mainhoonna Posted April 12, 2009 Posted April 12, 2009 I am different. You are different- to the other fools on here who keep on assaulting me. I respect you more highly than anybody else on this forum for you have welcomed me with open arms. I don't actually believe the whole of the territory should belong to Pakistan. I dream one day I can go to the valley and sit on a houseboat and ride shikaras and go with my mum and dad one day before they die. I dream of a land where there is no violence. I dream of a day that we can openly cross both sections of Kashmir, which should be free of Pakistani and Indian army involvement. I do understand why India wants Kashmir and have settled that India has a future in Kashmir- I just have to respond in kind to people who try to call me a terrorist or people who try to throw sick accusations at me. Do I not have a right to defend myself? Do I not have a right to defend the area from which one half of me belongs?! I love and loved India and its people- I am not going to let a bunch of people ruin my great memories- which I still talk about daily to parents and friends. The Bangaloreans, Keralans, Delhiites, Mumbaikars....all wonderful. Sod the aggressors- for all the Indian folk in India were wonderful, when I mentioned I had Pakistani roots- and Kashmiri roots for that matter. Infact, from here on in I refuse to talk politics because it works me up and upsets me with some of the responses u know? I refuse to let a few mindless buffoons ruin what made my experience in India the best- the great people of the Republic of India. Thank you, signing off from the political area Hassan P.S I plan to go back to India one day soon and perhaps go to Himachal Pradesh or Darjeeling.... if you really cared for the people in the kashmir,all you would ask for is peace in that land and not do the job of adding ghee to the fire which is what you guys did in punjab.if any kashmiri is reading this,as a punjabi whose punjab was almost ruined,all I ve to say is you guys are morons. You 're destroying your present for something thats never going to happen.While one feels sad for the people,If Kashmir gets independence,it will just be a 2nd pakistan and seeing how idiotic the present state of pakistan is, why would any sane Indian allow that.
King Tendulkar Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 I dream one day I can go to the valley and sit on a houseboat and ride shikaras and go with my mum and dad one day before they die. Kashmir was such a place. Pre 1980s kashmir in India was thriving, full of tourists from all of India and was a great place to go. My parents went there on there honey moon. What went wrong? Seperation mentaility and pak fuelling it. Now look at your kashmir a mess , created by the kashmiris and their pak brothers jihadi movement. If kashmiris had not being influenced in to their violent ways. Then India Kashmir would be tourist hot spot world wide and be thriving. Unfortunatley pak kashmir fuelled a down ward spiral which posters like hassan seem all to happy to fuel with the "we want seperation" pipe dream!
veeru_rocks Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 As much as I accuse Kashmirri muslim congress had a big role to play in alienation of kashmirir muslims.. congressi autocrats kept fixing election results through corrupt practices and this fact did edge the already precarious mentality of kashmirri muslims towards separatism..... Incidentally even the star of khalistan movement bhindarwale was the congress protege propped up to check their opponent
The Outsider Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 I would have no problems listening to arguments in favor of an independent Kashmir if it was truly an indigenous movement based on Kashmiriyat. The fact is that it's a communal violent movement excluding some of the the oldest residents of the area and funded and instigated by Pakistan and it's Pashtun and Pathan "freedom fighters". If anyone supports such a movement he is downright morally corrupt.
hassan_113 Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 I would have no problems listening to arguments in favor of an independent Kashmir if it was truly an indigenous movement based on Kashmiriyat. The fact is that it's a communal violent movement excluding some of the the oldest residents of the area and funded and instigated by Pakistan and it's Pashtun and Pathan "freedom fighters". If anyone supports such a movement he is downright morally corrupt. Surely then Punter...you have heard of a Mr Muhammad Yasin Malik?
veeru_rocks Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 Surely then Punter...you have heard of a Mr Muhammad Yasin Malik? Have you asked mr. malik how many kashmirri pandits he had kileld by his own bare hands.. Sau chuhe kha ke billi chali haj ko ye hai Malik saheb ki kahani. HE was at the forefront of driving kashmiri pandits out of the valley.
hassan_113 Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 My point was....that Yasin Malik arose from Jammu and Kashmir part controlled by India as opposed to Pakistan... Punter- I do not support any killing of civilians anywhere- including the Kashmiri valley :-)
The Outsider Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 Surely then Punter...you have heard of a Mr Muhammad Yasin Malik? :laugh: Yes I've heard of Yasin Malik who started off as a JKLF terrorist.
The Outsider Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 My point was....that Yasin Malik arose from Jammu and Kashmir part controlled by India as opposed to Pakistan... Punter- I do not support any killing of civilians anywhere- including the Kashmiri valley :-) And so? Where did I say there is no local trouble at all. JKLF militants received all their training in PoK under the watchful eye of the ISI. There is local disgruntlement in Kashmir but it would have never got to this level if Pakistan had not provided so much "moral support" that they were training the disgruntled youth in terrorism, supplying them arms, and then getting Pathans and Pashtuns into India to participate in ethnic cleansing. Oh, and you know why Pakistan started washing it's hands off JKLF - because Yasin Malik wanted to give up violence, started speaking for the rights of Kashmiri Pundits, and Pakistan found pro Pakistan terrorist groups instead of the independence seeking JKLF. Your statement that you do not support the killing of civilians anywhere means very little when you support the people involved in their killing and ethnic cleansing.
suraj Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 My point was....that Yasin Malik arose from Jammu and Kashmir part controlled by India as opposed to Pakistan... Punter- I do not support any killing of civilians anywhere- including the Kashmiri valley :-) Now I know why terrorism succeeds in Pakistan- Lagey raho
hassan_113 Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 Punter, I never said I supported Malik or anybody else who kills people. However, you know who's side I takein J&K! Signing off, Hassan
hassan_113 Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 And so? Where did I say there is no local trouble at all. JKLF militants received all their training in PoK under the watchful eye of the ISI. There is local disgruntlement in Kashmir but it would have never got to this level if Pakistan had not provided so much "moral support" that they were training the disgruntled youth in terrorism, supplying them arms, and then getting Pathans and Pashtuns into India to participate in ethnic cleansing. Oh, and you know why Pakistan started washing it's hands off JKLF - because Yasin Malik wanted to give up violence, started speaking for the rights of Kashmiri Pundits, and Pakistan found pro Pakistan terrorist groups instead of the independence seeking JKLF. Your statement that you do not support the killing of civilians anywhere means very little when you support the people involved in their killing and ethnic cleansing. In the words of ICF users...prove it
suraj Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 Punter, I never said I supported Malik or anybody else who kills people. However, you know who's side I takein J&K! Signing off, Hassan You keep saying that but never do- its like Pakis proclaiming they are working for peace but never do
suraj Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 Stop goading me then. Khuda hafiz pappi for u [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eA1M4D-TfA]YouTube - Shahid Afridi blows a kiss![/ame] Allah malik aur hum uske bande
The Outsider Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 In the words of ICF users...prove it Here you go straight from Yasin Malik and Amanullah Khan's mouth : REVERBERATIONS of 9/11 continue to be felt across the world and it is no exaggeration to say that Pakistan tops the list of countries where they have caused the maximum impact. In the country, yesterday's friends have become today's foes and vice versa. Freedom fighters have suddenly become terrorists, and those who proudly proclaimed to be patrons of the so-called freedom fighters until the other day want the world to forget their past role. This is somewhat the predicament of the country's Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed ever since Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) leader Yasin Malik made some `stray' comments on the "great role" that the former played for the cause of "Kashmir liberation" in the late 1980s when militancy first rocked the Kashmir Valley. Yasin Malik, who was part of a nine-member delegation of Kashmiri leaders making their first official visit to Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir (POK) and Pakistan, is back in Srinagar after blaming a section of the media for distorting his comments on Rashid. But the denial is drowned in affirmations of the Minister's role in running training-cum-refugee camps for Kashmiri separatists under the aegis of some powerful Pakistani leaders in the 1980s and 1990s. The controversy could not have come at a more inopportune time for the Minister. Rashid had applied for permission to travel to Srinagar, from where his family had migrated decades ago, on the Muzaffarabad-Srinagar bus on June 30. The Minister, known for his flamboyant style and high-pitch statements, was hoping that his visit to the Valley with a large media contingent would make a big splash. With India expressing concern over the reports of Rashid's role in running the camps, there is much speculation on whether or not the Sheikh will be able to make the journey. Rashid is eager to put the controversy behind and board the Srinagar bus if not to earn a footnote in the history of the current phase of India-Pakistan rapprochement. A seasoned politician with a knack of being at the right place at the right time, Rashid is fully conscious that his failure to make it to Srinagar could be the beginning of the end of his ministerial innings. Known as Farzand-e-Rawalpindi, or Son of Rawalpindi, the Sheikh had served as Information Minister in the Nawaz Sharif government too. He was elected to the National Assembly on the Pakistan Muslim League (Nawaz) ticket in the October 2002 elections. Subsequently, he shifted his allegiance to the ruling PML(Q), and earned the sobriquet of `Lota' of Rawalpindi. Lota, a vessel used for ablutions, is a derogatory term used for political chameleons. There are speculations galore on how and why things have come to such a pass for the Minister. Some even wonder if a veteran like Yasin Malik would have made such comments without a definite purpose. Malik could certainly have not been unaware of the implications of his comments, which were made on the occasion of the inauguration of a photo exhibition on `Kashmir struggle'. Besides Rashid, Pakistan Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz, Chairperson of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan Asma Jehangir, who inaugurated the exhibition, and a horde of local and international journalists were present at the function. Yasin Malik, who crossed the Line of Control (LoC) in the 1980s to train as a militant but subsequently became a votary of non-violent politics, took the gathering at the exhibition by surprise when he turned his attention to the Information Minister and said: "Sheikh Rashid has played a great role for Kashmir's liberation. He used to support the frontline jehadis from Kashmir, but few know of his contributions." When journalists asked the Minister for his reaction to the comments, he tersely remarked, "I have no idea about which Sheikh Rashid he [Yasin Malik] is speaking about. There are so many Sheikhs in Rawalpindi." The matter would have ended there but for a front-page report in a local English-language newspaper, Daily Times, the next day under the heading: "Minister trained 3,500 Kashmiri militants, says Malik". The report said it was at the Information Minister's farmhouse on the outskirts of the national capital that some 3,500 Kashmiri jehadis, including Malik, received arms training. News agencies picked up the report and by evening the Indian External Affairs Ministry had put out a brief statement that it was a violation of the commitment given by Pakistan in January 2004 that it would not allow its soil to be used against India. A panicky Minister contacted Malik and then issued a statement accusing a section of the media of distorting the JKLF leader's comments. Malik himself made it a point to contact Islamabad-based Indian correspondents with the request that his contradiction of the Pakistan daily's report be put out. When contacted by an Indian television channel, Pakistani journalist Hamid Mir said: "Yes, according to the information I have, Sheikh Rashid's Rawalpindi farmhouse was dubbed Freedom House and used to be a hub of Kashmiri activists belonging to the JKLF. The camp was operational from 1988-90 to train JKLF cadre and Sheikh Rashid accompanied JKLF leaders, including Yasin, to the LoC several times. The camp's existence was known to high officials in Islamabad." Worse still, Daily Times followed it up with an editorial titled "What's the big deal about Yasin Malik's admission?" It accused the Indian media and government of having seized on the remarks to launch a protest against the Minister for allegedly sponsoring "terrorist" camps for Kashmiri militants and accused the Pakistan government of fostering such sentiments at the "highest decision-making level". The editorial said: "This is a ridiculous storm in a teacup. Everybody... knows that Pakistan has proudly supported the Kashmir cause and the freedom fighters, not terrorists. Mr. Hamid Mir, a well known columnist and current anchorman of a TV show, confirmed as much to an Indian channel two days ago when the controversy broke. Mr. Mir should know what he is talking about. He was the editor of an Urdu newspaper in Islamabad for many years that openly espoused the cause of armed jihad in Kashmir." It added: "Much the same fact has been confirmed by a former agent of Pakistan's secret service, Khalid Khwaja, who told Adnkronos International (AKI) that the Pakistani Information Minister, Sheikh Rashid Ahmed, established a military training camp on Fateh Jhang Road, near Rawalpindi, in the late 1980s which was disbanded in 1991 on the orders of the Nawaz Sharif government... But that was then, when jihad was a proudly preferred policy course of the Pakistani state. Today, however, the Pakistani state is busy seeking ways and means to outlaw the same jihad. And there is no doubt about its intentions." The Pakistan People's Party (PPP) led by former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto also confirmed Rashid's role. Naseerullah Babar, who was Interior Minister in the PPP government, in a statement claimed that Rashid himself had admitted to running such a camp. Subsequently, PPP spokesperson Farhatullah Babar confirmed Yasin Malik's `statement'. "In 1989, the PPP government had learnt that the ISI [inter-Services Intelligence, Pakistan's intelligence agency], without the government's clearance, had given to then Opposition member Sheikh Rashid hundreds of acres of land in the suburban areas of Rawalpindi. The PPP government had also learnt that this land was given to him to support the Kashmiri groups... . But, as the military was under the President, there was little the government of the day could do about it constitutionally," he said. Babar alleged that hundreds of acres of land was given to the Sheikh for some "collateral purposes" and only 20 acres of it was used to train militants. Claiming that the "training camp story was anything more than a decoy to divert state funds to favoured political leaders to overthrow democracy", the PPP in a statement demanded an inquiry into the Sheikh's role in training militants. Former Pakistan Army Chief Aslam Beg also claimed in an interview that when he was at the helm of the military he had received reports about the camp run by Rashid. Strangely, Rashid has not contradicted either the media reports or the statements by others. EVEN as the Sheikh Rashid controversy rages, separatist leader Amanullah Khan, who is based in POK, has alleged that Kashmiri militants were initially trained by the ISI in the late 1980s. Amanullah Khan said the move had the blessings of Pakistan's then military ruler Zia-ul-Haq. Incidentally, Yasin Malik was a member of Khan's JKLF until they parted company in the mid-1990s. Recently, the two faction leaders agreed to join hands once again. In a new edition of his book Continuous Struggle, which was first published in 1992, Amanullah Khan says the ISI first made contact with the JKLF in early 1987 through the organisation's senior leader, Farooq Haider. He says Haider made a deal with the ISI whereby the JKLF was to bring to POK young Kashmiris willing to fight Indian rule; they would then be given military training and arms by the ISI to start an insurgency in the Valley. The JKLF was the first group to take up arms against Indian rule in 1988, with the aim of securing independence for Kashmir. Khan says he was not a part of the deal at the time it was made but went ahead with it because the JKLF was told that "General Zia-ul-Haq's ideology was similar to that of the JKLF. I remember thinking that Gen. Zia had said he wanted Kashmir to be a part of the Organisation of Islamic Conference (OIC), which clearly meant an independent Kashmir. So I went ahead with the deal." According to Khan, the then chief of the ISI, General Akhtar Abdur Rehman, told the JKLF that the ISI would not interfere with its ideology. "I was told by Brigadier Farooq of the ISI that the agency would lend us unconditional support as directed by General Zia-ul-Haq," he says. "He also said the ISI would not intervene in JKLF's organisational matters." Khan says it was also agreed that no JKLF leader "engaged at the political and diplomatic front" would accept money in cash from the ISI. It was a verbal agreement, he says. The first batch of eight young fighters from Indian Kashmir were said to have reached POK in February 1988. They were given military training and weapons by the ISI and sent back with instructions not to start anything until they got a green signal from Pakistan, Khan writes. Khan then says that three separatist leaders, Mohammed Afzal, Ghulam Hasan Lone and Ghulam Nabi Bhatt, were called to POK in June 1988. "After lengthy deliberations, we asked them to start the insurgency on 13 July, 1988. "But for some reason, the insurgency could not begin before 31 July when the Amar Singh Club and the Central Post and Telegraph Office in Srinagar were bombed." Khan says the JKLF parted ways with the ISI in early 1990 when the ISI demanded that one of its officers be allowed to attend the JKLF meetings "as an observer". The Sheikh Rashid controversy and Khan's book are no doubt going to cause the Pakistani establishment a great deal of embarrassment even as it professes commitment to the United States' war on terrorism.
veeru_rocks Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 IF he is not convinced I can provide Sheikh rasheed's video where he owns up running a terrorist camp in freedom house
punjabi_khota Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 Kashmir banega pakistan tabh jabh pakistan rahega pakistan...uske chances kaafi kam lag rahe hain.
hassan_113 Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 Interesting stuff. At least Punter has decided to try and contribute to this thread- where he has been strangely quiet beforehand. I didn't know that Sheikh Rashid was refused visa to India for this reason. Didn't know he had family from Srinagar. Point is not whether Pakistan trained them or not....is that Mr Yasin Malik and the likes came from WITHIN the Indian-administered Kashmir- and these were the original mujahideen, not the Azad Kashmir people India has alleged cross LoC. Again, it is India's opinion v Pakistan's- a reason why Kashmir has got nowhere. I just hope for a solution sooner rather than later...but this will not happen given the respective governments' inflexibility on the issue. I believe that a demilitarised Kashmir with an irrelevant LoC allowing Kashmiris (including myself!!) go to various areas not previosuly accessible for the other side, with India and Pakistan having overall control of the area but with the area having some sort of autonomy....would work. This would involve greater relations between the likes of Azad Kashmir & India and Kashmir valley and Pakistan.
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