Pakistan laughs off 26/11 evidence given by US, UK

[Desi Cartman]

NEW DELHI: Pakistan has rejected evidence provided by the US and UK on involvement of its citizens in the Mumbai attacks. It has said the information provided would not stand scrutiny in any court. The evidence includes a confession by arrested terrorist Ajmal Amir Kasab but Pakistani officials have contended that since it had been obtained by Indians under duress, this could not be admissible in court. Meanwhile, India kept up the pressure on Pakistan. Foreign minister Pranab Mukherjee said on Sunday that India had not served any ultimatum to Pakistan to take action on terrorists or terror camps. However, India insisted thatPakistan eliminate all terrorist groups from its territory as it had promised.( Addressing a group in Jharkhand, Mukherjee said Pakistan should admit that terrorists involved in the Mumbai attacks came from there. "If all these things are done, then there is no problem at all," he said. "Not once, but twice Pakistan had made a commitment. Once by Musharraf and now by President Zardari. Where is the commitment? Where is the action against terrorists," he added. Telephone numbers of LeT commanders like Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi and Zarar Shah had been given, reports from Pakistan said, as well as call logs and intercepts. Both US and UK have told Pakistan that India's allegation that the LeT had masterminded the operation was correct. Officials said US and UK came armed with a much more evidence of Pakistan's complicity than even India had access to. Thanks to their superior tech-int, they gathered more evidence against Pakistan, which, incidentally they did not share with India. Pakistan's excuse now is that if it's expected to use all this evidence to put people like Lakhvi and Shah on trial, it would need testimonies from Indian witnesses, and all the mobile phones and satphones that were used for evidence. Evidently, this is a dead end-road. If and when India gives up its own information to Pakistan, it would be met with exactly the same kind of belligerence, say officials. Within India, though, as more information becomes available, officials are coming round to the view that there was substantial involvement of the army-ISI complex. "We have evidence and gave the names, not once but ten times. Pakistan had earlier accepted that the perpetrators of Mumbai attacks emanated from there. But now they are contradicting it," Mukherjee said. However, on the Mumbai attacks, he said India would give all information to Pakistan after the investigations were over. Meanwhile, Mukherjee regretted that Pakistan had gone back on its statement that Maulana Masood Azhar had been detained. He said, "The Pakistani defence minister had earlier said that the Jaish chief was under house arrest. Now some others say he is not in Pakistan. Who is telling the truth? It is Pakistan which has to tell that.

Link does this mean that Pak just showed India :finger: ....

[Guest dada_rocks]

who wud not show middle finger to these idiots of upa whose own cabine minister keeps negating their line.. we have jokers in power

[vadodaravictor]

mere murgi ki ek hi tang:winky:

[Bumper]

DR, what would do man ? Would you wage a war ? Its easy to criticize our politicians, but given the current situation, we need to either wage a war or sit & hope for the best. Both come at a high cost.

[Desi Cartman]

IMO pakistan has handled this whole issue pretty well . They have put India under pressure by the army build up and at the same time showed US that they cant provide them support on the western border unless US supports them ...

[Rajiv]

I think 911 couldn't have happened without these master tacticians as well We are unfortunate geographically to be around such people, but I believe their ideology and internal issues will someday finish them

[suraj]

Makes one's blood boil

[Bumper]

But the visibility and bad PR generated by this attack has offset quite a bit of ISI's reputation. I expect the terrorist activities to pause at least for a while.

[Ram]

In today's world of high-end communications technology, satellite transmissions and imaging, incredibly state-of-the-art spying equipment, its unbelievably hard to get away with your crimes. The only bunch of people who still think that Pakistan didnt have anything to do with the Mumbai attacks are.... err.. Pakistanis. Let them keep living in delusion and denial.

[Guest dada_rocks]

DR' date=' what would do man ? Would you wage a war ? Its easy to criticize our politicians, but given the current situation, we need to either wage a war or sit & hope for the best. Both come at a high cost.[/quote'] there are other options too.. we can bleed them by million cuts too.. there is no need for outright war.. break off all the relatineship with pakistan.. stop all that cbm measues taken.. start raw wing targeted to fan all kind of subversive activity inside pakistan.. there are million ways to bring them to knees

[Desi Cartman]

BTW pakis are making some progress

SLAMABAD: The Pakistan Taliban have announced that they will enforce Sharia or Islamic law across the northwestern Aurakzai tribal region and banned women from visiting markets.:giggle: The Taliban recently announced the enforcement of Sharia in the lower regions of Aurakzai Agency, almost a week after similar measures were imposed in upper parts of the semi-autonomous region. The militants are using loudspeakers in mosques to announce their decree and are asking people to bring their problems to “Taliban Islamic courts”, which have been set up in Mashti Meela and Feroze Khel. These problems will be resolved according to Islamic law, the Daily Times reported. The Taliban have banned women from visiting markets and imposed a complete ban on TVs, CDs and video centres in Aurakzai Agency. Women can visit markets for medical treatment but only if they are accompanied by a male elder.

[Bumper]

Au contraire .... this will only embolden the Jihadis now that the trial baloon has acheived its objective. To understand this you need to understand how Lahori Logic works ... See if you really really want to get to the absolute very bottom of this you need to understand that the JIhadi mindset which was very lucidly explained by Sir Salman Rushdie as follows ... " the world needs to understand that this is a war between those who aspire for the pleasures of life right here right now and those who dont mind dying to savour those pleasures"

Offer a solution, then. What would you do ? Pakistan will not budge for economic or trade sanctions. War is not an option (as those crazy idiots wont mind using nukes). The only way out is to somehow convince the UN for an internationally backed strike, but Chiina will veto it. What other option is left ?

[Bumper]

Pak is no longer a mosquitoe that it was in 1971. They can inflict significant damage on us in a war and given the mindset of those crooked idiots they will risk their annihilation and use nukes against us. War at this time point is the worst alternative. A better option would be to covertly conduct similar activities to destabilize Pakistan. There is enough resentment within Pakistan to entertain such thoughts, or better get US & UK to back our strikes.

[Desi Cartman]

BTW it will be interesting to know what is BJP's advise on this issue ... what do they want the govt to do ?

[Desi Cartman]

Excellent article here Wake Up, Washington

In spite of the Indian government’s cautious formulation that the Mumbai terrorist attacks were carried out by elements from Pakistan, it is becoming increasingly clear that the operation should have been cleared at the highest operational level in that country. The refusal of the Pakistani government — which means the Pakistani army — to investigate on its own, the background of the captured terrorist, Ajmal Kasab, and the other nine terrorists who were killed in Mumbai, the internationally available intercepts of telephonic conversations between the terrorists, during their operations, and their handlers in Pakistan — and just repeating demands for proof from India — shows that Pakistan is shielding the perpetrators of these attacks. The Pakistani expectation that India would militarily react to this provocation has not been realised. Consequently the Pakistani army and the civil government it dominates are trying to whip up war hysteria. The objective appears to be to create a crisis either before president-elect Barack Obama takes over in America, or in the immediate aftermath of his inauguration, by which attention on Pakistan’s non-cooperation with the US anti-Taliban campaign can be diverted. The US-Pakistan alliance to deal with the Taliban is an unnatural one, doomed to failure from the beginning. The ejection of the Taliban from Afghanistan was the result of Northern Alliance troops sweeping down to Kabul and Kandahar with US air support. Pakistan’s contribution to that war was to extricate the al-Qaeda leadership and provide it a safe haven in Pakistan. In the last seven years, after drawing $10 billion of aid from the US, Pakistan has permitted the Afghan Taliban leader, Mullah Omar, to function publicly from Quetta and has ensured the resurgence of the Taliban not only in Afghanistan but in Pakistan as well. The Pakistani government and the army have yielded control over the tribal areas to the Taliban. This happened as Pervez Musharraf rigged the elections of 2002 in favour of extremists. The combat capability of both the Afghan and the Pakistani Taliban grew under the watch of General Kayani when he was director-general of the Inter Services Intelligence. Pakistan’s strategic objective is to mire the US and NATO forces into a protracted war in Afghanistan, tire them out and compel them to leave Afghanistan. Perhaps taking these developments into account American strategists are now thinking of two alternative northern supply routes to Afghanistan. One route is likely to be via Russian territory and the other via Georgia, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Kazakstan, Uzbekistan and Tadjikistan. It is obvious that the first route will need the active, and the latter route tacit, support of Russia. Russia has a vital interest in the elimination of the Taliban and Islamic extremism in Central Asian Republics. It is not unlikely that Obama may be able to negotiate an agreement with Russia for this purpose by making necessary concessions to Russian concerns. The US is also planning to enlarge facilities at Bagram airbase and develop facilities for long-term stationing of US and NATO troops in Afghanistan, and raise and train an expanded Afghan National Army. Since all that would take time Pakistan has signalled to America its ability to wreck supply routes to Kabul by blowing up a number of US convoys in the vicinity of Peshawar in the immediate wake of the Mumbai terrorist attack. Both were signals to America. If there is no major Indo-Pakistan crisis and if the US intensifies its operations in Afghanistan and increases missile strikes into Pakistan, what would be the reaction of the Pakistani Taliban in the tribal areas vis-a-vis the US, and the Pakistani army and government which will be seen as collaborators? Will US convoys with military supplies to Kabul be safe? If the Pakistani army, either under the excuse of an Indian threat or otherwise does not carry out its campaign in the tribal areas vigorously how will US and NATO forces deployed in Afghanistan be impacted? How will the Pakhtun population in tribal areas react to a sustained vigorous military campaign against both the Afghan and Pakistani Taliban by US and NATO forces over the next two years? Will there not be greater Talibanisation of the North West Frontier Province and a surge in fidayeen strikes elsewhere in Pakistan? When the Pakistani army and government are reluctant at present to act against the terrorist organisations how do they propose to deal with the situation as the US intensifies its anti-Taliban campaign, which is on Obama’s agenda? What will be the long-term consequence of the Taliban engaging the US, NATO and Pakistani forces in a sustained combat over a couple of years on Pakhtun cohesion and identity on both sides of the Durand line, and its impact on the territorial integrity of Pakistan? Will Pakistan be allowed to continue its strategy of milking the US for money while evading confronting the Taliban as it has succeeded in doing over the last seven years? It appears that the American strategic establishment and its Indian interlocutors have not thought through these issues. Possibly, the Pakistani army has thought through them and decided to wreck the proposed US surge in Afghanistan by creating a major Indo-Pak crisis. The Mumbai terrorist attacks are a challenge not only to India but also to the US. Washington does not display adequate signs of having realised this.

[kumble_rocks]

they are keeping a low profile because no-action from Kangress will be beneficial to them in the upcomming elections.

BJP advocates no action as well. What say you now ? Read what Arun Shourie has to say , and I agree with the bold part .. That's a good start along with USA cutting off 10 billion dollar aid. The Chinese are on par with Pakistan in terms of our enemies. They are the ones who armed Pakistan especially nuclear way along with tacit support from USA. I hope you guys realize that . http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/world/asia/29india.html?ref=world Though tensions have risen in the past few days, neither India’s governing coalition led by the Congress Party nor its habitually hawkish political opposition is advocating a military confrontation with Pakistan, the country’s neighbor and archrival. Skip to next paragraph Related Pakistan Moves Troops Amid Tension With India (December 27, 2008) Pakistan Warns India Against Attack (December 26, 2008) Pakistan’s redeployment of troops late last week to its border with India, from its tribal areas in the northwest, raised fears. The troop movement came a month after the attacks in Mumbai, India’s financial capital, which India says were orchestrated by Pakistan-based militants. Fear of a conflict in South Asia is unlikely to pass quickly, as Pakistan has resisted a broad crackdown on the militants India says were behind the Mumbai assault. But for India, many here say, the cost is too high, not just because both sides have nuclear arms. As an Indian official put it, “Almost anything against Pakistan would be messy.†The Mumbai attacks prompted bellicose outbursts from the Indian news media and led Indian officials to state that their “restraint†should not be mistaken for “weakness.†Yet even a surgical strike on terrorists’ training camps in Pakistan, one of the options floated in the immediate aftermath of the attack, would bring unwanted risks, according to policy makers and analysts. They say it could damage India’s economic prospects at a time when the country is vulnerable to the global downturn. Moreover, past military engagements with Pakistan strengthened the political influence of Pakistan’s Army and weakened its civilian government. Many in India say they are reluctant to do anything to undermine civilian rule there. “The Pakistan military is itching for a fight,†said Lalit Mansingh, a retired Indian ambassador to the United States. “That will give them the excuse not to carry on the fight on Afghanistan.†This time, he said, the Indian government is left with no choice but to mount a diplomatic offensive against Pakistan, in part by appealing to some of its most stalwart allies, like Saudi Arabia, China and the United States. “People realize war would be more costly in its impact,†Mr. Mansingh said. In that sense, the stakes for the next American president, Barack Obama, are potentially as high as they are for India. A new spike in tension would give the Pakistani Army the rationale it needs to refocus its energy on the eastern flank. The United States has strongly urged Pakistan to concentrate instead on fighting Islamic militants along its western border with Afghanistan. The calculus is complicated by India’s need to project itself as a world power that cannot be seen as doing nothing in the face of the terrorist attack that killed 163 people, including nearly two dozen foreigners, in Mumbai a month ago. The Indian government insists that the gunmen, including the sole survivor, were Pakistani. It has sent Pakistan a letter that India says he wrote requesting assistance from his home country. The government in Islamabad says it cannot confirm that the man is a Pakistani. Nor has Islamabad agreed to India’s chief demand to date: to turn over suspects implicated in this and prior attacks. Pakistan’s prime minister, Asif Ali Zardari, said Saturday that his government would rein in extremist groups, but “not on your démarche,†a clear reference to India. Pakistani officials have also gone on record as saying they do not want war. The troops Pakistan moved toward India, believed to number several thousand, represent only a small fraction of its military presence in the northwest. But a Taliban suicide bombing at a polling place in Pakistan on Sunday served as a reminder of the risks of taking too many troops away from battling insurgents inside the country. One of Pakistan’s leading newspapers, Dawn, editorialized Sunday that the army “just cannot afford to redeploy any large number of its troops†and thus leave “the ‘wild’ west in a free fall.†Indians point out that their most recent effort to mobilize troops on the border with Pakistan did not end terror attacks. That occurred after a suicide attack on the Indian Parliament in December 2001. It ended in early 2004 with a peace deal, which has been effectively suspended since the Mumbai strike. “You can’t fire the same bullet twice,†said Arun Shourie, a member of Parliament from the opposition Bharatiya Janata Party, or B.J.P., which was in power at the time. In a speech in Parliament last week, Mr. Shourie said neither a punitive airstrike nor a conventional troop mobilization was viable now. The only safeguard against a future attack, he offered, would be to “do a Kashmir on Pakistan†— to provide aid to insurgents against the Pakistani state inside its restive provinces, including Baluchistan in the west. The Indian official who warned that almost any action would be messy, speaking on condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to discuss strategic matters with the news media, said the 2001 standoff had accomplished little and resulted in “hundreds†of casualties among Indian troops. “It didn’t achieve anything last time,†he said. “It didn’t scare off the Pakistanis.†But whether the United States can or will lean hard enough on the Pakistani Army is hotly debated. Kanwal Sibal, a former foreign secretary of India, said he doubted that the Obama administration would impose conditions on future aid to Pakistan, which Islamabad needs to supplement its strained budget and finance military operations. Sudheendra Kulkarni, a B.J.P. leader writing in The Indian Express on Sunday, said that it was pointless to expect the United States to “fight our battle.†Yet the real crisis, argued Stephen P. Cohen, a South Asia expert at the Brookings Institution in Washington, is Pakistan’s inability to control what happens inside its territory. For India, a military strike seems unlikely to change that situation, he said. “It’s hard to find a military way of responding,†Mr. Cohen said.

[kumble_rocks]

I cry nothing else.... because you will not understand the desperartion that is causing BJP to play the same game that congress has played for 60 yrs yet no-one sees the danger. It all boils down to do you see Congress as a party that truly has the Nations interest at heart or BJP. Keep in mind that BJP never has had a majority in the parliament whereas congress has had that luxury numerous times

If you ask me personally , BJP is the lesser of the two evils although they are all looking out for themselves. That's what politicians/ political parties do. Also, keep in mind Congress under Indira Gandhi or Sanjay Gandhi was pretty tough with Pakistan ..

[sandtest]

there are other options too.. we can bleed them by million cuts too.. there is no need for outright war.. break off all the relatineship with pakistan.. stop all that cbm measues taken.. start raw wing targeted to fan all kind of subversive activity inside pakistan.. there are million ways to bring them to knees

Now this brings back ghost of another idiot who passed as Prime Minister in India -- the name is Inder Kumar Gujaral., we keep electing hundreds of such dhimmis don't we? This haraamkhor not only dismantled the "Hit squads" of RAW but made sure that any such intel. groups of India operating outside Indian soil are recalled and funding cut. M.K. Dhar former RAW head, has mentioned this in one of his articles narrating that how Gujaral was of opinion that as a Gandhian country India is better off setting an example for rest of the world to follow...:giggle: And as far as things have gone in last 5 years, UnManlymohan Singh is twin bother of Inder Kumar Gujaral in self-apology and dhimmitude and even exceeds him at some points. Honorable Manmoron Singh has shamelessly said after Mumbai Train Bombings that "Our Paki brothers are also the vitim of terror onlee". Haraamis of Kaangress don't even care to think that how much self-goal they have achieved by such statements which gives impression as if Paki terror is result of outside action inside Puki land blurring the fact that Talibanization of NWFP/FATA are Porky and ISI's bedding with Talibs and using them a sstate tool to extract money from rest of the world.

[sandtest]

If you ask me personally ' date= BJP is the lesser of the two evils although they are all looking out for themselves. That's what politicians/ political parties do. Also, keep in mind Congress under Indira Gandhi or Sanjay Gandhi was pretty tough with Pakistan ..

Let me put this straight and clear once again--- If India wants well being, safety and security of motherland, she needs to elect Narendra Modi as Next Prime Minister. Even Advani is past generation geriatic. Now I ask you a simple question --- Are you placing your full support in NAMO? As an everage Indian will you be able to rally behind a true patriotic, nationalist in Sardar Patel mode and economy/business oriented leader from same land of Gujarat which has given India Sardar Patel? or are you among those who have already fallen for psy-ops and character assassination launched by dhimmi Indian media of Padmasree Rajdeep Sardesai/Burkhaa Dutt fame. Indians in 2009 elections need to realize pronto that marxist Indian media has done a massive damage to country by maligning a great leader from Indian motherland who has all ability, vision, courage and hope to take India forward. It's sickening that today when Narendra Modi could have been our own "Barak Obama" or agent of change has been ridiculed by an evangelist lady from vatican as "merchant of death" and our Padmasdree greedy media readily gobbled it up and supported this.

[suraj]

Now this brings back ghost of another idiot who passed as Prime Minister in India -- the name is Inder Kumar Gujaral., we keep electing hundreds of such dhimmis don't we? This haraamkhor not only dismantled the "Hit squads" of RAW but made sure that any such intel. groups of India operating outside Indian soil are recalled and funding cut. M.K. Dhar former RAW head, has mentioned this in one of his articles narrating that how Gujaral was of opinion that as a Gandhian country India is better off setting an example for rest of the world to follow...:giggle: And as far as things have gone in last 5 years, UnManlymohan Singh is twin bother of Inder Kumar Gujaral in self-apology and dhimmitude and even exceeds him at some points. Honorable Manmoron Singh has shamelessly said after Mumbai Train Bombings that "Our Paki brothers are also the vitim of terror onlee". Haraamis of Kaangress don't even care to think that how much self-goal they have achieved by such statements which gives impression as if Paki terror is result of outside action inside Puki land blurring the fact that Talibanization of NWFP/FATA are Porky and ISI's bedding with Talibs and using them a sstate tool to extract money from rest of the world.

And these names are not the only ones- there are many many more idiots like IK Gujral who sit in their comfy homes and proclaim "I hate the word war" (IK Gujral's words) when morons with a hideous ideology are threatening to wipe out your very existence. There is a time and place to spread the humanity message- it should be targeted at those respecting basic human values. Then there is a time to defend yourself from the shaitans who have no other goal but to wipe you out because you don;t confirm to their religion or ideology.