veeru_rocks Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 Under the fanfare of poll in India an important eventin Pakistan might have missed the radar of many. ISI/Army picked three baluchistani natinallist movement leader from their respective homes and very next day their dead body was found. Whole Baluchistan is up in arms and is asking for freedom from yoke of Pakistan.. http://pkpolitics.com/2009/04/11/strike-and-riots-continue-in-balochistan/
suraj Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 Under the fanfare of poll in India an important eventin Pakistan might have missed the radar of many. ISI/Army picked three baluchistani natinallist movement leader from their respective homes and very next day their dead body was found. Whole Baluchistan is up in arms and is asking for freedom from yoke of Pakistan.. http://pkpolitics.com/2009/04/11/strike-and-riots-continue-in-balochistan/ Where is Hassan?? Riding shikara back and forth from baluchistan to KASHMIR??? :scooter::scooter:
The Outsider Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 Where is Hassan?? Riding shikara back and forth from baluchistan to KASHMIR??? :scooter::scooter: Actually, despite my being at loggerheads and arguing with Hassan, I completely understand and empathize where he comes from (despite the occasional rhetoric I throw in to rile him up). He wants an independent Kashmir - and I see nothing wrong with the demand per say. My beef is with the means used to achieve it and the reigious overtones, neighbouring influence, and violent means which leaves the entire region without any statement but violence........and I cannot argue with violence - I'll either succumb to it or become a part of it, there won't be any free will that Hassan is desiring for.
suraj Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 Actually' date=' despite my being at loggerheads and arguing with Hassan, I completely understand and empathize where he comes from (despite the occasional rhetoric I throw in to rile him up). [b']He wants an independent Kashmir - and I see nothing wrong with the demand per say. My beef is with the means used to achieve it and the reigious overtones, neighbouring influence, and violent means which leaves the entire region without any statement but violence........and I cannot argue with violence - I'll either succumb to it or become a part of it, there won't be any free will that Hassan is desiring for. Why do you think that a demand for an independent country wherever religion is different is justified or understandable?? Why is not the voice of Kashmiri pundits being included in what really is the demand from Kashmiris?? Or is it the new modus operandi- drive out one population and then justify independence on my blood, my mum and my dad belonging to a certain place and our voices being the voice of that place. This was tried in Punjab too based on Sikhism but the Hindu Punjabis were more in numbers and also refused to be driven out; Sikhs are integrated, enjoy some of the richest lifestyles and are very much part of Indian ethos now once the instigation from the bastards across the border has been taken care of; Kashmir should follow the same path
The Outsider Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 Why do you think that a demand for an independent country wherever religion is different is justified or understandable?? Why is not the voice of Kashmiri pundits being included in what really is the demand from Kashmiris?? Or is it the new modus operandi- drive out one population and then justify independence on my blood, my mum and my dad belonging to a certain place and our voices being the voice of that place. This was tried in Punjab too based on Sikhism but the Hindu Punjabis were more in numbers and also refused to be driven out; Sikhs are integrated, enjoy some of the richest lifestyles and are very much part of Indian ethos now once the instigation from the bastards across the border has been taken care of; Kashmir should follow the same path Errrrr......I think you have read my previous posts on the issue which have consistently emphasized that there cannot and should not be a decision on Kashmir without the consent and approval of the Kashmiri Pundits. I am completely against a demand of a separate country based on religion as Kashmir is today, but I would not be averse to listening to arguments in favor of a separate Kashmir based on their unique culture, Kashmiriyat - of which Pundits are a huge chunk, provided it is backed up by the Pundits.
EnterTheVoid Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 Where is Hassan?? Riding shikara back and forth from baluchistan to KASHMIR??? :hysterical: Balochistan wants independence from Pakistan. Pakistan supports seperatist movements in Kashmir The irony of the situation is pretty warped. If one were to go by the principle of their argument - i.e. let Kashmir become part of Pakistan because of the wishes of muslim majority, than by the same token, give the Balochs an independent country because they don't want union with Pakistan
suraj Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 Errrrr......I think you have read my previous posts on the issue which have consistently emphasized that there cannot and should not be a decision on Kashmir without the consent and approval of the Kashmiri Pundits. I am completely against a demand of a separate country based on religion as Kashmir is today, but I would not be averse to listening to arguments in favor of a separate Kashmir based on their unique culture, Kashmiriyat - of which Pundits are a huge chunk, provided it is backed up by the Pundits. I don't agree Punter How is Sikkim culture the same as Tamil Nadu's or Goan same as Himachal??? Based on unique culture we can keep dividing and subdividing- Kashmiri pundits bear a huge similarity to Punjabis; we understand each other's language and share beliefs It is just the Islamic religious fervor that has miscommunicated that there is something distinct about Kashmir that has to be preserved away from the rest of the world- nothing more than that
kumble_rocks Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 I don't agree Punter How is Sikkim culture the same as Tamil Nadu's or Goan same as Himachal??? Based on unique culture we can keep dividing and subdividing- Kashmiri pundits bear a huge similarity to Punjabis; we understand each other's language and share beliefs Good Point , totally agree.
The Outsider Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 I don't agree Punter How is Sikkim culture the same as Tamil Nadu's or Goan same as Himachal??? Based on unique culture we can keep dividing and subdividing- Kashmiri pundits bear a huge similarity to Punjabis; we understand each other's language and share beliefs It is just the Islamic religious fervor that has miscommunicated that there is something distinct about Kashmir that has to be preserved away from the rest of the world- nothing more than that And what is wrong with a group of people deciding their destiny peacefully and amicably like Qubec did in Canada? Oh and Punjabi and Kashmiri cultures are vastly different.
EnterTheVoid Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 And what is wrong with a group of people deciding their destiny peacefully and amicably like Qubec did in Canada? Nothing Except that it wont happen. India will have a SWAT valley at its door step
The Outsider Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 Nothing Except that it wont happen. India will have a SWAT valley at its door step I am not talking about what will and won't happen.
kumble_rocks Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 And what is wrong with a group of people deciding their destiny peacefully and amicably like Qubec did in Canada? Oh and Punjabi and Kashmiri cultures are vastly different. And so is Tamil Culture. Would you support Tamil Nadu separatist movement if one exists ?
The Outsider Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 And so is Tamil Culture. Would you support Tamil Nadu separatist movement if one exists ? Sure, why not? I would support any peaceful movement for self determination. Point is that the majority would not side with a demand of a separate nation because they would be aware of the advantages of being part of a bigger set up.
veeru_rocks Posted April 14, 2009 Author Posted April 14, 2009 Usually separatists after sepration complain that borders are not open for easy transfer of labour force.. That's what palestinains keep complainign about separate state but open border so that they can come and go whenever they want into Israel.. I say you can't have it both ways.. As Farukkh Abdullah noticed Kahsmir will nto eb able to sustain even for a day without acess to india and indian market.. I am sure if kashmir gets indepndence they will start cryign next about how India has put trade barriers..
veeru_rocks Posted April 14, 2009 Author Posted April 14, 2009 [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMyGUFa6nYM]YouTube - balouchistan game by the enemies of Pakistan - part2[/ame] Zaid bhai is in real pain over indian indepdendence day being celberated iN baluchistan and these leaders who got murdered being buried in independent pakistan flag
hassan_113 Posted April 15, 2009 Posted April 15, 2009 Sree_india, Pathans from SWAT and Kashmiris are totally different people if you look at history. Pathans are very difficult people- although hot blooded and warrior-like, they often don't use their heads! Kashmiris are a more level-headed population, yet emotional in other ways. Punter, Mr. Kashmir speaks! :D As you can imagine- Kashmir has been a contentious issue for so many years- and violence is not the best way to solve it. However, there are Kashmiri youth- generation after generation- that do not want Indian union. Indian government believes a high election turnout in the valley = call for Indian union...not the case as you can confirm Punter. The people are voting for bread-and-butter issues but this is no substitute for self-determination. These days it would be called a '2nd partition' if Kashmir valley was handed over to Pakistan and Jammu and Ladakh to India thus India's government will not allow this, which is fair enough from the Indian perspective. I compare the Kashmir valley being ruled by India akin to asking people in England to be ruled by the French....maybe that should be suggested to Gordon Brown and David Miliband. Kashmir never had anything culturally, religiously or ethnically in common with India. A few points I ask:- 1) Is Jammu and Kashmir, currently held by India, really ruled by Srinagar or is it in my suspicion, ruled by New Delhi? (just as Azad Kashmir held by Pakistan is ruled by Islamabad despite placing a goverment in the area) 2) Rightfully you suggest that Kashmiri pundits are involved in the future- therefore should this not be suggested to the many people that fled Srinagar and the valley to go to Pakistan? My proposal considering the general refusal by India to budge on self-determination and Pakistan's refusal to have a LoC as permanent border is one of the two solutions:- 1) Have Azad Kashmir and Kashmir valley independent state with India and Pakistan having a say in the area 2) ...or demilitarise whole state of J&K including Northern Areas, Jammu and Ladakh and have joint soverignty in the area with people from or originially from the state having freedom to move across the area
hassan_113 Posted April 15, 2009 Posted April 15, 2009 Usually separatists after sepration complain that borders are not open for easy transfer of labour force.. That's what palestinains keep complainign about separate state but open border so that they can come and go whenever they want into Israel.. I say you can't have it both ways.. As Farukkh Abdullah noticed Kahsmir will nto eb able to sustain even for a day without acess to india and indian market.. I am sure if kashmir gets indepndence they will start cryign next about how India has put trade barriers.. Come up with a better example than this crook from a generation of crooks please! That wimp ran away when the trouble was on and returned when things died down a bit- wimp mentality. If it's about markets- lets just say that Srinagar is a lot closer to Rawalpindi and Islamabad than it is to New Delhi :D :two_thumbs_up: Omar Abdullah and co...try spending more than 15 nights a year in Srinagar (rather than most in Delhi)- and lets see how you think life is.
veeru_rocks Posted April 15, 2009 Author Posted April 15, 2009 Come up with a better example than this crook from a generation of crooks please! That wimp ran away when the trouble was on and returned when things died down a bit- wimp mentality. If it's about markets- lets just say that Srinagar is a lot closer to Rawalpindi and Islamabad than it is to New Delhi :D :two_thumbs_up: Omar Abdullah and co...try spending more than 15 nights a year in Srinagar (rather than most in Delhi)- and lets see how you think life is. Mr moron Omar Abdullah is CM democratically elected not like your pakistani style election .. And any day Abdullah family is more popular than jinnah and his *****$wipe in kashmir
veeru_rocks Posted April 15, 2009 Author Posted April 15, 2009 Sree_india, Pathans from SWAT and Kashmiris are totally different people if you look at history. Pathans are very difficult people- although hot blooded and warrior-like, they often don't use their heads! Kashmiris are a more level-headed population, yet emotional in other ways. Punter, Mr. Kashmir speaks! :D As you can imagine- Kashmir has been a contentious issue for so many years- and violence is not the best way to solve it. However, there are Kashmiri youth- generation after generation- that do not want Indian union. Indian government believes a high election turnout in the valley = call for Indian union...not the case as you can confirm Punter. The people are voting for bread-and-butter issues but this is no substitute for self-determination. These days it would be called a '2nd partition' if Kashmir valley was handed over to Pakistan and Jammu and Ladakh to India thus India's government will not allow this, which is fair enough from the Indian perspective. I compare the Kashmir valley being ruled by India akin to asking people in England to be ruled by the French....maybe that should be suggested to Gordon Brown and David Miliband. Kashmir never had anything culturally, religiously or ethnically in common with India. A few points I ask:- 1) Is Jammu and Kashmir, currently held by India, really ruled by Srinagar or is it in my suspicion, ruled by New Delhi? (just as Azad Kashmir held by Pakistan is ruled by Islamabad despite placing a goverment in the area) 2) Rightfully you suggest that Kashmiri pundits are involved in the future- therefore should this not be suggested to the many people that fled Srinagar and the valley to go to Pakistan? My proposal considering the general refusal by India to budge on self-determination and Pakistan's refusal to have a LoC as permanent border is one of the two solutions:- 1) Have Azad Kashmir and Kashmir valley independent state with India and Pakistan having a say in the area 2) ...or demilitarise whole state of J&K including Northern Areas, Jammu and Ladakh and have joint soverignty in the area with people from or originially from the state having freedom to move across the area You need to revisit those words culture and ethnicity .. it seems you were fed some nonsense.. kashmir has been abode of Hindu saints since millenium.. mulaahs entered with their sword in recent past
Recommended Posts