Problems in Pakistan

[Guest dada_rocks]

Pakistan is in this position because it propped up a mercenary state next door which backfired on them.. I am happy though that pakistani is screwed because these same bozos if not occupied in killing pakistani army wud have been roaming around blowing themselves up in india............

[CC1981]

Do you know what does Genocide mean?

From Wikipedia : a legal definition is found in the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (CPPCG). Article 2, of this convention defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."[1] Therefore, what happened in Bangladesh most definitely qualifies as a genocide : Bengalis were indiscriminately killed by the Punjabi-led Pakistani army.

Those who were killed, were Muslim. Hardly qualify a Genocide.

Doesnt matter if Muslims were killed or hindus or atheists - indiscriminate killing in a society is genocide - familiarize yourself with the definition i posted above, as it is the officially accepted definition of genocide by every government agency in the world. Furthermore, while a lot of muslims were killed, a lot of hindus weer also killed and disproportionately more so ( hindus pre 1971 made up 15% of Bangladesh population- the genocide of Bengalis saw between 35 and 50% killed being Hindus).

But Gujarat incident 02 can be repeated anytime, because few politicial leaders who were involved in Gujarat incident 02, are still alive and walking out there free with no punishment.

And the same is true for paksitani leaders who ordered the genocide of Bengalis - they are walking scot free and atleast several politicians lost their standing in India due to the media focus on Godhra - there was no media focus in Pakistan and not a SINGLE pakistani lost his/her job due to the genocide. And the same can happen anytime in Pakistan too- and i predict it would happen identically with the Balochis because the Balochis want nothing to do with the Punjabi-dominated Pakistani state, which robs the mineral-rich Balochistan blind just to keep the massively bloated and largely worthless population of Punjab alive and kicking.

They are out there, preeching Hindu people to increase the hatred on Muslim people furthermore.

There has been no official cry from any hindu body to go kill muslims - what they have done (and rightly so) is highlight the extremely barbaric history and conduct of muslim leaders in the past and in the present and contrasted it with their far more civilized pagan ancestors. There however are several muslim organisations - in Pakistan and in India- who OPENLY call for killing of 'kaffirs'. There simply is no comparison as to which side is stroking the fire. I hate to generalize, but there is most definitely a problem with Islam and Islam alone here : for where there be muslims, there be trouble. Britain has had problems, we've had problems, From Bosnia to Chechnya to Australia to Commie China - the common link in violence, terrorism and secessionism is presence of significant Islamic population. Yet, there are over 30 million hindus living overseas from India - thats THIRTY MILLION- and there has been ZERO case of hindu-instigated,funded or participated insurgency,terrorism or secessionism- South Africa, Guyana, Fiji, Britain, Canada,Qatar,UAE,Bahrain,Oman etc. all host significant hindu populace, yet there has been ZERO problems with militant hinduism. Sorry, but the proof is in this fact alone : Islam and Islam alone is the 'kabaab mein haddi', where the kabaab is a happy society.

[Desi Cartman]

TBH I dont think MalikBhai hates india or ever starts a thread about political stuff. So Malik you are one of the few who wanna make a change and move on .. Good on you .

[suraj]

"Those who were killed, were Muslim. Hardly qualify a Genocide. " Oye malik, what kinda stupid statement is that??? Can you also respond to CC's point that why is it that wherever there are Muslims also these terrorism problems crop up all over the world? Some ignorant Hindus committing riots in India is also a crime but you don't see problems all over the world anywhere close in magnitude to those caused by Muslims despite such a huge population of Hindus spread all over the world- why?? The answer is that while there may be genuine simple Muslim folks worshipping Allah and trying to live a good life, the Islamic world in great numbers has really downgraded themselves into a bunch of goons who have been brainwashed into killing people & spreading mayhem so that the tyrannical, chauvinistic and highly conservative Islamic laws can be used all over the world. I mean, isn't it a joke for the Islamic world that a country like Pakistan with all its insistence on using "religion first" in state affairs, sports etc etc is considered a "moderate" Islam nation by the western world- it shows the frame of reference and the widespread problem of the religion itself!!!

[Predator_05]

The problem with Pakistan is that it's full of pakis.

[Sachinism]

The problem with Pakistan is that it's full of pakis.

:hysterical:

[CC1981]

ooohh baby groovy :giggle: :hysterical: DR babbu .... apna kaam idhar hogaya ... we iz phired bro ... :cantstop:

In that case you never had a kaam to begin with. From DAY1 i have said that Islam is a big problem - what inexperienced (in worldly matters) and closeminded brainwashed hinduvtas like you,DR and Sandy fail to understand is that my problem with your type is the prescription you guys offer for Islam - unrealistic options that stem from frustration and childish fantasies (such as kick all muslims outta india, destroy pakistani army -nuclear weapons and all- utterly, all muslims are guilty by default etc). I draw the line between ideology and people, since all people arnt equally ideological. That is where you hinduvta types are fall down funny with your hatred, bigotry and complete lack of understanding of ground realities. But then again, i dont find it a coincidence either that of the three hinduvta gurus here, you and sandy have links to the military. Afterall, such dumb comments are expected from the military types, given that militaries the world over are goons with weapons and believe in 'shoot first, ask questions/understand issues later'.

[CC1981]

he has no problems with Sharia ?

Definitely not me - if so, show me where i've defended Sharia. What i said (and what you continue to misrepresent) is that i have no problems with the way Sharia is practiced in certain nations.

and that the Paigambar was not a bad man

Who is paigambar ? You mean Mo ? Yes, i stand by that he isnt a bad man. His conduct and accomplishments are definitely above average for its times. I also said that I respect the paigambar as an ubermensch. There is an admirable quality in accomplishment in itself- whatever you accomplish (good,bad,neutral) for that speaks of a person above the masses in his/her ability to influence the world and get his/her way. Definitely admirable considering that the vast majority of us leave very little mark on this world. I merely said that the paigambar's humanity doesnt measure up once you raise the bar to 'maharishi- mahasakha' status- ie, he falls short when the bar is raised to the Adi Shankara, Vivekananda, Buddha,Mahavira, Jesus standard. And i don't see how saying that is saying he is 'evil, considering that if the bar is raised that high for one's concern, dedication and love for all humanity, each and every one of us here would fall short of that too - if so, then we are all 'evil' ?

and that most Muslims are peaces loving and patriotic types just like us with only a few nut cases amongst them that cause a bad name yada yada yada ?

That i have seen no reasons to change, given that in our nation, there are 155+ million muslims with the overwhelming majority of them just going about their lives in the same fashion as you and me, that there are more muslims in the armed forces and security forces working for our nation's security over the # who are blowing stuff up, etc. My issue with you hinduvta types has fundamentally been the bigoted nature of you folks where you cannot see that most people ( of ANY religion) arnt philosophers - they are ritualists. Ie, they follow rituals differently ( you pray, he prostrates,etc) but beyond that, the majority of humanity is the same. You take valid issues present in the criticism of Islam and apply it to ALL/majority of muslims as if they are guilty. You are the type who'd hate me if i were a muslim simply coz some muslim in kashmir blew himself up. The quasi-racist tendencies and bigotry displayed by the hinduvta ( in which hinduvta and hinduism has quite a long history of 'accomplishments' ) is what i have an issue with, vatz.

your solution of evicting 800+ Millions is supposedly very honourable how ?

You sir, are a categoric liar. **MY** solution ? I've never said a word about evicting 800 million plus - i said that you folks might as well give up and get moving, given that your 'bhaarat-mata' is fooked anyways. Maybe not in our lifetimes, but in the lifetimes of your grand children or great grandchildren, your bharat-mata will be dead. Dead as in extinct as a dodo. Ganga will run dry for all but the monsoon years, so will the 100s of rivers in the north, the coastal areas of TamilNad, Andhra, Orissa,Bangla, Kerala will be gone and roughly 500 million Indians will be forced to move because where they are residing will be either under the sea or fast turning into registan. You asked for proof and i showed you proof- and if you need proof for that, you must live a very blinkered existence to've not heard or read about global warming and the rising sea levels around the world. Remember, when it was necessary, your pyaare bhagwaan krishna too told his people to move. As such, you and the other hinduvta's blinkered existence, where you keep fighting for religious issues and keep proliferating like flies will lead to far more death and destruction than following the simple, logical course of ' stop breeding like rats NOW and start looking for a way outta India'.

[seedhi]

Definitely not me - if so, show me where i've defended Sharia. What i said (and what you continue to misrepresent) is that i have no problems with the way Sharia is practiced in certain nations. Who is paigambar ? You mean Mo ? Yes, i stand by that he isnt a bad man. His conduct and accomplishments are definitely above average for its times. I also said that I respect the paigambar as an ubermensch. There is an admirable quality in accomplishment in itself- whatever you accomplish (good,bad,neutral) for that speaks of a person above the masses in his/her ability to influence the world and get his/her way. Definitely admirable considering that the vast majority of us leave very little mark on this world. I merely said that the paigambar's humanity doesnt measure up once you raise the bar to 'maharishi- mahasakha' status- ie, he falls short when the bar is raised to the Adi Shankara, Vivekananda, Buddha,Mahavira, Jesus standard. And i don't see how saying that is saying he is 'evil, considering that if the bar is raised that high for one's concern, dedication and love for all humanity, each and every one of us here would fall short of that too - if so, then we are all 'evil' ? That i have seen no reasons to change, given that in our nation, there are 155+ million muslims with the overwhelming majority of them just going about their lives in the same fashion as you and me, that there are more muslims in the armed forces and security forces working for our nation's security over the # who are blowing stuff up, etc. My issue with you hinduvta types has fundamentally been the bigoted nature of you folks where you cannot see that most people ( of ANY religion) arnt philosophers - they are ritualists. Ie, they follow rituals differently ( you pray, he prostrates,etc) but beyond that, the majority of humanity is the same. You take valid issues present in the criticism of Islam and apply it to ALL/majority of muslims as if they are guilty. You are the type who'd hate me if i were a muslim simply coz some muslim in kashmir blew himself up. The quasi-racist tendencies and bigotry displayed by the hinduvta ( in which hinduvta and hinduism has quite a long history of 'accomplishments' ) is what i have an issue with, vatz. You sir, are a categoric liar. **MY** solution ? I've never said a word about evicting 800 million plus - i said that you folks might as well give up and get moving, given that your 'bhaarat-mata' is fooked anyways. Maybe not in our lifetimes, but in the lifetimes of your grand children or great grandchildren, your bharat-mata will be dead. Dead as in extinct as a dodo. Ganga will run dry for all but the monsoon years, so will the 100s of rivers in the north, the coastal areas of TamilNad, Andhra, Orissa,Bangla, Kerala will be gone and roughly 500 million Indians will be forced to move because where they are residing will be either under the sea or fast turning into registan. You asked for proof and i showed you proof- and if you need proof for that, you must live a very blinkered existence to've not heard or read about global warming and the rising sea levels around the world. Remember, when it was necessary, your pyaare bhagwaan krishna too told his people to move. As such, you and the other hinduvta's blinkered existence, where you keep fighting for religious issues and keep proliferating like flies will lead to far more death and destruction than following the simple, logical course of ' stop breeding like rats NOW and start looking for a way outta India'.

Thats an assumption which is really not well founded. India has been in existence for thousands of years as a civilization. There is no reason to believe that it will cease to exist in a couple if hundred years. As far as population goes, it is predicted that Indias population will stabilize by the next half of the 21st century and will probably decrease after that. Going by that prediction and the human ingenuity for survival your predictions seem needlessly alarming. As far as global warming eating up land, that is not true completely. As more and more water flows through our rivers, the coastline near the deltas are actually growing. Moreover land reclamation can be done to counter this effect of global warming, it has been used in several places in the world. Hong Kong built an entire airport on an artificial island. As technology improves we will actually be able to infact grow our coastlines before any such migration of population is necessary.

[CC1981]

Thats an assumption which is really not well founded. India has been in existence for thousands of years as a civilization. There is no reason to believe that it will cease to exist in a couple if hundred years.

Assumption ? Satellite imagery of each and every glacier in the himalayas receeding is paintshop job and not real ? We have over the last 25-50 years data, where glaciers have steadily retreated in the himalayas....do you think its THAT hard to calculate roughly when the glacier will completely melt away given that we haev good data on its disappearance rate ? And once that happens, then what ? where will your pavitra ganga get its waters from ? or do you think thats when some God will come and magically make the waters flow ?!? What do you think will happen to the vast ganges plain if all the water is gone ? Temperatures there hit 40C regularly.. And ironically, this is NOT the first time our society has died a horrible death : Indus Valley civilization is a good example of what happens to soceity when a river dies. We went through a 400-500 year 'dark age' where little or no records exist of and where society is at a more primitive/backwards level than IVC. Except this time, its not one river dying, its EACH AND EVERY RIVER descending from the Himalayas that are dying. So now what, vatz ?

As far as global warming eating up land, that is not true completely. As more and more water flows through our rivers, the coastline near the deltas are actually growing

CATEGORICALLY FALSE !

. Moreover land reclamation can be done to counter this effect of global warming, it has been used in several places in the world. Hong Kong built an entire airport on an artificial island. As technology improves we will actually be able to infact grow our coastlines before any such migration of population is necessary.

Sonny, i am an engineer, what you are talking about is utterly idiotic. Economy of scale is an issue here. It already costs an arm and a leg for even the RICHEST of nations to build a 2km by 2km island for airports. And you mean to say that a third world nation like India will reclaim THOUSANDS OF SQUARE KMs of land from the sea ? Entire Caveri delta, mahanadi deta, krishna delta, Bhagirathi delta (ALL of which are going to be under sea in another 100-150 years) will be 'reclaimied' ?!? Sorry, what you are proposing is as ridiculous as making a city on the moon.' If you are smart, you should focus on the parts of the mahabharat where Krishna talked of relocating ENTIRE populations at a time - its time to abandon a sinking ship that is India...or else you too will perish. Thats the bottomline, unfortunately.

[seedhi]

Assumption ? Satellite imagery of each and every glacier in the himalayas receeding is paintshop job and not real ? We have over the last 25-50 years data, where glaciers have steadily retreated in the himalayas....do you think its THAT hard to calculate roughly when the glacier will completely melt away given that we haev good data on its disappearance rate ? And once that happens, then what ? where will your pavitra ganga get its waters from ? or do you think thats when some God will come and magically make the waters flow ?!? What do you think will happen to the vast ganges plain if all the water is gone ? Temperatures there hit 40C regularly.. And ironically, this is NOT the first time our society has died a horrible death : Indus Valley civilization is a good example of what happens to soceity when a river dies. We went through a 400-500 year 'dark age' where little or no records exist of and where society is at a more primitive/backwards level than IVC. Except this time, its not one river dying, its EACH AND EVERY RIVER descending from the Himalayas that are dying. So now what, vatz ? CATEGORICALLY FALSE ! Sonny, i am an engineer, what you are talking about is utterly idiotic. Economy of scale is an issue here. It already costs an arm and a leg for even the RICHEST of nations to build a 2km by 2km island for airports. And you mean to say that a third world nation like India will reclaim THOUSANDS OF SQUARE KMs of land from the sea ? Entire Caveri delta, mahanadi deta, krishna delta, Bhagirathi delta (ALL of which are going to be under sea in another 100-150 years) will be 'reclaimied' ?!? Sorry, what you are proposing is as ridiculous as making a city on the moon.' If you are smart, you should focus on the parts of the mahabharat where Krishna talked of relocating ENTIRE populations at a time - its time to abandon a sinking ship that is India...or else you too will perish. Thats the bottomline, unfortunately.

All I am saying is that technology is also improving. You say water is going to be scarce, yet we have witnessed the biggest flood in Bihar over the last few days. India has plentiful water resources, only they need to be managed well. This is not what I am saying - this is what people in the know have to say - what is needed is better management. Here is an article that says that satellite data confirms that Bangladesh is actually gaining land due to deposits from rivers. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7532949.stm Overall, I think you are being too pessimistic. It will become technologically feasible to reclaim land from the sea. Reclamation was done on the Mumbai coast as well. There is no reason why this cannot be repeated all over India on a larger scale, especially later in 21st century when resources are at hand. Ofcourse, India will have to get its act together soon. But it can be done, and certainly the situation is not as hopeless. You may have given up on India, but I have much more confidence in the people of India.

[sandtest]

The problem with Pakistan is that it's full of pakis.

That is SO VERY WELL said....within one line you captured the whole essence...Kudos. To understand the Paki mentality one has to go down to the time of Jinnah and comprehend what and how wannabe arab, martial race delusion, one paki soldier = 10 vegitarian Indian soldiers kind of psyche originates, and how well it has been fed in an average paki mind. A lot of Indians are often deceived by progressive talks of a handlful of internet pakistanis, living in abroad, exposed to western education. But the fact is totally different. Pakistan is a society where not just political parties but within army Islam plays a very prominent and central role....It's more purerer, radical and wahhabish that it will put behind a Saudi Arabia in islamic competition. There is some reason why every two bit hussler from Peshawar till Lahore will shout ....Pakistan ka matlab kyaa -- la ilaah illallah

[gs]

The problem with Pakistan is that it's full of pakis.

:hysterical:

[Guest dada_rocks]

ooohh baby groovy :giggle: :hysterical: DR babbu .... apna kaam idhar hogaya ... we iz phired bro ... :cantstop:

When we are not around he sounds more and more like us:hysterical:.. One thing is sure deep down he too is a nice guy just can't concede when.. Jawani ka khoon hai, dhire dhire sikh jayega wo bhi:hysterical:

[Guest dada_rocks]

The problem with Pakistan is that it's full of pakis.

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: How do you come up with these marvels sir

[Guest dada_rocks]

That is SO VERY WELL said....within one line you captured the whole essence...Kudos. To understand the Paki mentality one has to go down to the time of Jinnah and comprehend what and how wannabe arab, martial race delusion, one paki soldier = 10 vegitarian Indian soldiers kind of psyche originates, and how well it has been fed in an average paki mind. A lot of Indians are often deceived by progressive talks of a handlful of internet pakistanis, living in abroad, exposed to western education. But the fact is totally different. Pakistan is a society where not just political parties but within army Islam plays a very prominent and central role....It's more purerer, radical and wahhabish that it will put behind a Saudi Arabia in islamic competition. There is some reason why every two bit hussler from Peshawar till Lahore will shout ....Pakistan ka matlab kyaa -- la ilaah illallah

was watching the debate on idiot box over orisa fiasco.. some evngelist called`Hindu organizations hate preachers.. Ram madhav asks a simple question: So we have a religion which thinks anyone who doesn;t accept jesus is hell bound.. and we have a religion which thinks all paths lead to same god and former accuses later of hater-mongering.. What an irony and bigger irnoy is that socalled intellectual class buys this preposterous proclamation.......

[THX_1138]

if you put feces into your soup, it will taste like ****... pakistan put considerable ideological feces into itself: first the unchecked growth of madrassas, then the unchecked influence of the taliban, then the growth of radical islam and its concurrence with the decline in democracy, and finally access to guns and drugs under the ruse that it makes them more "macho"... what you have now is a cesspool of waste. the nation has no credible industry, few universities, little democracy outside punjab and sindh and yet it obsesses over religion. dont get me wrong, were were headed down the same path... obsessed with our past, and religion and clung onto our so called "culture" while resisting change... then economic reforms occurred (cant give credit to manmohan because the reforms were an inevitability rather than an innovative move) and in less than a decade people realized that if you study, if you work hard, you can make enough money to realize all your crazy dreams. and thus, the different fate of india.

[THX_1138]

was watching the debate on idiot box over orisa fiasco.. some evngelist called`Hindu organizations hate preachers.. Ram madhav asks a simple question: So we have a religion which thinks anyone who doesn;t accept jesus is hell bound.. and we have a religion which thinks all paths lead to same god and former accuses later of hater-mongering.. What an irony and bigger irnoy is that socalled intellectual class buys this preposterous proclamation.......

hinduism is accused of a lot more mate... ideologically, i am indebted to hinduism as it is not a "curtain religion"... it embraces new ideas and which it is full of its own kind of ****, it is not as divisive and it does not inhibit free thought as much as islam does. which is why i was able to explore and eventually recognize the futility of religion. which is why there are more atheists in india than there are in pakistan... and consequently, it also explains why were are willing to embrace a physics textbook whereas our neighbors are willing to embrace a bomb jacket. though i would not mind 72 virgins... i would do them till my dick fell off.

[CC1981]

back again to your usual cocktail of pedantry , lying and wordplay ehh ? HTF does a overwhelmingly peacfull population leave a trail of death destruction invariably ? what happens now to your post above where you said :

Oye, the wordplay,pedantry etc. is from your part. I've told you this many times before, only for you tuck your tail firmly between your legs and run away. HTF does an overwhelmingly peaceful population leave a trail of death /destruction invariably ? VERY easily i say ! My contention is simple : Islam's radical side has a minority following amongst Muslim and by simple numbers, the overwhelming majority are the silent majority (like ALL humanity is - you don't have 100s of millions of hindus,christians or whatever ideology go around peddling it actively, activism is always the route of the few. Most people are interested in stuff like money,friends, life, sex, blahblah). But given the overall population figure, even if merely 10% were the jihadi types, that'd give about 15 million jihadis in India - a number, which is easily larger than the sizes of entire armies (including the logistics/non-combatant folks) and therefore, is just as effective as an army in realizing its larger goals. Hell, they are more effective because of their lack of formal and public nature, meaning they can hide their operations easily amidst civillian population while the army cannot. This alone answers your 'how can minority of them cause so much problem' query. However, if you contend that it is the MAJORITY of muslims who sympathise with terrorism and actively back it, the onus is on YOU to prove that case, as the fundamental doctrine of your own pyaare religion is 'innocent until proven guilty'. Show me where/which passages of your holy textbook says collarateral damage of any amount is acceptable for ideological purposes. You are yet to prove that the majority of muslims in Kashmir want independence, majority are terrorist sympathizer, etc etc. You try to twist the eviction of the KPs as an example, but how the **** does it prove that majority were complicit ? All it takes is one family in the mohollah to kill or threaten to kill on these grounds and most sane people (of ANY religion) will move out if targeted and are the minority. The onus is on to YOU to prove that the majority of muslims are involved with terrorism at some level or another and until you prove that with any sort of clarity, your stance will remain that of a bigot, who discriminates against muslims irrespective of the personal views/actions of the said muslims. You hinduvta patronizers have missed one essential point : i've not disagreed with the causality thesis ( all i've said is the hinduvtas, like any extremist ideological school have the tendency to over-dramatize, over-play their sob-story), only with the solution your types prescribe.

[Guest dada_rocks]

hinduism is accused of a lot more mate... ideologically, i am indebted to hinduism as it is not a "curtain religion"... it embraces new ideas and which it is full of its own kind of ****, it is not as divisive and it does not inhibit free thought as much as islam does. which is why i was able to explore and eventually recognize the futility of religion. which is why there are more atheists in india than there are in pakistan... and consequently, it also explains why were are willing to embrace a physics textbook whereas our neighbors are willing to embrace a bomb jacket. though i would not mind 72 virgins... i would do them till my dick fell off.

that's the beauty of hinduism you can do whatever you want you need not fear for ur life.. i have been criticising style of worship since age of 14 and am yet to face and threat to my life...