Cooley v/s Prasad

[umpire]

Bowling Coaches. We know cooley's heroics that he did with English attack. Australian pacers have looked really lacklustre compared to Indian counterpart. Mind you Mohali wicket is lifeless for the pacers. But Zaheer and Ishant have found reverse swing. Credit should go to Prasad. Our pacers seems to have plans and execute them perfectly these days. Prasad has Zaheer, Ishant, Munaf, RP, Sresanth, Pathan Ton of talent there for him to work on. Prasad has outplayed his counter part..

[flamy]

Prasad has outdone himself. I dunno if he was this good a bowler. But, there has hardly been a coach who was also a great player, or were there? Either way, he has really set some solid groundwork in the bowling dept. :icflove:

[Ian Pont]

Interesting that you mention both Cooley and Prasad as if they make the genuine difference to fast bowlers. The problem is that coaches at THIS level don't really do any meanigful coaching. Consider it... what International fast bowler needs to be told where to bowl the ball or how to hold it? So this leaves technical coaching, which both Cooley (by his own admission) and Prasad, are not experts in. Plus of course, the tech work (real work) is done below this level. If you have to correct actions this late in the day, you'd need to question the coaching methods. As someone involved with all levels of players from Dale Steyn, Darren Gough through to schoolboy, I can assure you the nationally appointed coaches do not do the good work other than 'talk' to players. This is bot least due to the fact they have so little time with the players anyway.

[Fontaine]

Interesting that you mention both Cooley and Prasad as if they make the genuine difference to fast bowlers. The problem is that coaches at THIS level don't really do any meanigful coaching. Consider it... what International fast bowler needs to be told where to bowl the ball or how to hold it? So this leaves technical coaching, which both Cooley (by his own admission) and Prasad, are not experts in. Plus of course, the tech work (real work) is done below this level. If you have to correct actions this late in the day, you'd need to question the coaching methods. As someone involved with all levels of players from Dale Steyn, Darren Gough through to schoolboy, I can assure you the nationally appointed coaches do not do the good work other than 'talk' to players. This is bot least due to the fact they have so little time with the players anyway.

I disagree. Ishant Sharma/RP Singh needed to be told how to release the ball with correct wrist position. In interviews with Prasad he has mentioned this many times during and after tours to England/Australia where our bowlers did well. Especially with the youngers guys like Ishant who didn't play a lot of domestic/first class cricket either. Fast bowling in India is still not what I would call a mature discipline so a lot of learning how to bowl and where to bowl takes place at the national/international level. If you doubt that then all you have to do is look at someone like Sreesanth who has a wild bowling delivery action not to mention other flaws in his game.

[Ian Pont]

I disagree. Ishant Sharma/RP Singh needed to be told how to release the ball with correct wrist position. In interviews with Prasad he has mentioned this many times during and after tours to England/Australia where our bowlers did well. Especially with the youngers guys like Ishant who didn't play a lot of domestic/first class cricket either. Fast bowling in India is still not what I would call a mature discipline so a lot of learning how to bowl and where to bowl takes place at the national/international level. If you doubt that then all you have to do is look at someone like Sreesanth who has a wild bowling delivery action not to mention other flaws in his game.

My view is that Indian fast bowlers like to credit a certain coach by saying, ''I had no clue what to do until I was told by XYZ where to bowl or how to bowl it''. I find this both amazing and quite ridiculous. Even the MOST BASIC coaching course as a CHILD teaches you how to hold a cricket ball, and as for where to bowl the ball, those players already play first class cricket so KNOW where a line & length is. I feel the credit to a coach is given as a 'thank you' by the player for their promotion up the ladder and into a team. It takes 5 seconds to learn a wrist position. I have to also disagree with your view of Sreesanth's action as being 'wild'. He actually has one of the most controlled actions in world cricket. he just isn't aware of how to make it consistent - yet.

[bharat297]

My view is that Indian fast bowlers like to credit a certain coach by saying, ''I had no clue what to do until I was told by XYZ where to bowl or how to bowl it''. I find this both amazing and quite ridiculous. Even the MOST BASIC coaching course as a CHILD teaches you how to hold a cricket ball, and as for where to bowl the ball, those players already play first class cricket so KNOW where a line & length is. I feel the credit to a coach is given as a 'thank you' by the player for their promotion up the ladder and into a team. It takes 5 seconds to learn a wrist position. I have to also disagree with your view of Sreesanth's action as being 'wild'. He actually has one of the most controlled actions in world cricket. he just isn't aware of how to make it consistent - yet.

* Developing correct wrist position takes years. Its not simply just keeping it upright. Getting a brand new ball to swing in the direction you want it is not as easy as it sounds. It requires the seam to be slanted to either 2nd slip or fine leg (depending on the direction) and the seam must be maintained in that position. To do that you must angle the wrist slightly. This is the key difference between the Indian bowlers (who have developed this) and the Australians (who havent). Although I wouldnt attribute all of that to Prasad, because guys like Sreesanth and Pathan had very good seam positions long before Prasad became bowling coach. * Sreesanth's action is fine. I believe Sreesanth's problems are more mental. He lacks the patience to be able to chip away at a batsman. He loses focus, and tries too many things to quickly.

[sharma]

My view is that Indian fast bowlers like to credit a certain coach by saying' date=' ''I had no clue what to do until I was told by XYZ where to bowl or how to bowl it''. I find this both amazing and quite ridiculous. [b']Even the MOST BASIC coaching course as a CHILD teaches you how to hold a cricket ball, and as for where to bowl the ball, those players already play first class cricket so KNOW where a line & length is. I feel the credit to a coach is given as a 'thank you' by the player for their promotion up the ladder and into a team. It takes 5 seconds to learn a wrist position. I have to also disagree with your view of Sreesanth's action as being 'wild'. He actually has one of the most controlled actions in world cricket. he just isn't aware of how to make it consistent - yet.

so are you saying that india has better FC and ground level infrastructure than aus? thanks lol and, if it takes 5 seconds...then how come the aussie bowlers didnt learn anything from how the indians bowled in the aussie first innings? clearly it only takes 5 seconds of viewing the recordings...

[Fontaine]

My view is that Indian fast bowlers like to credit a certain coach by saying, ''I had no clue what to do until I was told by XYZ where to bowl or how to bowl it''. I find this both amazing and quite ridiculous. Even the MOST BASIC coaching course as a CHILD teaches you how to hold a cricket ball, and as for where to bowl the ball, those players already play first class cricket so KNOW where a line & length is. I feel the credit to a coach is given as a 'thank you' by the player for their promotion up the ladder and into a team. It takes 5 seconds to learn a wrist position. I have to also disagree with your view of Sreesanth's action as being 'wild'. He actually has one of the most controlled actions in world cricket. he just isn't aware of how to make it consistent - yet.

Fair enough. I do agree that there is a general sentiment of giving respect and thanks to elders like the bowling coach in the mindset but I'm talking about the subtle differences in the game. For example adopting a different bowling length in England to make use of the pitches there when we went to England with two fast bowlers who had never bowled there in SreeSanth/RP Singh. The same when these young guys played for the first time in Australia. It takes a good coach to adjust to those conditions, gather knowledge, even the wind conditions and relay them back to young bowlers who do not have experience of those conditions. For example, the free mantle breeze in Australia that helped our bowlers (Pathan or Ishant I think) and they took advantage of it. Now how did those bowlers know about it when they've never bowled there? Those technical corrections HAVE to come from some one and given how Kumble/Dravid wouldn't know as captain, I've heard the right things from Prasad in interviews to know they came from him. Also about Sreesanth? Which bowling action do you mean? Becase he has a couple that he changes depending on how poorly his bowling is going including his run up. That's what I meant by wild. Other than that, it's good to talk specifics about fast bowling with someone who has that kind of experience. Thanks. By the way - what did you make of Zaheer's 2nd innings performance where he got those quick wickets in short time by moving the ball in both directions? :--D