Trescothick's Shocking Revelation

[DadaRocks]

there is a difference between using tricks and shamelessly tampering the pitch.

that was not tampering...unknowningly...afridi was on the pitch and just practising his action like all bowlers do on the field.....but since it was done by an asian player...english media made a story out of it :omg:

[Desi Cartman]

that was not tampering...unknowningly...afridi was on the pitch and just practising his action like all bowlers do on the field.....but since it was done by an asian player...english media made a story out of it :omg:

Post of the day :congrats:

[punjabi_khota]

that was not tampering...unknowningly...afridi was on the pitch and just practising his action like all bowlers do on the field.....but since it was done by an asian player...english media made a story out of it :omg:

I like your posts man, I see what you do here all the time. :D

[MundaPakistani]

NO they never reached thugs stage in reverse swing..

yeah... they were bowling gun barrel straight...no swing what so ever.:cantstop: p.s can one of the other posters who watched the ENG IND series please correct this guy(again) so i don't have waste my time. thanks.

[Chandan]

yeah...they were getting" prodigious" swing through out the English tour.

Faisal, They were getting "prodigious swing" not "reverse swing" which the sweets heavy salive helps in achieving . So just can't think how anyone can question that!

First of all, I would like to question the scientific wisdom of anyone who claims saliva that contains more sugar from mints helps the keep the shine longer. Unless anyone can actually prove it, all this talk of 'Trescothick did that, Aussies complained' is just hot air.

Sriram, I don't think I can explain it fully but it has been explained in many books that rubbing the ball's one side constantly with the sweet-heavy saliva makes it a little heavier than the other side and hence the balls swings in that direction. I'm sure if you search for an explanation you'll get many from different people on the net stating the same thing.

[Sachinism]

"It had been common knowledge in county cricket for some time that certain sweets produced saliva which, when applied to the ball for cleaning purposes, enabled it to keep its shine for longer and therefore its swing.'' He found Murray Mints worked the best. from cricinfo's article about this situation

[MundaPakistani]

Faisal, They were getting "prodigious swing" not "reverse swing" which the sweets heavy salive helps in achieving . So just can't think how anyone can question that! .

huh? Indian bowlers were not getting reverse swing? i (and dhondy)must have been watching some other game http://indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=110616&postcount=14 "reversed like a banana"

[Sachinism]

'It's illegal, isn't it?' Marcus Trescothick's admission that he used mint-induced saliva to keep the shine on the ball during the 2005 Ashes might give his autobiography Coming Back To Me the perfect launch, but it has left him and his Ashes-winning team open to the charge of ball tampering. Trescothick, who was England's official ball-shiner during the series admitted that he had used Murray Mints to produce a saliva which, "when applied to the ball for cleaning purposes, enabled it to keep its shine for longer and therefore its swing'.' Damien Fleming, the former Australia swing bowler, is of the opinion that Trescothick's strategy was against the laws of the game. "It is some form of ball tampering, it is not about natural deterioration," he said. "It is illegal, isn't it?" Fleming told Cricinfo that though he was happy to be a bit more naive and thought it was good bowling, he always felt something was amiss to see the ball reverse-swing in England. "I loved the wrist release of Flintoff, Jones and Harmison, but always felt something was going on as the ball was reversing by the 40th over, especially on a grassy pitches," Fleming said. "You're used to seeing the ball reverse early on the much rougher tracks in the subcontinent where the hard surface makes the ball abrasive easily." Angus Fraser, the former England medium pace bowler who covered the series for the Independent, wouldn't go as far as to deem the practice illegal, but he believed the disclosure has exposed the hypocrisy that has existed over ball tampering. According to Fraser, who has been part of the ICC's technical committee, the tactics Trescothick employed to shine the ball has been always popular on the county circuit. "I don't know if it is illegal," he said. "To me it is a total hypocrisy on what is deemed to be ball tampering. When Pakistan were accused of ball tampering it was built into something that was abhorrent. Ball tampering is ball tampering whether you scratch the ball or whether you deliberately put in sugary saliva on it to aid its shine so I don't see any difference between one and the either. "There are huge inconsistencies for one side to complain about the other scratching the ball when they are deliberately sucking sugary sweets to shine the ball," he said. Peter Willey, former England batsman and ex-ICC umpire, who still officiates at county games, has seen bowlers using all sorts of methods on the ball. He offers an interesting analogy to Trescothick's mint. "People use suntan oil, lip salve, scruff the ball with finger and thumbs until they get caught. If you apply suntan oil on you forehead or face or arms and rub the sweat on your body (which is mixed with suntan oil) and then rub the ball what is the difference?" While Willey believed Trescothick didn't violate the spirit of the game, Fraser wanted to look at the issue from another angle. "It is impossible to police," he said. "If a batsman edges the ball and stands his ground and no-one says a word, that is part of the game. And if a bowler adds sugary saliva on the ball, the spirit of the game is called into question. There should be some leniency about what the bowler can do to the ball. You don't want a cricket ball tested at the end of day for sugar, for sun cream, for lip gel, for finger nails and whatever else you want to try and put on it." Michael Kasprowicz, who was a central performer in the second Test of that Ashes series, as the batsman who was dismissed caught-behind to Flintoff at Edgbaston, a decision which sealed Australia's heartbreaking two-run loss, said he was not bitter about Trescothick's admission. "I actually wish Marcus put a bit more mint on the ball so it deflected further off my glove," he said. "We're talking about sugar coating using mints. There are a lot more major issues in the game at the moment to worry about." Troy Cooley was the England bowling coach at the time and his reverse-swing techniques helped clinch the series. He denied having any clue about the practice. "I had no knowledge of it and I certainly wouldn't recommend anything like that," Cooley told the Daily Telegraph. "I don't know if it would even work. I would never cheat in the game. Bowlers have used sweat and polish over the years to shine the ball. There is an old wives' tale from past years that sunscreen and Brylcreem helps the ball swing, but I don't know about that." According to Law 42.3(a)(i) any fielder "may polish the ball provided that no artificial substance is used ..." In Trescothick's case, the artificial substance was the mint which he didn't use directly but the mint induced the saliva which he used as an aid to shine the ball. But does sucking a mint and applying the saliva amount to the application of an artificial substance? The ICC's verdict was "using artificial measures to shine the ball is illegal", but they would not "outlaw sucking sweets''. As of now, the ICC has said it will not interfere. "It depends on the evidence and circumstances, so if something is brought to our attention it would be dealt with," an ICC spokesperson told BBC. The ECB have decided not to comment on the issue for the moment. "We have only seen reports of this admission," an ECB spokesperson said. http://content-www.cricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/366225.html ----- A lot of varying views

[Feed]

Mints weren't my idea: Cooley ENGLAND did not have a plan to cheat during the 2005 Ashes by using sticky saliva from mint sweets to polish the ball, according to bowling coach Troy Cooley. More... Mints weren't my idea: Cooley By Malcolm Conn Cooley ... used the mind, not the tongue, to help England. August 26, 2008 ENGLAND did not have a plan to cheat during the 2005 Ashes by using sticky saliva from mint sweets to polish the ball, according to bowling coach Troy Cooley. In a scandal which has created more mirth than outrage, Cooley, who has since become Australia's bowling coach, claimed he was unaware of the practice revealed by former England opener Marcus Trescothick and doubted it would work. The former Tasmania paceman is credited with masterminding the brilliant reverse swing of the England pace quartet, particularly Andrew Flintoff and Simon Jones, which enabled England to reclaim the Ashes for the first time in two decades. "Bowlers have used sweat and polish over the years to shine the ball," Cooley said from Australia's training camp in Brisbane. "There is an old wives' tale from past years that sunscreen and Brylcreem helps the ball swing but I don't know about that." Trescothick wrote in his just-published autobiography that it was his job to look after the ball when in the field. "It was my job to keep the shine on the new ball for as long as possible with a bit of spit and a lot of polish," he said. "And through trial and error I finally settled on the type of spit for the task at hand. "It had been common knowledge in county cricket for some time that certain sweets produced saliva which, when applied to the ball for cleaning purposes, enabled it to keep its shine for longer and therefore its swing. "I had a go at Murray Mints and found they worked a treat." Sweets fell from Trescothick's pockets in a 2001 Test match and he was suspected of a similar abuse of the spirit of the game at the time. In 2004, India vice-captain Rahul Dravid was fined half of his match fee for ball-tampering during a one-day game against Zimbabwe in Brisbane when a lozenge stuck to the ball. Law 42.5 states: "No one shall rub the ball on the ground, use any artificial substance, or take any other action to alter the condition of the ball." The International Cricket Council has played down the issue, claiming it could not stop people from chewing gum, and Cricket Australia has dismissed it completely. "That's ancient history and we're not going to breathe life into the dust of ancient history," a CA spokesman said. Michael Clarke, Australia's acting captain in the absence of an injured Ricky Ponting, played a similarly straight bat. "It's the past," Clarke said at the Brisbane training camp. "Right now we are looking forward to playing Bangladesh in Darwin and our chance will come over the next 15 months to play against the Poms in England. "It actually doesn't bother me at all right now, we are looking forward, that's history." When Nathan Bracken joked in 2005 that he was taught the same trick in county cricket as Trescothick used and suspected the English were doing it during the Ashes, he was howled down. Swing bowler Jones was outraged and accused Bracken of "sour grapes". "I can't believe that a guy who didn't even play in the series has come out with such a comment," he said at the time. "If he'd been someone that had played in the series then fair enough because he might have seen something." Bracken sheepishly withdrew the comment but at least one Australia player who was on tour for the Test series claimed it was common knowledge. It is not the first time England has been exposed for cheating by tampering with the ball during the modern era. Former England captain Mike Atherton was caught on camera taking dirt out of his pocket and rubbing it on the ball against South Africa at Lord's in 1994 and all hell broke loose. There were calls for his sacking as skipper. Atherton's defence to the England management was that he was not seeking to alter the condition of the dry and roughed-up ball, but to maintain the condition it had already reached. But the excuse differed from what he had told match referee Peter Burge that it was to dry his sweaty hands, so team management fined Atherton. Far from being disturbed by the great sweets scandal, former skippers Allan Border and Tony Greig thought it was funny. The former Australia and England captains didn't believe the ICC would strip England of their 2005 Ashes victory in the same way Olympic cheats get stripped of their medals. "Over the last century or so bowlers have been fiddling around with balls using all sorts of stuff," Border said. "I don't think that (Trescothick's revelation) is earth-shattering news. Bowlers have used saliva, sun screen, lip balm, all sorts of things. "Going back to Keith Miller's day there were suggestions they used hair cream on the ball." Greig supported Border's view. "Things like lip ice have been around since I was playing schoolboy cricket," Greig said. "There have been substances used on cricket balls ever since I've known the game." Border and Greig believed the greater problem was bowlers illegally roughing up one side of the ball to aid reverse swing. Conventional swing is when the shiny side of the ball is held on the opposite side to the direction the bowler wants it to move through the air, with the seam pointing slightly in the direction the ball is to swing so it acts like a rudder. Reverse swing, developed by great Pakistan fast bowlers such as Imran Khan and Wasim Akram, is when the sides are swapped as the ball gets older and ball seems to swing much later and further. Scientists who have examined cricket ball swing believe the air pressure on the rough, dry side is less than that of the shiny side and so therefore moves through the air more quickly. There is a widely held belief in cricket that bowlers sometimes deliberately and illegally rough the ball up to encourage reverse swing. This is what umpires Darrell Hair and Billy Doctrove charged Pakistan with during that infamous forfeited Test against England two years ago. The charge was subsequently dismissed but Pakistan captain Inzamam Ul Haq was suspended for refusing to play once the charge had been laid. "The big thing is the scratching on one side, making it shiny on one side and rough on the other so it swings," Border said. "The scratching of the ball is the big issue rather than what goes on the shiny side. "It can happen naturally and the bowlers are very good at enhancing that a little bit. That's why reverse swing is such a big issue these days."

[Kartikey]

When the English do it, they say everyone else does it so its okay. When the Asians do it, they call it cheating. ***ing Hypocrites. I hope we destroy them in the Tests and ODI's, then that will shut atherton and hussain up.

[f.b.m]

huh? Indian bowlers were not getting reverse swing? i (and dhondy)must have been watching some other game http://indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=110616&postcount=14 "reversed like a banana"

Sorry, but that just wasnt reverse swing. Maybe they used mints or whatever else to aid conventional swing (I dont have any evidence to say that they did) but look at this video at about 6:50. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2GFkxjWqyM]YouTube - England v India 2nd Test 07 Day 4 P2[/ame] The dry, rough side of the ball is facing the leg side and the ball came in to the right hander. The exact opposite of what happens with reverse swing (where the ball goes with the shiny side). btw: I recommend the whole video if you want to watch some good cricket in general.

[Dravid]

^^he is just jealous man.. btw tresco saying, he used em during 2001 ashes.. not 05 one.. hmmmm 2001 they lost 1-4.. nice job for keeping the shine on the ball :hahaha:

[kablooee87]

Sorry' date=' but that just [i']wasnt reverse swing. Maybe they used mints or whatever else to aid conventional swing (I dont have any evidence to say that they did) but look at this video at about 6:50. YouTube - England v India 2nd Test 07 Day 4 P2 The dry, rough side of the ball is facing the leg side and the ball came in to the right hander. The exact opposite of what happens with reverse swing (where the ball goes with the shiny side). btw: I recommend the whole video if you want to watch some good cricket in general.

You're right, that was some good cricket. The last two English summers have had good cricket in general. BTW, it looked to me like the ball was reversing huge for KP's dismissal, but imo it's kind of an irrelevant discussion.

[Kohum]

and the oscar goes to

Malik & dadarocks - this your man - the "real" pathan :hysterical::hysterical:

[Kohum]

that was not tampering...unknowningly...afridi was on the pitch and just practising his action like all bowlers do on the field.....but since it was done by an asian player...english media made a story out of it :omg:

are yaar - bowler practice their action on the field - not on the pitch. If you can see the video carefully - you can see - that he walks up to the pitch and then does his shameless practice ON the pitch. If you look more carefully at his actions, it seems like he is practicing dance steps, instead of his usual action. The so called "real pathan" at his "real" best.