cochise Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 US needed Pakistan first and foremost to establish relations with China to encircle USSR. Nixon visited China secretly during his official visit to Pakistan way back in 1972. Afganistan came almost 7-8 years later. How exactly does this change their state...their "condomness"? Because Nixon, thetwo fingered *****, visited the dragon....because KISSINGER the war criminal did this that or the other...why should we care two cents for these people and their actions? By your measure....you want to know about Afghanistan? Zbigniew Brzezinski is where you should start.
Lurker Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 First of all China's main population is about 3000+ miles away from Pakistan if going by geography...Now agree that the work that India did to get that Gasoline pipeline through Pakistan failed because of these volatile relations between two nation and China definitely sees opportunity to get lion share into that project to fulfill their domestic needs. But they are surviving w/o it today...Other than giving Arms and Nuclear technology to Pakistan' date= what have they done for them??? On the contrary we Indians on many front mingle with Pakistanis in many walks of life when it comes to culture/art. We have our relations still alive in that country. Or else why would we even bother about them. Isnt that true for any country when it comes to Pakistan? What has United States done for Pakistan; other than giving Arms, propping Dictators, sending Dollars to insurgents, turning blind eyes when the same insurgents killed moderates in Pakistan(and crossed border into India). USA's relationship with Pakistan was at its most glory during Zia Ul Haq regime even though Zia dismantled a democractic govt, hung former Pakistan PM and propped right wing Muslim fanatic groups. Which is why it is important to shut down the Arm and Petro dollar support to Pakistan. Now how does it work if United States stops F16 sell to Pakistan but China still does?? We are back to square one arent we? On the contrary we Indians on many front mingle with Pakistanis in many walks of life when it comes to culture/art. Which is why India is the crucial player here. I daresay bigger than any other country, including USA. An ordinary Pakistani might buy a cheap Chinese iPod but guess what songs would be on that iPod?? He may buy a Chinese made laptop and then load it with Indian movies. Point being India can influence Pakistan like no country can. Heck we manage to influence Afganistanis and we dont even have a common border (as of today's line control). I suppose it boils down to how one sees things? You may very well be correct and I more optimistic than you are. Alternatively I may well be correct and you more pessimistic than I am on this issue. xxxx
Lurker Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 How exactly does this change their state...their "condomness"? Because Nixon, thetwo fingered *****, visited the dragon....because KISSINGER the war criminal did this that or the other...why should we care two cents for these people and their actions? By your measure....you want to know about Afghanistan? Zbigniew Brzezinski is where you should start. :haha::haha: then you need to read more at ICF. Nixon and Kissinger are not exactly hated by everyone here. In fact it was "Kangressi" leaders fault that India was in the Soviet block at this time. Never mind the fact that Nixon famously called Indira Gandhi a bit**. I dont have any love for Nixon, or Kissinger, so you are barking up the wrong tree. The point however stands that US's relations with Pakistan go lot further back than Afganistan. xxx
cochise Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 Isnt that true for any country when it comes to Pakistan? What has United States done for Pakistan; other than giving Arms, propping Dictators, sending Dollars to insurgents, turning blind eyes when the same insurgents killed moderates in Pakistan(and crossed border into India). USA's relationship with Pakistan was at its most glory during Zia Ul Haq regime even though Zia dismantled a democractic govt, hung former Pakistan PM and propped right wing Muslim fanatic groups. Were the dictators Paki? Were the insurgents Paki? Are the POWERLESS moderates Paki? So, the blame lies in the corruptor does it? Not in the corrupted?
Lurker Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 Were the dictators Paki? Were the insurgents Paki? Are the POWERLESS moderates Paki? So' date=' the blame lies in the corruptor does it? Not in the corrupted?[/quote'] And who exactly here is portraying that Pakistanis are crystal clean here? Of course they have their faults to own upto. However in your haste, or hate if you will, you are basically harping on one tune - blame Pakistan. Thats not gonna achieve anything. Heck they are not gonna listen to you even, atleast if you keep reciting this tune, so might as well keep quiet. If you seriously wanna achieve something look at both sides of the argument, not just one. xxx
cochise Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 then you need to read more at ICF. Nixon and Kissinger are not exactly hated by everyone here. In fact it was "Kangressi" leaders fault that India was in the Soviet block at this time. Never mind the fact that Nixon famously called Indira Gandhi a bit**. I dont have any love for Nixon, or Kissinger, so you are barking up the wrong tree. The point however stands that US's relations with Pakistan go lot further back than Afganistan. I am glad I brought a laugh to you. I am not writing to an audience...I just write what I feel. do that, if you will. I could care less what people think. Nixon? Kissinger? Bush? Come again? The point however stands that US's relations with Pakistan go lot further back than Afganistan. EWho gives a f****...the yanks certainly don't. Pak is like a discarded condom that has to be used again....reluctantly. But why do Paks...again and again...manifest themselves as condoms?
cochise Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 And who exactly here is portraying that Pakistanis are crystal clean here? Of course they have their faults to own upto. However in your haste, or hate if you will, you are basically harping on one tune - blame Pakistan. Thats not gonna achieve anything. Heck they are not gonna listen to you even, atleast if you keep reciting this tune, so might as well keep quiet. If you seriously wanna achieve something look at both sides of the argument, not just one. Mate...I look at more sides than one. You want to understand me as Paki hater, go ahead. I have had enough of you f*uckers who equivocate on everything...using sophistry as your means...can you not call a spade a spade? Pakis are my brothers...perhaps that is why I am against what they do? Perchance? Mayhaps? Perhaps, my anti-pakiness...is actually pro-pakiness? Examine it...and let me know.
Lurker Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 I am not writing to an audience...I just write what I feel. do that, if you will. I could care less what people think. Nixon? Kissinger? Bush? Errrr no need to ramble. I have already explained myself where I stand with regards to Nixon, Kissinger. If you have not understood it yet maybe you wont the second time too. EWho gives a f****...the yanks certainly don't. Pak is like a discarded condom that has to be used again....reluctantly. But why do Paks...again and again...manifest themselves as condoms? lol. Yanks dont give a eff about Pakistan? Course they do. You are hallucinating if you think otherwise. If Pakistan falls the two worst affected countries in the world would be India and United States. My point, again, was to show US-Pakistan relation existed much before Afganistan. Now either you can agree to that, or disagree, or criticize the point itself. Just mindless rambling about giving a eff does not mean you have any point now, does it :winky: xxx
Lurker Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 Mate...I look at more sides than one. You want to understand me as Paki hater, go ahead. I have had enough of you f*uckers who equivocate on everything...using sophistry as your means...can you not call a spade a spade? Pakis are my brothers...perhaps that is why I am against what they do? Perchance? Mayhaps? Perhaps, my anti-pakiness...is actually pro-pakiness? Examine it...and let me know. Hmmm. I will put this post right where it belongs... garbage bin. And pretend I didnt lose 15 seconds of my life. Please do come back when you have points instead of rambles. xxx
cochise Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 What? No comeback? Come on....give me some game man...don't c*ock a snook at me... Why are you so up yourself anyway? Wasted 15 seconds of your life? :hysterical: Shall we play, Mister "Zero Sum Game"?
cochise Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 lol. Yanks dont give a eff about Pakistan? Course they do. You are hallucinating if you think otherwise. If Pakistan falls the two worst affected countries in the world would be India and United States. You are not thinking...the game is far beyond where you spend your 15 seconds(you should revise this policy).... They are gaming post-Pakistan break up now. Why are you slow? Are you an ideological idiot?
cochise Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 Lurker, Do come back. If there is pause in reply, do not claim it as vindication. I must retire tonight. Almost. Till next then. I await your reply.
dial_100 Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 Isnt that true for any country when it comes to Pakistan? What has United States done for Pakistan; other than giving Arms, propping Dictators, sending Dollars to insurgents, turning blind eyes when the same insurgents killed moderates in Pakistan(and crossed border into India). USA's relationship with Pakistan was at its most glory during Zia Ul Haq regime even though Zia dismantled a democractic govt, hung former Pakistan PM and propped right wing Muslim fanatic groups. Which is why it is important to shut down the Arm and Petro dollar support to Pakistan. Now how does it work if United States stops F16 sell to Pakistan but China still does?? We are back to square one arent we? Which is why India is the crucial player here. I daresay bigger than any other country, including USA. An ordinary Pakistani might buy a cheap Chinese iPod but guess what songs would be on that iPod?? He may buy a Chinese made laptop and then load it with Indian movies. Point being India can influence Pakistan like no country can. Heck we manage to influence Afganistanis and we dont even have a common border (as of today's line control). I suppose it boils down to how one sees things? You may very well be correct and I more optimistic than you are. Alternatively I may well be correct and you more pessimistic than I am on this issue. xxxx Lurk, Me aint pessimist either. I see lot of potential in both the countries but then who will tie the bell around her neck?? The point is we are just bunch of useless people talking about these giant countries where one is obsessed with the corruption and bad governance and other with religious fanaticism and terrorism....Where do you see them complementing factor.... Pakistan do not want to progress and prosper and India is ashamed of Pak's international image. Now with that, Pak has lot to be jealous of India. Optimism has its own boundary....thats it.... I home wisdom prevails...on both the sides.
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