triam Posted February 5, 2009 Author Posted February 5, 2009 Would the head Mullah of Mecca Ltd. be given the same treatment ? Or the head pandit of Tirupathi ? Dalai Lama doesn't count because he is a political figure and a pain in the ass for arch rival China. Mullah of MEcca is not the head of muslims, do they have one which is similar in stature to the pope or dalai lama ('THE' head of their respective religions?), similarly head pundit of tirupathi is not the head of hinduism is he? Dalai LAma is actually a big deal, just because he is a pain in the ass for China, US cannot afford to piss off China, this is not the early 90's. China is almost as powerful as the US.
triam Posted February 5, 2009 Author Posted February 5, 2009 http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/05/obama.faith.based/index.html http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/18/washington/18discrimination.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2 This is a fairly new issue, which was started by GW Bush, and there are inconsistencies with regards to this, but again this does not support christianity alone, any faith based organization be it jewish or muslim can apply and receive a grant for non-religious purposes essentially for social servics and practice hiring discriminations as per how things stand now. But the SC will get involved sooner or later to put a closure on this. Finally, the thread OP was is India secular, whic somehow changed into me defending secularism of the US govt and constitution. BB why does BJP support this crap? it just gives people ammunition to paint BJP with an orange brush agree/disagree? The ruling Bharatiya Janata Party is non-committal on whether it would support the Sena but added that they were against the celebration of Valentine's Day as it was not part of Indian culture. http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/feb/05sri-ram-senas-bizarre-vday-threat.htm
punjabi_khota Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/18/washington/18discrimination.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2 This is a fairly new issue, which was started by GW Bush, and there are inconsistencies with regards to this, but again this does not support christianity alone, any faith based organization be it jewish or muslim can apply and receive a grant for non-religious purposes essentially for social servics and practice hiring discriminations as per how things stand now. But the SC will get involved sooner or later to put a closure on this. Finally, the thread OP was is India secular, whic somehow changed into me defending secularism of the US govt and constitution. BB why does BJP support this crap? it just gives people ammunition to paint BJP with an orange brush agree/disagree? http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/feb/05sri-ram-senas-bizarre-vday-threat.htm People like these make the case for easy availability of personal firearms in India stronger. These losers wouldn't dare to touch anyone if they knew the person was packing heat.
TheBoyPlunger Posted February 8, 2009 Posted February 8, 2009 BB why does BJP support this crap? it just gives people ammunition to paint BJP with an orange brush agree/disagree? Quote The ruling Bharatiya Janata Party is non-committal on whether it would support the Sena but added that they were against the celebration of Valentine's Day as it was not part of Indian culture. BJP has a right to be against the celebration of Valentine's Day. However it must not allow the hooliganism of the Ram Sena and their kinds. Coming to the OP, India and the US are both definitely secular. There is no discrimination of people based on religion. People from all religions have been able to thrive in the system. Is the system perfect? No. The writer is obviously nit picking. To take exceptions and to use that to it say that the system is not secular is either being biased or foolish. The Constitution was written keeping in mind the ground realities at that time and a lot has changed since then and the constituion can be amended if it has the support of the people.
Guest dada_rocks Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 BJP has a right to be against the celebration of Valentine's Day. However it must not allow the hooliganism of the Ram Sena and their kinds. Coming to the OP, India and the US are both definitely secular. There is no discrimination of people based on religion. People from all religions have been able to thrive in the system. Is the system perfect? No. The writer is obviously nit picking. To take exceptions and to use that to it say that the system is not secular is either being biased or foolish. The Constitution was written keeping in mind the ground realities at that time and a lot has changed since then and the constituion can be amended if it has the support of the people. Well said people have right to have different opinion psecextremists although wud not tolerate anyone who doesn;t agree with them.. It's not the difference of opinion it's the method of expression which is being objected to.. BJP is in power in state and has not done anything to ban valentine;s days and that should tell where it stands as far as method of its disapproval is concenred.. so stop abusing BJP and smell the coffee not everyone is going to agree with your version of right moral behavious people will have and should have different views
triam Posted February 10, 2009 Author Posted February 10, 2009 Well said people have right to have different opinion psecextremists although wud not tolerate anyone who doesn;t agree with them.. It's not the difference of opinion it's the method of expression which is being objected to.. BJP is in power in state and has not done anything to ban valentine;s days and that should tell where it stands as far as method of its disapproval is concenred.. so stop abusing BJP and smell the coffee not everyone is going to agree with your version of right moral behavious people will have and should have different views A party that is supposed to be the secular answer to Congress should behave secular, they have every right to have their opinion on whatever issue however they want to, but if they have issues with some arbitrary festival based on religious reasons then they are not secular. Thats my point.
TheBoyPlunger Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 A party that is supposed to be the secular answer to Congress should behave secular' date=' they have every right to have their opinion on whatever issue however they want to, but if they have issues with some arbitrary festival based on religious reasons then they are not secular. Thats my point.[/quote'] Are you saying BJP is against Valentine's day on religious grounds?? That being against Valentine's Day makes a party communal?
Guest dada_rocks Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 A party that is supposed to be the secular answer to Congress should behave secular' date=' they have every right to have their opinion on whatever issue however they want to, but if they have issues with some arbitrary festival based on religious reasons then they are not secular. Thats my point.[/quote'] Who gives certificate to secualrism you.. Nobody has even used word religion in thsi whole episode except people like you.. they are talking about culture.. unless secualrism also dictates one can have only particualr kind of culture.. drop this tirade mate you are on sticky ground.. you have beaten more than you can cherw.
Guest dada_rocks Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 Newsflash for everyone: Any party which is not secualr can't run election in india so if some party is allowed to field candidates under its umbrella legally speaking they are secular. Yes some clowns on this board have no regard for judiciary but then they can go to hell as far as I am concerned in all thsi chaos judiciary still beats everyone else in terms of credibility.
triam Posted February 11, 2009 Author Posted February 11, 2009 Who gives certificate to secualrism you.. Nobody has even used word religion in thsi whole episode except people like you.. they are talking about culture.. unless secualrism also dictates one can have only particualr kind of culture.. drop this tirade mate you are on sticky ground.. you have beaten more than you can cherw. define secularism, define culture and what part of the culture is being wronged here. I am serious though define your version of secularism.
triam Posted February 11, 2009 Author Posted February 11, 2009 Are you saying BJP is against Valentine's day on religious grounds?? That being against Valentine's Day makes a party communal? BJP is against valentines day, what is the reason according to you? if you are national party with grand goals of secularism, why would you do this?
Lurker Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 http://outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20090129&fname=omar&sid=1 now the fun begins. You quote an article and then change the title?? Was that a conscious or unconscious thinking? Is India Secular? Hell Yeah. Wont go down with bhagwa loonies but hey....
triam Posted February 11, 2009 Author Posted February 11, 2009 You quote an article and then change the title?? Was that a conscious or unconscious thinking? Is India Secular? Hell Yeah. Wont go down with bhagwa loonies but hey.... I should have started 2 threads one with the article and one with the question though, because I really dont subscribe with that article. And I do feel to be really secular India has to do some things.
Lurker Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 Aware of Haj subsidy and Sharia ... :winky: Same old baaja hain ji?? What exactly is this Haj subsidy? What %age of Indian GDP does it end up costing India? What did it stop India, or Indian Government, from doing? Aise ki ek line na bol dein janaab. Unless you can prove that Haj subsidy has costed even 1% of the exchequer(I doubt it is even 0.01% by the way), your issue against Haj Subsidy is going to get dismissed. So over to you. Some numbers please.
Lurker Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 I can tell you that Amarnath yatra or any Hindu / Sikh / Jain / xian holy yatra subsidy provided by Bharat Sarkar is a Big fat shunya ..... but yeah Iam aware that accoring to Madrasa math both subsidies are equal only ... :winky: Well there you go, another tune from same old bajaa. This is why I stay away from Haj subsidy discussion. No-one wants to get to the bottom of the issue. Its always a "Why they and not us?". Like I mentioned earlier I would be very very surprised if it has costed India even more than 1 Rupee out of 10,000 RUpee in its coffers. So what are we arguing about?? Also the issue here is an indirect way of putting money in AI coffers. The subsidy goes directly to Air India(in form of air ticket). Take that thingy away, let Airline fight for the business and it will come down on its down. But of course I wouldnt expect the critic to focus on that part, they would focus on India is not Secular cr@polla. xxx
Lurker Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 About why there is Zero Rupees spent on other holy yatras ... According to my evil Hindu bania ganeet (and definition of Sickularism ) it should be One rupee (ignoring the population % for simplicity ) for Kaffir Hindu holy yatras No ? :hmmm: Matlab pe aap sochna yeh hai ke pahle marz(disease) kya hai iska pata mat karo. Pahle pata yeh karo ke yeh ghar number 1 mein kyun hua, ghar number 2 mein kyun nahin? :hysterical: Arre bhai saheb tab to ho gaya marz ka ilaaz. This is a no issue as far as i am concerned. Heck even after 3-4 posts on the subject you are yet to give me any number that may seem significant at all. For all you know Haj subsidy costed India as much money as Ghajini made :giggle:
Lurker Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 So according to you GoI spending 1 Rupee on Mullah Brigade is same as spending Zero rupees on Hindu yatra ? And also this is perfectly in line with the definition of Secularism ? Since you were not forthcoming I did dig up some numbers. The amount of money Indian Govt spent in 2006 was 180 crores. This would translate to a a whopping 1.8 Rs per person taking the population as 100 crores. Indian GDP is about 2800$ per annum which translates to about 134,000 Rs per annum(@48 exchange rate). So Haj subsidy = 1.8/134400 = Rs 1.33929E-05 per citizen of India. Wooohoooo isnt that worth spending this whole hatred saga in the garb of "enlightening" people??
triam Posted February 11, 2009 Author Posted February 11, 2009 I guess the 40 acre demanded by Amarnath was not worth it for some reason ehhh ? :hmmm: what is the Govts doing spending even 1 paisa on religion ? This is none of govts business. People die pf hunger in our country FFS. I agree with BB on this, why subsidies for religions. any religion for that matter.
Guest dada_rocks Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 Since you were not forthcoming I did dig up some numbers. The amount of money Indian Govt spent in 2006 was 180 crores. This would translate to a a whopping 1.8 Rs per person taking the population as 100 crores. Indian GDP is about 2800$ per annum which translates to about 134,000 Rs per annum(@48 exchange rate). So Haj subsidy = 1.8/134400 = Rs 1.33929E-05 per citizen of India. Wooohoooo isnt that worth spending this whole hatred saga in the garb of "enlightening" people?? बात कितने कि नहीं है बात ये है कि हिंदू संस्था को स्वत्नत्रता भी नहीं और इस्लामिक संस्था को सब्सिडी| और हाँ मदरसा शिक्षक को मिलाता है सरकारी पैसा. संस्कृत संस्था को शायद ही मान्यता मिलाती है.. हर गली में है मेद्रेसाहा और संस्कृत विद्यालय धुन्द्ते रह जाओगे.. और जो विद्यालय है भी उनको शिख्सकों को या तो पैसा नहीं मिलाता है कुछ को जेहन मिलाता है वो तुलना में बहुत कम मिलाता है |
Lurker Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 I guess the 40 acre demanded by Amarnath was not worth it for some reason ehhh ? :hmmm: Matlab ke hazaar saal tak kutte ki dum daalo ek steel ke pipe ke andar, bahar nikalo to tedi ki tedi. Bhai saab kam se kam numbers se to kuch skheekh lijiye. what is the Govts doing spending even 1 paisa on religion ? This is none of govts business. People die pf hunger in our country FFS. If this is none of Govt's business what was Vajpayee Govt doing?? They couldnt stop doling out the money as well, could they? The reason, as I have mentioned earlier, is not too hard to understand. Haj is undertaken by Muslims. This is one of the high point of a Muslim's life. Since the place where Haj is undertaken is outside India the GOI helps with the "PLANE TICKET". The subsidy translates to about 12,000 per person for Air India. Now any Indian American will tell you that if he only had the option to use AI there is a good chance his travel charges would go up. Heck there is a good chance you have refused AI precisely for this reason. If you want to tackle Haj subsidy a good way would be to end AI monopoly and let Indian Airline companies fight for the same. Also educate people who seem hell bent on this should educate themselves on this whole Rs 1.33929E-05 per citizen of India xxx
Recommended Posts