Dravid takes a shot at Viru - or is it Laxman?

[graphic23]

No it doesn't. It's also accompanied by tunnel vision' date=' sheer bullheadedness and an unwillingness to accept facts or common sense in this case.[/quote'] :cantstop: :icflove:

[anbuchelvan]

Unfortunately' date=' stupidity stands alone.[/quote'] For me the man who had declared when somebody was batting at 194* on second day with 16 overs of batting still left will be a stand alone selfish stupid of Indian cricket history.:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

[graphic23]

For me the man who had declared when somebody was batting at 194* on second day with 16 overs of batting still left will be a stand alone selfish stupid of Indian cricket history.:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

Why don't you call Ganguly a backstabber? He declared when Dravid was not out on 91 ? Dude, Dravid is THE most selfless cricketer on the team*. You're messed up if you think otherwise. Go read your masala stories on the web that call Dravid a backstabber. * Sachin is God. So he doesn't count

[rahuliverpool]

Why don't you call Ganguly a backstabber? He declared when Dravid was not out on 91 ? Dude, Dravid is THE most selfless cricketer on the team*. You're messed up if you think otherwise. Go read your masala stories on the web that call Dravid a backstabber. * Sachin is God. So he doesn't count

Sachin is GOD, and Dravid has achieved human perfection ! This is what differentiates the too legends for me, those of you who think dravid is selfish and a backstabber are absolute idiots who don't knoe jackshit about cricket and are only here to make stupid remarks

[Master Blaster]

For me the man who had declared when somebody was batting at 194* on second day with 16 overs of batting still left will be a stand alone selfish stupid of Indian cricket history.:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

You could make up anything you want but there is no way a teammate would be jealous of other guy scoring a double century, let alone Dravid one of our greats and the captain at that time. What proof do you have that Dravid declared on purpose and didn't want Sachin to get another century. You are a fool because you don't know jack sh*t about the Indian team.:finger:

[DomainK]

You could make up anything you want but there is no way a teammate would be jealous of other guy scoring a double century, let alone Dravid one of our greats and the captain at that time. What proof do you have that Dravid declared on purpose and didn't want Sachin to get another century. You are a fool because you don't know jack sh*t about the Indian team.:finger:

Why? Do you assume players give up all humanly qualities when they get into a team? Jealousy is one of the basic human emotions and there is no science that says that once a player enters a team, he will not be jealous of other players. That 'can' happen.

What proof do you have that Dravid declared on purpose and didn't want Sachin to get another century.

And what proof do you have to the contrary? That declaration was not a normal one by any stretch of imagination. Even a child could say that it was an abnormal thing. There has to be an explanation. What prompted Dravid to declare at that time? He may or may not have been selfish, but in a captain's position, you have to be smarter than that. Now he will carry that allegation for the rest of his life.

You are a fool because you don't know jack sh*t about the Indian team.

And thats the wrong way to respond to a post in a forum.

[Zap_Brannigan]

Why? Do you assume players give up all humanly qualities when they get into a team? Jealousy is one of the basic human emotions and there is no science that says that once a player enters a team, he will not be jealous of other players. That 'can' happen. And what proof do you have to the contrary? That declaration was not a normal one by any stretch of imagination. Even a child could say that it was an abnormal thing. There has to be an explanation. What prompted Dravid to declare at that time? He may or may not have been selfish, but in a captain's position, you have to be smarter than that. Now he will carry that allegation for the rest of his life.

I would have declared it earlier. He waited sometime for Sachin to reach 200. He failed. No fking conspiracy thr esp since a 200 does not matter to him. Its not like Sachin did not have a 200 before. Infact, the game before that, Sachin scored 240. Its like calling you gay and asking you to prove that you are not.I could have sworn that only pakis use this convoluted logic. For them, since India did not prove that RAW did not plan the mumbai attacks, it was them and not the pakis .

[DomainK]

I would have declared it earlier. He waited sometime for Sachin to reach 200. He failed. No fking conspiracy thr esp since a 200 doe not matter to him. Its not like Sachin did have a 200 before. Infact, the game before that, Sachin scored 240. Its like calling you gay and asking you to prove that you are not.

I am not saying that he was selfish. I am not saying that he was not. There is no way of knowing what was going on in his mind when he made that decision. It could have been selfishness. It could have been pure judgement without giving any importance to personal landmarks. What I am saying is: what he did was stupid. A captain is a mix of a leader and a manager. A leader is people centric and a manager is company (objective/goal) centric. As a captain, its necessary to think about your players' landmarks as it encourages them. You can not be plain calculating machine looking only at the team objective and nothing else because if you do so, you are being a very good manager, but you are being a very poor leader. Dravid should have either declared early or declared after Sachin's 200. To declare when one is less than 10 runs short of a huge landmark is pure stupidity and shows incompetence of the captain. As a consequence, he will live with the allegations for the rest of his life.

[rahuliverpool]

I am not saying that he was selfish. I am not saying that he was not. There is no way of knowing what was going on in his mind when he made that decision. It could have been selfishness. It could have been pure judgement without giving any importance to personal landmarks. What I am saying is: what he did was stupid. A captain is a mix of a leader and a manager. A leader is people centric and a manager is company (objective/goal) centric. As a captain, its necessary to think about your players' landmarks as it encourages them. You can not be plain calculating machine looking only at the team objective and nothing else because if you do so, you are being a very good manager, but you are being a very poor leader. Dravid should have either declared early or declared after Sachin's 200. To declare when one is less than 10 runs short of a huge landmark is pure stupidity and shows incompetence of the captain. As a consequence, he will live with the allegations for the rest of his life.

There was reason for why he did that. It was because we were progressing very slowly and we needed to put pak to bat asap as it was nearing the end and if you remember that was a good decision as we got like 4-5 wickets (remember sachin's wicket of moin on the last ball of the day). Dravid had sent someone during drinks asking then to increase the rate. I agree that HE COULD HAVE WAITED, but he had the team's cause in front at that time. I was disappointed to no end when Sachin could not reach his double, but this happens. That infact proved, that no one in the team played for records and gone were the days. Sachin was cool about it too, his celebrations on the moin khan wicket were thrilling and absolutely fantastic. Dravid is one of the biggest admirers of Sachin and vice versa and he would never do anything like this or anything for that matter in jealousy, if you follow Indian cricket, you should have known this by now.

[rahuliverpool]

^ Sachin and Dravid are not ordinary people. They are very very special. These men are made of something else.

[DomainK]

There was reason for why he did that. It was because we were progressing very slowly and we needed to put pak to bat asap as it was nearing the end and if you remember that was a good decision as we got like 4-5 wickets (remember sachin's wicket of moin on the last ball of the day). Dravid had sent someone during drinks asking then to increase the rate. I agree that HE COULD HAVE WAITED' date=' but he had the team's cause in front at that time. I was disappointed to no end when Sachin could not reach his double, but this happens. That infact proved, that no one in the team played for records and gone were the days. Sachin was cool about it too, his celebrations on the moin khan wicket was thrilling and absolutely fantastic. Dravid is one of the biggest admirers of Sachin and vice versa and he would never do anything like this or anything for that matter in jealousy, if you follow Indian cricket, you should have known this by now.[/quote'] Yes....Sachin is cool about it....Dravid is cool about it. They probably put it past them that very minute. But like I said, Dravis will have to live with the allegations for the rest of his life. You avoid such situations if you are skilled enough. Thats what makes a good captain. You foresee and you plan.

[DomainK]

^ Sachin and Dravid are not ordinary people. They are very very special. These men are made of something else.

Agreed 100%. Two of my most favorite players in the team. When it comes to test cricket, they are light years ahead of the rest of the team.

[graphic23]

I am not saying that he was selfish. I am not saying that he was not. There is no way of knowing what was going on in his mind when he made that decision. It could have been selfishness. It could have been pure judgement without giving any importance to personal landmarks. What I am saying is: what he did was stupid. A captain is a mix of a leader and a manager. A leader is people centric and a manager is company (objective/goal) centric. As a captain, its necessary to think about your players' landmarks as it encourages them. You can not be plain calculating machine looking only at the team objective and nothing else because if you do so, you are being a very good manager, but you are being a very poor leader. Dravid should have either declared early or declared after Sachin's 200. To declare when one is less than 10 runs short of a huge landmark is pure stupidity and shows incompetence of the captain. As a consequence, he will live with the allegations for the rest of his life.

I completely disagree. I am as big a fan of Sachin as your are. But he sent several messages to him saying pick the pace up. Unfortunately, Sachin didn't/couldn't/wasn't quick enough/whatever the hell happened out there. But the fact was, he had been telling to pick the pace up since Sachin was in his late 160s. Wright mentioned that as soon as Sachin reached 175*, the plan was to let him finish the 200 and then declare. It took a long time - for whatever reason. You're being incredibly harsh on Rahul Dravid - he was a stand-in captain for Sourav Ganguly, who, along with John Wright, was in the dressing room too. I don't know if you know this but several people also said it was Ganguly's decision and not Dravid's. Thats impossible to prove - same with whether it was Dravid who wanted it, and if so, what was the real motive behind it. Whether it was 194* or not, the point was that it would've been a HUGE advantage to India if we got some early wickets on the day - hence he declared with 16 overs still left in the day. As it happened, we won the game well in advance. That made the declaration even more bitter. Sachin was right with the way he reacted - he wanted that 200 because its against Pakistan. But he himself said it was all settled in the dressing room. If guys like anbuchelvan keep harping about it, we can't do much, can we? You think people/I don't want to see Sachin have a 200* in Pakistan against Pakistan? Hell no - obviously, I'd like Sachin to get to as many 200s as possible (so we can prevent idiots from saying he can't play long innings). But it happened. How come there wasn't a huge cry made about when Dravid was on 91* and Ganguly declared - and I believe it was against Australia, who was at the top of their game, and it was in the 2nd innings. There were so many such cases... and neither Dravid nor people have said anything about that. Why complain? And again, I feel it is incredibly harsh/dumb to say he'll have to live with that allegation for the rest of his life. From what I've seen of Dravid in his career till day, he has never behaved in a manner that was profitable to him and not to the team - he is a gentleman of the highest class. The only reason why such a huge cry was made was because it was Sachin Tendulkar - and not anybody else. John Wright actually made a comment after saying that it was a strategical mistake and 'no Indian captain should ever declare with Sachin Tendulkar on 194*' . Yeah, stuff happens. We're complaining about Rahul Dravid declaring, while so many others thought it was selfish of Sachin to complain about the declaration when the team was clearly at an advantage due to an early declaration, and even more importantly, the team won. I certainly disagree with that allegation on Sachin - don't you? http://www.hinduonnet.com/tss/tss2738/stories/20040918004106800.htm - Responses to Hindu Also, an AP paper, at the time, had this headline: 'Sachin idhi neeku nyayama?' .. translates to 'Sachin, is this fair to you' .. regarding the news conference after wards. I'm not saying these are right (I think they're the opposite) - but there are different ways to look at this situation, and apart from saying, it was very unfortunate, we can't make any allegations on any player.

[rahuliverpool]

I completely disagree. I am as big a fan of Sachin as your are. But he sent several messages to him saying pick the pace up. Unfortunately, Sachin didn't/couldn't/wasn't quick enough/whatever the hell happened out there. But the fact was, he had been telling to pick the pace up since Sachin was in his late 160s. Wright mentioned that as soon as Sachin reached 175*, the plan was to let him finish the 200 and then declare. It took a long time - for whatever reason. You're being incredibly harsh on Rahul Dravid - he was a stand-in captain for Sourav Ganguly, who, along with John Wright, was in the dressing room too. I don't know if you know this but several people also said it was Ganguly's decision and not Dravid's. Thats impossible to prove - same with whether it was Dravid who wanted it, and if so, what was the real motive behind it. Whether it was 194* or not, the point was that it would've been a HUGE advantage to India if we got some early wickets on the day - hence he declared with 16 overs still left in the day. As it happened, we won the game well in advance. That made the declaration even more bitter. Sachin was right with the way he reacted - he wanted that 200 because its against Pakistan. But he himself said it was all settled in the dressing room. If guys like anbuchelvan keep harping about it, we can't do much, can we? You think people/I don't want to see Sachin have a 200* in Pakistan against Pakistan? Hell no - obviously, I'd like Sachin to get to as many 200s as possible (so we can prevent idiots from saying he can't play long innings). But it happened. How come there wasn't a huge cry made about when Dravid was on 91* and Ganguly declared - and I believe it was against Australia, who was at the top of their game, and it was in the 2nd innings. There were so many such cases... and neither Dravid nor people have said anything about that. Why complain? And again, I feel it is incredibly harsh/dumb to say he'll have to live with that allegation for the rest of his life. From what I've seen of Dravid in his career till day, he has never behaved in a manner that was profitable to him and not to the team - he is a gentleman of the highest class. The only reason why such a huge cry was made was because it was Sachin Tendulkar - and not anybody else. John Wright actually made a comment after saying that it was a strategical mistake and 'no Indian captain should ever declare with Sachin Tendulkar on 194*' . Yeah, stuff happens. We're complaining about Rahul Dravid declaring, while so many others thought it was selfish of Sachin to complain about the declaration when the team was clearly at an advantage due to an early declaration, and even more importantly, the team won. I certainly disagree with that allegation on Sachin - don't you?

I could not agree with you more. Sachin's double is always precious and eagerly awaited, but nothing is more valuable than the team winning and especially against Pakistan. It was one of those decisions which had to be taken. Sachin was shocked, so were we, but the decision was accepted by Sachin immediately in the dressing room which was very very heartening to see.

[DomainK]

Well then we just dont agree. I dont blame Dravid of anything....but I think he could have managed things better.

[graphic23]

Well then we just dont agree. I dont blame Dravid of anything....but I think he could have managed things better.

Fair enough. I am not defending the declaration either, btw. I am defending Dravid's character - from what I've seen and read/heard.

[DomainK]

Fair enough. I am not defending the declaration either' date=' btw. I am defending Dravid's character - from what I've seen and read/heard.[/quote'] :two_thumbs_up: I was never trying to attack his character BTW.

[graphic23]

:two_thumbs_up: I was never trying to attack his character BTW.

I knew that. :-/ I dunno. Maybe I wanted to write a long post.

[anbuchelvan]

You could make up anything you want but there is no way a teammate would be jealous of other guy scoring a double century, let alone Dravid one of our greats and the captain at that time. What proof do you have that Dravid declared on purpose and didn't want Sachin to get another century. You are a fool because you don't know jack sh*t about the Indian team.:finger:

Mind your words Mr.Don't get personel with me .I can call you names also.But I will not stoop to that level.Because we are the fans of Sachin.Not like you.You reflect the Rd 's character.Thinking others are fools and reckless.Look at yourself in front of a mirror and check your alma matter.:finger::finger:

[flamy]

Mind your words Mr.Don't get personel with me .I can call you names also.But I will not stoop to that level.Because we are the fans of Sachin.Not like you.You reflect the Rd 's character.Thinking others are fools and reckless.Look at yourself in front of a mirror and check your alma matter.:finger::finger:

you are a fool because you support the Indian team? Got brainwashed by Pakis? :nervous: