flamy Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 dude i am serious... this belief in the paranormal' date=' the alleged supernatural is a ball chain that is responsible for preventing us from runaway growth...[/quote'] :D For me, there is nothing supernatural about spirits. They are as natural as you and me. The universe is a conscious universe. I have had enough evidence (absolutely intangible :proud:) in my life. I'm not saying haunted houses, possessed beings etc. Those are very trivial. Our mind is very powerful and we both agree on this. And we create our own reality. By some unfortunate series of events :winky:, if I do happen upon some 'evidence', it would still not be enough. You create your own reality as do I. If my intent is to find miracles, I will. And if your intent is to rebuff any aberration from the scientific norm, so it shall be. Aren't there too many accidents in scientific discovery?
Kohum Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 :D For me, there is nothing supernatural about spirits. They are as natural as you and me. The universe is a conscious universe. I have had enough evidence (absolutely intangible :proud:) in my life. I'm not saying haunted houses, possessed beings etc. Those are very trivial. Our mind is very powerful and we both agree on this. And we create our own reality. By some unfortunate series of events :winky:, if I do happen upon some 'evidence', it would still not be enough. You create your own reality as do I. If my intent is to find miracles, I will. And if your intent is to rebuff any aberration from the scientific norm, so it shall be. Aren't there too many accidents in scientific discovery? Couldn't have put it any better than this !! You rock flamy !! :icflove::icflove::icflove:
DomainK Posted May 10, 2009 Author Posted May 10, 2009 :D For me, there is nothing supernatural about spirits. They are as natural as you and me. The universe is a conscious universe. I have had enough evidence (absolutely intangible :proud:) in my life. I'm not saying haunted houses, possessed beings etc. Those are very trivial. Our mind is very powerful and we both agree on this. And we create our own reality. By some unfortunate series of events :winky:, if I do happen upon some 'evidence', it would still not be enough. You create your own reality as do I. If my intent is to find miracles, I will. And if your intent is to rebuff any aberration from the scientific norm, so it shall be. Aren't there too many accidents in scientific discovery? Good post.:two_thumbs_up:
flamy Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 Couldn't have put it any better than this !! You rock flamy !! :icflove::icflove::icflove: :icflove::icflove::icflove:
mainhoonna Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 well I used to go to this beach near Melbourne after mid night for a smoke .. yes I used to drive 100kms one way to have a smoke at this particular beach . One day it was very quiet and I was just talking to my friend when suddenly he ran and sat in the car ... I opened the other door to ask him what happened.. I was relaxed and thought his phone was ringing or something like that. While I was opening the door I felt someone put his hand on shoulder .. I turned and didnt see anybody. I didnt know what to do and then suddenly the wind picked up .. I still wanst convinced that it was bhoot but then I saw my friend sweating ... then suddenly I started shivering and feeling very cold... I was sweating as well and then I just sat in the car drove away ...For the next 30 mins I couldnt stop shivering and sweating at the same time ... That night I was not scared but in shock .. when I couldnt sleep for 2 -3 hrs couldnt close my eyes then I started feeling scared ... I could remember what had happened .. next day I got up around 9 and then sat on my bed for 3 hrs .. it felt like I was sitting for seconds but it was for hrs ... btw I still refused to believe that it was bhoot but then I saw a hand print on my shoulder which didnt go away for 2-3 days ..................... :hatsoff: That gave me goosebumps.
mainhoonna Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 However in India ,mental illness can sometimes masquerade as the supernatural.One of my relatives had a nervous breakdown with all the stress during her daughters wedding .Since Indians don't get mental illness,it was agreed by all that there was a bura saaya on her.She is(before marriage) from a neighbouring village which was predominantly muslim before partition and still has a functioning sufi mazar.So the muslim priestess from that mazar came to our village and did her toona-tootka ,got rid of the bad spirits and everything was ok after that. It was all rather weird and wonderful.
DomainK Posted May 10, 2009 Author Posted May 10, 2009 However in India ,mental illness can sometimes masquerade as the supernatural.One of my relatives had a nervous breakdown with all the stress during her daughters wedding .Since Indians don't get mental illness,it was agreed by all that there was a bura saaya on her.She is(before marriage) from a neighbouring village which was predominantly muslim before partition and still has a functioning sufi mazar.So the muslim priestess from that mazar came to our village and did her toona-tootka ,got rid of the bad spirits and everything was ok after that. It was all rather weird and wonderful. Not only India, it happens in a lot of places. Most under developed places have such superstitions.
Desi Cartman Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 Not only India' date=' it happens in a lot of places. Most under developed places have such superstitions.[/quote'] Even in developed countries people believe in exorcism
THX_1138 Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 :D For me, there is nothing supernatural about spirits. They are as natural as you and me. The universe is a conscious universe. I have had enough evidence (absolutely intangible :proud:) in my life. I'm not saying haunted houses, possessed beings etc. Those are very trivial. Our mind is very powerful and we both agree on this. And we create our own reality. By some unfortunate series of events :winky:, if I do happen upon some 'evidence', it would still not be enough. You create your own reality as do I. If my intent is to find miracles, I will. And if your intent is to rebuff any aberration from the scientific norm, so it shall be. Aren't there too many accidents in scientific discovery? you cannot possibly assume a position of an investigator if you operating with a previous bias. the fact of the matter is that on ever occasion that a miracle has allegedly occurred, there is either no evidence to suggest its actual occurrence, or the phenomenon has been trivially explained. furthermore, the process of verifying alleged miracles is quite straight forward: a 'believer' or as i call them, 'individual predisposed to a supernatural explanation' claims that a miracle has occurred... he/she then approaches an individual with scientific training to seek verification and enforcement of the original explanation... the scientist then attempts to recreate the event, if successful, it is hardly a miracle, and if unsuccessful, attempts to find a most plausible explanation. remarkably, there is yet an incident that has occurred that warrants a supernatural explanation. and thus, the intelligent mind is encouraged to maintain a healthy skepticism of the supernatural and the paranormal. if however, you or anyone for that fact, finds an extraordinary event that can pass the above process unexplained, then the next logical step would be that maybe the event is result of a previously unexplained, or unexamined phenomenon. for instance: in 1066 A.D. when earth last witnessed a supernova that was visible by the naked eye, the event caused considerable dishevel! arguably, a giant illumination in the sky, previously absent, is enough to startle most individuals. thus, the untrained mind at that time credited that event to the supernatural. however, if a similar incident were to occur, and they occur a lot, especially in the fields of astrophysics and high energy physics... rarely if ever, does anyone suggest a supernatural explanation. finally, if you encounter anyone with a belief in ghosts or spirits, understand that it is a manifestation of their own creativity. there have been numerous posts in this thread about alleged "weird phenomenon"... sheer statistics suggest that a remarkably low number of those events actually occurred and the rest are fabrications by the poster to gain attention in the thread, or simply to contribute to what appears to be the general consensus. for the few, if any, events that might actually have occurred, explanations should be trivial once all the details and circumstances of the events are available. if you must still continue to believe in ghosts and fairies, then i suggest a gander over to saj mahmood's site... you will find rich company there.
flamy Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 Yes. Today's miracles are tomorrow's science. And whilst good folk like you are hard at work to unravel the wonderful mysteries, I'm happy to accept the unexplained and play. The old adage of electricity and so on. Ghosts and vampires hardly interest me. I believe most of the exorcisms purge demons created by the person's own mind - an (un)fortunate amalgamation of experiences culminating in an 'evil' manifestation. Trivial - for an observer such as myself. I'm sure it is anything but for the person. Digression. No, my interest lies in the cosmos and thus equivalently in myself. The big questions, as it were. Where? How? Why? What? Why are we all so alike and yet so different? What is consciousness? Is it that familiar observer or the one observing the observer? Evolution is rife with intent. Where has that intent taken seed? Who makes my thoughts? Are our thoughts just the universe thinking about itself? In a world of "ridiculously dumb luck" and placebo effects, I would be short changing myself by discounting an alternate reality - a more expansive reality.
DomainK Posted May 11, 2009 Author Posted May 11, 2009 Yes. Today's miracles are tomorrow's science. And whilst good folk like you are hard at work to unravel the wonderful mysteries, I'm happy to accept the unexplained and play. The old adage of electricity and so on. Ghosts and vampires hardly interest me. I believe most of the exorcisms purge demons created by the person's own mind - an (un)fortunate amalgamation of experiences culminating in an 'evil' manifestation. Trivial - for an observer such as myself. I'm sure it is anything but for the person. Digression. No, my interest lies in the cosmos and thus equivalently in myself. The big questions, as it were. Where? How? Why? What? Why are we all so alike and yet so different? What is consciousness? Is it that familiar observer or the one observing the observer? Evolution is rife with intent. Where has that intent taken seed? Who makes my thoughts? Are our thoughts just the universe thinking about itself? In a world of "ridiculously dumb luck" and placebo effects, I would be short changing myself by discounting an alternate reality - a more expansive reality. I like that curiosity to discover and to know. Whether one believes in God or not, one should not be blind.
varun Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 No. I really don't see a reason for an intellegent force that created and controls the universe. Although science still does not (yet) have all the answers' date=' it is getting us closer to the point where we can define a universal force with no "intelligence.".[/quote'] Funny that we consider ourselves "intelligent" and the universe not so, when we ourselves are a product of the universe. IMO we are no more and no less intelligent than a piece of rock hurtling through space.. (which may or may not consist of parts of the rock that move and consider themselves "intelligent" :cantstop:)
DomainK Posted May 11, 2009 Author Posted May 11, 2009 No. I really don't see a reason for an intellegent force that created and controls the universe. Although science still does not (yet) have all the answers, it is getting us closer to the point where we can define a universal force with no "intelligence." All that said, I do not have the temerity to disrespect folks who have religious beliefs. If they gain solace in prayer, who am I to challenge that? I even know top-notch scientists who are strongly religious - more power to them. You are also driven by a faith although you do not have any proof. Not too different from those who follow a religion or spiritualism.
DomainK Posted May 11, 2009 Author Posted May 11, 2009 Another thing we need to understand that though science, religion and spiritualism are different from each other and can be independent of each other, they are not necessarily completely exclusive of each other. Many mistake religion and spiritualism as the same and many mistake science to be entirely opposite to the other two.
varun Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 Another thing we need to understand that though science' date=' religion and spiritualism are different from each other and can be independent of each other, they are not necessarily completely exclusive of each other. Many mistake religion and spiritualism as the same and many mistake science to be entirely opposite to the other two.[/quote'] Well to be fair, the whole point of Science is to seek accurate predictability of events and leverage that information. Be it physics formulas to predict the trajectory of the ball, predicting the affect of a medicinal pill to cure illnesses, a mathematical equation used to repeatedly move a robot arm in a certain manner.. they all aim to accurately predict what the effect of an action will be (based on observations in the past). Religion and spiritualism on the other hand are more based upon psychological preparedness for the events.. (unpredictable or predictable, like death). The seeking that goes on in religion is of a different kind than science, though as you rightly point out.. science is attempting to answer age-old religious questions too. Science and religion: Shall the twain ever meet ? :((
DomainK Posted May 11, 2009 Author Posted May 11, 2009 Well to be fair, the whole point of Science is to seek accurate predictability of events and leverage that information. Be it physics formulas to predict the trajectory of the ball, predicting the affect of a medicinal pill to cure illnesses, a mathematical equation used to repeatedly move a robot arm in a certain manner.. they all aim to accurately predict what the effect of an action will be (based on observations in the past). Religion and spiritualism on the other hand are more based upon psychological preparedness for the events.. (unpredictable or predictable, like death). The seeking that goes on in religion is of a different kind than science, though as you rightly point out.. science is attempting to answer age-old religious questions too. Science and religion: Shall the twain ever meet ? :(( Yes....accurate predictability is the objective, but the methodology is observation and deduction. Spiritualism is not far away from that. Though the objects of observation may be different. Religion demands a large proportion of blind faith. But spiritualism requires a personal and deep understanding of the seeming activities. That requires study and human intelligence. Science and Spiritualism have a few things in common for sure. Religion, I believe was more or less for implementation of order. As Vivekananda says, Religion is a social institution. It's a protocol to follow for a society. The protocols (all major faiths) were based on the results of observation and deduction in a spiritual way. And since not everyone can understand why certain things are done in a certain way, they are required to follow by blind faith. Like law.....you may or may not understand them, but you got to follow them. Its only with time that religions got traditions and customs that are entirely opposed to logic and when modern science evolved there was a conflict.
THX_1138 Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 Yes. Today's miracles are tomorrow's science. And whilst good folk like you are hard at work to unravel the wonderful mysteries, I'm happy to accept the unexplained and play. The old adage of electricity and so on. Ghosts and vampires hardly interest me. I believe most of the exorcisms purge demons created by the person's own mind - an (un)fortunate amalgamation of experiences culminating in an 'evil' manifestation. Trivial - for an observer such as myself. I'm sure it is anything but for the person. Digression. No, my interest lies in the cosmos and thus equivalently in myself. The big questions, as it were. Where? How? Why? What? Why are we all so alike and yet so different? What is consciousness? Is it that familiar observer or the one observing the observer? Evolution is rife with intent. Where has that intent taken seed? Who makes my thoughts? Are our thoughts just the universe thinking about itself? In a world of "ridiculously dumb luck" and placebo effects, I would be short changing myself by discounting an alternate reality - a more expansive reality. Nein...
THX_1138 Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 Yes. Today's miracles are tomorrow's science. And whilst good folk like you are hard at work to unravel the wonderful mysteries, I'm happy to accept the unexplained and play. The old adage of electricity and so on. Ghosts and vampires hardly interest me. I believe most of the exorcisms purge demons created by the person's own mind - an (un)fortunate amalgamation of experiences culminating in an 'evil' manifestation. Trivial - for an observer such as myself. I'm sure it is anything but for the person. Digression. No, my interest lies in the cosmos and thus equivalently in myself. The big questions, as it were. Where? How? Why? What? Why are we all so alike and yet so different? What is consciousness? Is it that familiar observer or the one observing the observer? Evolution is rife with intent. Where has that intent taken seed? Who makes my thoughts? Are our thoughts just the universe thinking about itself? In a world of "ridiculously dumb luck" and placebo effects, I would be short changing myself by discounting an alternate reality - a more expansive reality. yeah that alternate reality is where we have all embraced islam and enjoy the benefits of 4 wives each... now dont short change yourself by disbelieving this in this alternate reality. wait, i think i have another: in the alternate reality, you and i dont talk about silly little things like alternate realities... now dont shortchange yourself again! inquiry is what drives us forward... yet you are happy to inquire, but simultaneously accept the unexplained? forget that... you seem to assume that there is the unexplained! what made you conclude that? did you exhaust all possible explanations? investigate all approaches of analysis or did you simply spend a few fleeting moments and then chose to veil your ignorance and lethargy by labeling the phenomenon as "explained"?
flamy Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 yeah that alternate reality is where we have all embraced islam and enjoy the benefits of 4 wives each... now dont short change yourself by disbelieving this in this alternate reality. wait, i think i have another: in the alternate reality, you and i dont talk about silly little things like alternate realities... now dont shortchange yourself again! inquiry is what drives us forward... yet you are happy to inquire, but simultaneously accept the unexplained? forget that... you seem to assume that there is the unexplained! what made you conclude that? did you exhaust all possible explanations? investigate all approaches of analysis or did you simply spend a few fleeting moments and then chose to veil your ignorance and lethargy by labeling the phenomenon as "explained"? Well... yes, there definitely is a lot unexplained. Where did the universe come from? Islam is hardly an alternate reality, it is just a social condition. As is all religion. Evolution was an accident?
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