should inact bold reforms to fix the problems of the marginalized... and that includes both muslims, and hindus (especially those belonging to the so called lower castes).

[Guest dada_rocks]

Kashmir Valley mien Nizam-e-mustafa ki maang kab se chal rahi hai

[kumble_rocks]

You couldnt be any farther from truth ... There have been demands for Sharia in 1st world countries such as UK' date=France,Canada and Holland etc .... these countries have very high levels of literacy and economic stability than the ones in South Asia or middle east.

Agree . More than the educated, it is the deeply religious devout Muslims that want Sharia. They prescribe to Islamic jurisprudence and they want Sharia to super-cede the state law. They feel that the western culture and traditions does not align with their Islamic ideology. The concept of separation of church and state is totally absent for these samples. But here is the hypocrisy , they want Sharia for banks, civil dispute, marriage etc but when it comes to criminal law they want to enjoy the penal codes of social democracy. Same is the case in India .Go figure...

[suraj]

Ohh...tell me that area Mrs. Shabana, and don't talk in "symbols", You are a hypocrite....a hidden supporter of Jeehadis spitting lie on a channel well known for it's Congress support. I am still unable to comprehend who the hell will not like neighboring a celebrity in Mumbai...unless of course you are frequented by Jeehadi slogan shouters of SIMIs underground activists. Didn't you notice that there are Muslim societies in Mumbai where non-Muslims are not allowed? It's called convienience for society members since each comminity has different practices....a vegetarian community of Jains in Mumbai who strcitly abhor any kind of violence will not like a that a goat is slaughtered on the day of Bakra-eid so they instead of hurting Muslim sentiments will politely say that they will not feel comfortable. what's wrong in that? even Muslim societies do that. Why you don't talk about that? They have more than just the stake...they are apeased by Congress and assorted p-secs of India for vote bank. REALIZE this. NO madam. YOU can't compre Dr. Kalam with rest. Dr. Kalam is UNIQUE....an atheist, a scientist born in a Muslim family. That is why he is a great nationalist. It will be very difficult for any practicing Muslim to ally with country ruled by kufrs since islam discourages nationalism. Woww really.... Haj subsidy is a "TOKEN" GESTURE. entire constitution was changed by morons of Congress to protect a Shah Banu honor and dignity of Ummah. And India has seperate laws for Muslims in marraige --- even USA doesnot practice such shamelessness of appeasement. Indian Hindus and their temples are directly CONTROLLED by government, money is taken away by government. While Mosques and Madrassas are free to run on their own and preach. definately, it is a Token gesture by Congress -- afterall they have started this appeasement and now India will pay for that beacuse Muslism are going to ridicule everything anyway. A Kashmir digests miliions of Indian rupess generated from honest taxpayers and yet kashmiri Ummah never misses a chance of burning our national flag...look at the mirror Shabana. And how you treat the Security of ALL population is important.

Great post sandtest!!! Great breakdown:two_thumbs_up:

[THX_1138]

You couldnt be any farther from truth ... There have been demands for Sharia in 1st world countries such as UK' date='France,Canada and Holland etc .... these countries have very high levels of literacy and economic stability than the ones in South Asia or middle east.[/quote'] did u care to examine the demographics of the muslim population in those nations? the form the rock bottom with other migrant populations vis a vis education, and household income. ideal breeding grounds for extremism and thus those demands. notice that no such demands for returning to shariah have been made in the united states, turkey or australia where economic reforms have permeated the society a lot better.

[kumble_rocks]

:omg: :nervous: DR , Sandtest it looks like our job here is done we need to find another MB to do our Gitopadesh :-D

I have always agreed on Sharia and it's draconian laws ! But , it's also true that many a Muslims do not like Sharia. Just look at Pak cricket team . Do you seriously think that guys like Akhtar, Asif , YK etc will want Sharia. These guys drink and smoke pot , for gods sake.

[Guest dada_rocks]

I told you in past BB enough knowledge have been spread here .. See for thinking people give him information and let him make conclusions and if he/she is honest to himself herself he will get to the right conclusion.. With dishonests ones even eons of badgering won't help. In our absense even CC sees the light I have read few of his posts posted during our absence.. Those could very well have been DD Ki Kalam Se. He loses balance only when he sees us around.:--D

[kumble_rocks]

I told you in past BB enough knowledge have been spread here .. See for thinking people give him information and let him make conclusions and if he/she is honest to himself herself he will get to the right conclusion.. With dishonests ones even eons of badgering won't help.

But their is no reciprocation from your side ! When have you changed your thought process or positions on any thing no matter how ridiculous they are. Be it ur support for Mccain, fake Iraq war , blasting Obama in-spite of him being hawkish against Pakistan and Taliban , supporting AB inspite of his dubious links with SIMI sympathizers , blasting SRK without any proof , blasting Turkey even though they treat their Muslim Kurds far worse than any public tv censorship which you talk about , your hawkish stance on Iran and veto for gas pipe with India ... The list goes on ... .. . In the two years , I have been here , you rarely change positions ..