cochise Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 I think they do. I don't think any country, India included, wants to see Pakistan lose it's territorial integrity and break up. However, the question is, what can they do about it? The US is bogged down in two wars (one unnecessary in Iraq) and are already over-extended. Now, with the financial crisis upon them, they are unable even if they were willing, to take on an expanded front either with Pakistan, or Iran, their favourite whipping boy. By all accounts, Bush's eight years have screwed up the region and US foreign policy really bad. As for India, it does not want conflict with Pakistan...even if there are reactionary elements in India, of which there are few, it will be massively counter productive to India on the whole...there would be zero reason for India to get into a conflict with Paksitan or seek to break it up...unless, of course, there were no other alternative but to do it, in the face of relentless provocation. Which is why I worry. You see, the forces that are undermining Pakistan as a nation are also the forces trying to provoke the two countries into conflict...we have already seen what they can do with Mumbai and the Lankan team attack being visible examples. However, look at the Mosque bombing now. It is spreading into the fabric of Pakistan proper. This is when you know that the malaise is deep. What's more, the government appears toothless and elements of the intelligence agencies appear to be in cahoots with these nefarious forces while others in the defence appear to be looking to usurp power again. The whole scene appears riddled with factionalism and intrigue and infighting of the most serious and bloody kind. As far as the US goes, I don't think you need to worry about their intentions being threatening...they wish to maintain Pakistan's integrity if for only one reason...if Pakistan were to break apart, their problems in the region would be magnified by many orders of magnitude. It is far better for them to have a stable Pkaistan that is cooperative. And India too has no nefarious designs on Pakistan. All it's actions have only been retaliatory, and in the case of Mumbai, non-action. No, the demons Pakistan faces now are all internal. How she ends up purging herself of these demons, is what we all wish to see.
hassan_113 Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Thanks Cochise for a very satisfying discussion, which I have thoroughly enjoyed. I hope we dismantle any organisation that wants to kill. Then we will have peace.
punjabi_khota Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Looking at the various posts- I am not a typical Pakistani because:- 1) I love the Indian people and country (albeit not government) 2) I don't kiss the rears of the Arabs like other Pakistanis 3) I understand the Kashmir issue (unlike 99% Pakistanis and Indians) and am well-versed on it and have explained it to many Pakistanis and Indians- including a Bangalorean man working here the other day Nope, these guys are retards blowing each other up (Taliban)- lets just say the Pathans are biting the hand that fed them for so long. Re: Kashmiri valley and freedom fighters. I don't support killing of innocent civilians anywhere in the world and Kashmir is no different. I have always felt upset at the fact that the Kashmiris haven't had a chance to decide their fate- like Arundhati Roy who agrees with me. I know you all have the Indian punch lines and you are blindly patriotic, but I have always dreamed of Kashmir being solved peacefully- that's surely not too hard for you to imagine. P.S. the guy saying that Paks would avoid this thread- I am not scared of posting anywhere about anything as you all might have seen. I will never shirk away from my values and principles and my knowledge supports it. Maybe you don't like me because we hold opposite political views, but I know that there may be some gruging respect for it, because I don't take anything lying down. You keep repeating that so much..why don't you put that in your signature.
Guest gaurav_indian Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 You keep repeating that so much..why don't you put that in your signature. Its better than spreading hatred isnt it?:winky:
pan_walla Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Cochise- this is a question to you only. As somebody with a Kashmiri mother' date=' I take a great interest in the place. Do you think that people actually care about it or is it mostly a ego thing about land and potential gains/losses? I get the feeling that most people don't actually care about the people in Pak + Indian Kashmir.[/quote'] I am a Kashmiri Pandit from actual Kashmir valley, both my parents are Kashmiri and so am I. Our existence in the valley pre-dates birth of Islam or the onslaught of forced conversions. So why the hell should we end up with Pakistan? Almost half of Kashmir is in Pakistan control already. Make LOC international border. Anyone who wants to be with Pakistan should be allowed to move there. Not an inch of Indian Kashmir should be given to the jihadis. Population and land % wise Pakistani Muslims have got more than their fair share of pre-partition India. No more! Let's be honest the mentality of some Muslims is very clear. Inch by inch they would like the whole world.
hassan_113 Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Ok pan_walla, you are welcome to your viewpoint man. P.S. an inch given to 'jihadis'- if that was to happen it should only be the decision of the people there to do what they want- not Pakistan's or India's.
punjabi_khota Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Its better than spreading hatred isnt it?:winky: Spreading love the Arundhati Roy way ? Humm...I think I would pass. She is a **** and biggest pseudo secular *****.
pan_walla Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 P.S. an inch given to 'jihadis'- if that was to happen it should only be the decision of the people there to do what they want- not Pakistan's or India's. Bit late for that don't you think when actual Pakistan backed local and international terrorists already made sure that kafir people like me got driven out by brutally violent means? I find comical when I read on Pakistani forums that KPs leaving Kashmir had nothing to do with their safety in Kashmir. I don't need you, Arundhati Roy, two faced Amir Khan, Amnesty International or any clue less person or organization telling me what personally happened to us and all our relatives . kthnxbye
pan_walla Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 ^^ pan walla = gai ka dood / gaurav ? Are they well known pan walles? My chachu says that only one good pan walla in this world. Are they friends of my chachu?
EnterTheVoid Posted March 29, 2009 Posted March 29, 2009 I am becoming a fan of pan walla's amusing posts :haha:
King Tendulkar Posted March 29, 2009 Posted March 29, 2009 I am a Kashmiri Pandit from actual Kashmir valley' date=' both my parents are Kashmiri and so am I. Our existence in the valley pre-dates birth of Islam or the onslaught of forced conversions. So why the hell should we end up with Pakistan? Almost half of Kashmir is in Pakistan control already. Make LOC international border. Anyone who wants to be with Pakistan should be allowed to move there. Not an inch of Indian Kashmir should be given to the jihadis. Population and land % wise Pakistani Muslims have got more than their fair share of pre-partition India. No more! Let's be honest the mentality of some Muslims is very clear. Inch by inch they would like the whole world.[/quote'] Ouch. Post of the year
cochise Posted March 29, 2009 Posted March 29, 2009 An interesting article in the Jang: http://jang.com.pk/thenews/mar2009-weekly/nos-29-03-2009/dia.htm#2 Shoe business By Salman Rashid There is something to be said for this business of slipper-throwing: there could scarcely have been more fitting a swan song for George Bush, a confirmed intellectual starvation area who played a major role in bringing this world to yet another sorry pass. Since journalist Zaidi got a great deal of play in the press around the world, this business is catching on. Now we have someone at the Jawaharlal Nehru University in Delhi tossing a slipper at Arundhati Roy. We know the crimes that old Bush got the boot for, but Arundhati has done nothing more sinful than writing a novel that's a darn good read and looking pretty all the time. Her crime, we are told, was that she suggested Kashmir be given to Pakistan and the whole bloody issue got over with. If she were Punjabi she would have ended her statement with a 'kil kil hi mukao.' Arundhati as she obviously is, has fooled the patriotic kid from JNU, young and callow. He has been singularly unable to see behind her façade. But she cannot fool foxy old me. Arundhati is clearly on the payroll of whatever or whoever it is that makes things happen in India. So here's the scenario. India hands over Kashmir to us in this huge, ceremony attended by the high and the mighty of Pakistan and Paris Hilton. If you don't know who these high and mighty are, look at the social pages of our otherwise unreadable rags. The event gets premium coverage; India becomes the darling of the world for her magnanimity and Pakistan think they've got the moon (when all they got is lousy old Kashmir). But this is one story that will not end on 'and they lived happily ever after.' At least not yet. The real kil kil begins now. Good old Arundhati and her paymasters have us nailed. Only they and nobody else ever recognised that Pakistan is the Land of Mediocrity and Incompetence where bumbling politicians (both civil and military) and an inept bureaucracy are all thumbs when it comes to management. I am surprised why a statesman as astute as Mr Nehru, his equally smart daughter Indira or the wily Mr Vajpayee never thought of this brilliant idea. With Kashmir in our bungling hands this is what happens: since Pakistan is for Muslims (read Sunni) only where exhibition of joy and merriment is banned, we will first of all set about exterminating those heathen Sikhs and Hindus. Just look how those godless people have something or the other going on the livelong year. First they have the Basant, Holi and Bisakhi festivals. Then it is Dusehra or Divali. Those Worshippers of False Gods dance that utterly blasphemous bhangra and soil other folks clothing with colour. To name only two of their un-Islamic activities. To pile iniquity upon iniquity, they quaff vast amounts of bhung on Holi. Who knows how much booze is also slipped in secretly? At Dusehra they have that giant effigy of Ravan which they tote around for a while before setting it alight with explosives. (Aside: that is why we hate the Shias because they do the same with their tazia). And then they make farther merry with Diwali by lighting pagan lamps. Why, they have an endless round of merriment and expressions of joy the year round. So, they will have to be exterminated after Kashmir becomes Pakistan. But the great Manto once said that you cannot kill religion because religion abides in the soul and the soul never perishes. Consequently, no matter how many Sikhs and Hindus we burn in their homes and dispatch by suicide bombing, their religions will never cease to exist. If Manto were wrong there would have been no Shias, Christians, Hindus, Parsis or Sikhs in Pakistan today. The only thing that will happen is that the non-Sunni Kashmiris will rise up against the state of Pakistan. Does that ring a bell? The last time we had such a thing going was in the late 1960s, not for religious but other reasons. That gave one hell of a problem to the map-makers of the world because they had to reprint their atlases with a new name: Bangladesh. But the Bengalis who we proud Pukhtuns and Punjabis always looked down upon for being short-statured, dark-skinned beggars were too slow. They took a quarter century to secede. The Hindus and Sikhs of Kashmir, good Rajputs and Jats, will get their faster. Perhaps in four or five years. Much as I do not want a replay of the Jagjit Arora-Tiger Niazi spiel, I fear that might also happen. That then is the scheme that Arundhati and her devious paymasters are concocting.
Guest gaurav_indian Posted March 29, 2009 Posted March 29, 2009 Ok pan_walla, you are welcome to your viewpoint man. P.S. an inch given to 'jihadis'- if that was to happen it should only be the decision of the people there to do what they want- not Pakistan's or India's. Most of us wants to know the real meaning of jihaad.Everyone gives different definition.Do you know the real one?If killing innocent people is jihaad.Then LPC jihaad.
hassan_113 Posted March 29, 2009 Posted March 29, 2009 Don't quote me directly for i'm not an expert, but i think the definition= 'striving against evil' and there are many different types. Only one of these is the type you see in Kashmir and the likes.
Zap_Brannigan Posted March 29, 2009 Posted March 29, 2009 Don't quote me directly for i'm not an expert' date=' but i think the definition= 'striving against evil' and there are many different types. Only one of these is the type you see in Kashmir and the likes.[/quote'] The othe type we see in pakistan. The recent mosque bomb blast is an example.
King Tendulkar Posted March 30, 2009 Posted March 30, 2009 And you have all these attacks on pak. And instead of tackling the problem most paks just ridiculously want to blame india. Paks just dont realise that all India wants is peace! But most paks are intellectually dishonest about this and would rather just blame india then stop terror attacks on themselves. The ossession with Kaffir India is bizzare
EnterTheVoid Posted March 30, 2009 Posted March 30, 2009 Hassan, If you have any family, friends, loved ones etc in Pakistan, I hope they stay safe and sound and are not involved in this mindless cycle of violence and destruction Stay safe buddy, stay safe. These are desperate times and people would stoop to any lengths to make their point, with no thought or regard for the violence, hurt and pain their actions in moments of madness inflict on others for generations to come what a world :((
King Tendulkar Posted March 30, 2009 Posted March 30, 2009 Question for Hassan? Do you believe there is India involvement behind lahore attacks on Sri Lanka players
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