Quote of the Day : Dhoni

[Fontaine]

You got a point all right but there’s always the other side of the coin. This is not something that Dhoni has figured out of blue. If you look at the West Indies team you will see the casual approach doesn’t bring successes either if you don’t have the right players. West Indies players are the most casual cricketers ever. I’m not saying they don’t feel the hurt if they lose but they treat cricket like a carnival. They fear no failure and only play the way they are naturally bestowed with. Now that doesn’t bring good results does it?

Sure, but you're comparing apples to oranges. WI players have a culture of being laid back so ofcourse that sort of attitude isn't going to help from a captain.

Now coming to the team that is extremely intense, Australia. They are so intense you will not see them smile much. They are extremely tough and mince no words to put the opponents in their place. They treat every game like war. They hate losing and although they don’t fear failure they kick themselves hard when they lose. They are extreme opposite to the West Indies cricket team. Didn’t Australia produce great results being intense and hating to lose? Now then how come they aren’t winning enough? Their attitude hasn’t changed, the captain hasn’t changed but why are they struggling to win? Well, bulk of their experienced and great players has retired. In fact Australia takes it to extremes. Steve Waugh took the players to Gallipoli, a war memorial site where thousands of Aussies lost their lives in the World war to spur his players before heading to the world cup. They put themselves under immense pressure to win and they enjoyed it.

Again you're talking about a different culture. Australians are naturally confident and almost arrogant in their self belief and that sort of approach has worked for them in the past and will continue to do so. But ofcourse when you have significant losses in your best players retiring then you are going to suffer. I'm not arguing to the contrary at all.

Pressure is not really that bad. Under pressure comes some of the best moments in a sporting event. As long as the players enjoy the pressure and take it on they will do well. That again depends on how capable is the player of course. Tendulkar’s 100s in Sharjah came under extreme pressure situation where India was going to be ousted if they didn’t win the game against Australia. Lara’s 100s in the 1999 series came against the back drop of massive pressure to draw the series. There are many such instances when extreme pressure brought out the best of the capable men. Mind you these are legends of cricket and very capable of turning the table upside down. As I said before unless you have capable players there is nothing a captain can do. What is now considered as no pressure to win or lose attitude helping Indians will one day be conceived as casual or not being serious about the game when they lose a few in a row. Media just love to back the winner that is all.

I agree mate, but I'm not saying that Dhoni can achieve this without the right players. What I'm saying is that he's changing the aproach of these cricketers. In the past every series loss, every match loss was the end of the world just like every win was wildy celebrated. But what Dhoni has done is taken that out of the equation by what he's said consistently and his actions. That aproach has made the players and to a certain extent the media realize that winning and losing shouldn't be treated like it has in the past. Here's another example of what I'm talking about: Dhoni's first few months as captain and in Australia where the tour was marked with bad blood and intense media scrutiny. This is the winning moment of the CB series. What are the players doing? What's Dhoni doing? XvSpZvxV_3E Dhoni barely celebrates. He's walking around as if to say, "yeah we won, so what?" While the Aussies hang their heads in pain, the Indian players jumping wildly in chaotic scenes of celebration, Dhoni is as calm and as serene as if he's thinking about what to order for dinner later. To me that attitude and quiet confidence win or lose has greatly shaped the way the team approaches each match no matter what the pressure. To me this quote best explains Dhoni's approach: If you can keep your wits about you while all others are losing theirs, and blaming you. The world will be yours and everything in it, what's more, you'll be a man, my son. That's what I think of Dhoni, win or lose this man is confident and cool and the other players, especially the youngsters are buying into that. You only need to look at someone like Sharma who recently won man of the match against Lanka. As a young bowler finding tremendous success and reward, instead of being cheerful and delighted, Sharma was low key and just said that he should have bowled better.

[King]

Dhoni barely celebrates. He's walking around as if to say, "yeah we won, so what?" To me that attitude and quiet confidence win or lose has greatly shaped the way the team approaches each match no matter what the pressure.

I'll give you an excellent example of how media views such behaviour depending upon the team won or lost. I'm sure you will remember 1999 world cup semi finals game between Saffies and the Aussies. Despite playing a great knock Klusener ended on the losing side. Now when he went back to the dressing room and the players were down and out he asked them "Did anyone die?". About a year or two later he was sacked from the South African team as he was perceived to be a very casual cricketer and wasn't serious enough :winky: If Rahul Dravid during his tenure did what Dhoni did above, he would be labelled "Disinterested". Ganguly has been accused of being "Disinterested" many a times because he didn't do the Lords balcony act enough number of times post losing captaincy. It's all about winners in the end mate. People just love winners and whatever they do. I don't see anything wrong with that but I'm not going to get carried away. You are almost there getting carried away. Now you are attributing Sharma's gestures to Dhoni's influence. I thought this kind of backing and attributing everyone's successes to "The Captain" was only reserved for Ganguly by his fans :--D

[Fontaine]

I'll give you an excellent example of how media views such behaviour depending upon the team won or lost. I'm sure you will remember 1999 world cup semi finals game between Saffies and the Aussies. Despite playing a great knock Klusener ended on the losing side. Now when he went back to the dressing room and the players were down and out he asked them "Did anyone die?". About a year or two later he was sacked from the South African team as he was perceived to be a very casual cricketer and wasn't serious enough :winky: If Rahul Dravid during his tenure did what Dhoni did above, he would be labelled "Disinterested". Ganguly has been accused of being "Disinterested" many a times because he didn't do the Lords balcony act enough number of times post losing captaincy. It's all about winners in the end mate. People just love winners and whatever they do. I don't see anything wrong with that but I'm not going to get carried away.

That's absolutely true man. Winning cures all. But I greatly appreciate what Dhoni is trying to do and I think he absolutely realizes what you've said as he's tempered his views constantly saying that there will be times when the team is out of form and losing etc. So it's good to know that there are fans like you and I who see beyond the flimsy, shallow picture that the media portrays win or lose. I only need to look at Dhoni's example of what he does/says when he Indian team does lose to know that the man will follow his own path. :--D

[King]

That's absolutely true man. Winning cures all. But I greatly appreciate what Dhoni is trying to do and I think he absolutely realizes what you've said as he's tempered his views constantly saying that there will be times when the team is out of form and losing etc. So it's good to know that there are fans like you and I who see beyond the flimsy, shallow picture that the media portrays win or lose. I only need to look at Dhoni's example of what he does/says when he Indian team does lose to know that the man will follow his own path. :--D

Good on ya, may Dhoni be the most successful captain ever. I wouldn't mind that.

[Mr. Wicket]

I'd disagree Ravi with your WI example - that's an issue of a team full of lazy, often unmotivated players too used to losing where the laid-back attitude is the opposite of what's needed. Dhoni's got the right attitude for India. The WI team doesn't have an issue with massive media overobsession on every little aspect of selection, batting orders, field placings, whom the players are dating, etc. Every little thing with the Indian team get overanalyzed to death, and there's too much expectation on them. If WI lose, people just moan but are used to it. When India lost in the 03 World Cup to Australia in the opening round, the backlash was huge down to houses being stoned. When India lost in 07, people were gutted. In that situation; players are under too much pressure and focus. Dhoni's approach of removing some of that pressure and letting the players relax a bit more (while making sure nobody's slacking off, unlike in WI) is ideal - and we're seeing it pay off.

[King]

I'd disagree Ravi with your WI example - that's an issue of a team full of lazy, often unmotivated players too used to losing where the laid-back attitude is the opposite of what's needed. Dhoni's got the right attitude for India. The WI team doesn't have an issue with massive media overobsession on every little aspect of selection, batting orders, field placings, whom the players are dating, etc. Every little thing with the Indian team get overanalyzed to death, and there's too much expectation on them. If WI lose, people just moan but are used to it. When India lost in the 03 World Cup to Australia in the opening round, the backlash was huge down to houses being stoned. When India lost in 07, people were gutted. In that situation; players are under too much pressure and focus. Dhoni's approach of removing some of that pressure and letting the players relax a bit more (while making sure nobody's slacking off, unlike in WI) is ideal - and we're seeing it pay off.

The same lazy, unmotivated players have been able to draw a series in NZ and are on the verge of winning against the professional English outfit that carries more staff members than players. Did you think the WI players from the 70s and 80s were not casual? If they weren't that casual Richards would not have tried to muscle the ball to victory in the 1983 world cup. He got out and guess what all hell broke lose. The WI players from the 70s and 80s were so casual you wouldn't know they have turned up to play cricket. This is what I'm coming to, when they win even the casual and laid back attitude is talked about as working. When they lose a lot playing that kind of cricket they are called lazy, laid back and losers.

[Mr. Wicket]

The same lazy' date=' unmotivated players have been able to draw a series in NZ and are on the verge of winning against the professional English outfit that carries more staff members than players.[/quote'] Well, you know my thoughts about some of this English team. :winky:

Did you think the WI players from the 70s and 80s were not casual? If they weren't that casual Richards would not have tried to muscle the ball to victory in the 1983 world cup. He got out and guess what all hell broke lose. The WI players from the 70s and 80s were so casual you wouldn't know they have turned up to play cricket.

No, I don't think the players from the 70s and 80s were casual in their approach to cricket (other things, certainly, but they approached the game with a real professionalism and intensity that often is lacking in some of the players these days, bar Sarwan, Chanderpaul, Gayle and Taylor). I think the big difference between the eras is that many of the best WI players like Richards, Garner and co. had tremendous talent and flair - but had access to the county system in that time which drilled a sense of discipline and real professionalism into all the players. Richards, Marshall, Lloyd and co. combined a culture where natural flair and talent was pushed forward with one that emphasized things like regular match practice and performance and consistent hard work in the nets (often with the infrastructure for such things), and as a result they were unstoppable, with the county system making up for the shortcomings of their own domestic system and acting literally as a finishing school.

This is what I'm coming to, when they win even the casual and laid back attitude is talked about as working. When they lose a lot playing that kind of cricket they are called lazy, laid back and losers.

Well, when they get hammered in a test and the players head into the pubs/dance bars around the ground straight after, they deserve those tags. That's what would happen not that long ago. Things are changing slowly though it seems, and it's positive to see. If you remember the Sabina Park test of '04 (the Harmison 7/12, WI 47 all out), several of the WI players had gone straight from their dressing rooms post-defeat into a party and got slaughtered for it. And not all of them turned up for the nets the next day even after such humiliation. http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2004/mar/16/cricket.englandinwestindies200304 - is the incident I'm referring to. This sort of thing and stories about players skipping nets in the last few years hasn't been that uncommon. In the days of Richards and Lloyd it was. Players would enjoy a few good beers off the field, smoke a bit but they definitely wouldn't skip out on practice sessions to party or start dancing around straight after a big defeat. [Glad to see you posting more again Ravi, hope you've got a bit more time on your hands now with the cricket ahead. And good to be getting into these sorts of discussions again.]

[CricketSchool]

I kinda disagree with that, I believe match practice is more important than practice sessions Talking from personal experience, I don't think practice sessions can substitute for actual match situations, being out there in the middle is a big difference.

I agree...but good coaches and captains create match situations in practice that replicate match situations for players to learn

[Show_stopper]

I remember one particular quote from a Dhoni interview with which i was really impressed..he said something like "We try to maintain the same atmosphere irrespective of whether we lose or win". Now they may not actually do that all the time but the mere fact that they are thinking in that direction augurs well for the team.

[cochise]

Dhoni is a CHAMPION!

[veer]

Looking at how Dhoni is leading, I can see my next few years will go with less heart burns and low blood pressure.. Fontaine hit lot of those good points.. and just wanted to give one more example.. we were playing one of those VB series games against ozzies.. it was a heated series.. with symonds and all....Umpire warned IS and warned Dhoni.. but Dhoni just said something like "Symo started it and IS is just replying.. i am not gonna tell anything to him... warn ozzies first'' in other words he told umpire -- forget you umpire.. here is the video.. 3JgdX-LH4ws you just gotta know when to do what.. hail Dhoni.. and then what about that commandable step where he let Ganguly lead the team one last time?? great captaini tell you...