When will we have an express fast bowler?

[vvvslaxman]

first u need to have 'pace'.. control will come with time and experiece...its coz of the same mentality that we nver have genine pace bowlers...

If you don't have accuracy you are not going to get wickets in domestic cricket. If you don't get wickets you are never going to be picked. At the end of the day you need a "performing fast bowler" not just "fast bowler". Ryan Harris clocked 148 k in IPL. Nannes clocked 150 k in T20 world cup. Why do you think they are not playing for Australia? They give weightage to domestic performance.If you can't do zilch in domestic cricket how are you going to do at the top level.

[Fontaine]

You drew an analogy as to how the decline in pace of Ishant and Johnson are a result of fatigue and injury - your entire analogy is false and made up. There hasn't been any perceptible decline in Johnson's pace - if there has been, please point it out because I followed most of the Australian season live.

When Johnson got a 6-7 wickets against SA in Australia he was bowling more and more deliveries around 130, 137, and 140 kph. Go look it up. He still puts in some deliveries that are above 140 and in his usual range. And no, those weren't his slower deliveries as his slow ball is usually around the 120-125 mark.

Regarding the rest of your post, it really was not expressing anything that is not common sense. Obviously fatigue and injuries are going to result in a decline in pace. The question that should be addressed is why the fatigue and injury thresholds of our bowlers is lower than someone like Johnson or Steyn. The underlying reason can be training, rest, and dedication, maybe coaching as well.

Common sense huh? I would rather talk in common sense than make ungrounded accusation like it's Prasad's fault which has been the theme of this thread but you don't seem to point out the flaws in those posts. As far as the fatigue and injury thresholds, who knows unless you're one of the physios who works with these guys. Someone like Pathan hasn't been injured at all for a while but then guys like Sreesanth/RP have and they go with the same coach but obviously have been bowling a different amount of overs/spells.

[afridi6666]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9hcZWVb7PI]YouTube - mitchell johnson bowling great spell injures batsmen as well as great start![/ame] just browse thru the clip, 2 wickets at 145, bouncer at 147, abcd viliiers bouncers at 148, ur not going to intimidate batsmen by bowling at 130

[The Outsider]

When Johnson got a 6-7 wickets against SA in Australia he was bowling more and more deliveries around 130, 137, and 140 kph. Go look it up. He still puts in some deliveries that are above 140 and in his usual range. And no, those weren't his slower deliveries as his slow ball is usually around the 120-125 mark.

Here you go : PD9ISesy5s4 Please let me know the bowling speeds. As far as I could read they were 147, 143, 140, 144, 142, 138, 142, 125(slower ball), 144, 138. These are his normal bowling speeds and most of the wickets were in the last session of the match.

Common sense huh? I would rather talk in common sense than make ungrounded accusation like it's Prasad's fault which has been the theme of this thread but you don't seem to point out the flaws in those posts. As far as the fatigue and injury thresholds, who knows unless you're one of the physios who works with these guys. Someone like Pathan hasn't been injured at all for a while but then guys like Sreesanth/RP have and they go with the same coach but obviously have been bowling a different amount of overs/spells.

Yeah, we don't know the exact reasons for the fatigue and injury thresholds but it's obvious that our bowlers have lower thresholds in general compared to the top notch pacers in the world like Johsnon and Steyn and examining the role of coaching in it is not completely bull, not that I am entirely sold to the idea. I think it's more to do with the individual dedication towards fitness and managing workload.

[Fontaine]

Here you go : PD9ISesy5s4 Please let me know the bowling speeds. As far as I could read they were 147, 143, 140, 144, 142, 138, 142, 125(slower ball), 144, 138. These are his normal bowling speeds and most of the wickets were in the last session of the match.

Normally he bowls at 145 and can hit 150 as well. When you're down by 10kph frequently then it's like saying a medium pace bowler bowling at 75 kph frequently. Look at some of his spells in South Africa and he was usually around 144 plus and not down like above. Either way what exactly is your point? That Johnson isn't affected by fatigue? :hysterical: The same reasoning has been applied for Sharma apprently. At times he's bowled around the 138-142 range which is a little bit slower than before.

[The Outsider]

Normally he bowls at 145 and can hit 150 as well. When you're down by 10kph frequently then it's like saying a medium pace bowler bowling at 75 kph frequently. Look at some of his spells in South Africa and he was usually around 144 plus and not down like above. Either way what exactly is your point? That Johnson isn't affected by fatigue? :hysterical:

The average speed of the 9 deliveries above is 142(not counting the slower ball for obvious reasons). Most of them were bowled in the last session of the day towards the end of the innings when bowlers usually have lower speeds(again for obvious reasons). How is he down by 10 kph given that his average speed is 145(for which you have provided no proof)? Do you need a schooling in basic mathematics as well? The speed guns in South Africa are different from Australia for starters and if you have followed cricket on any consistent basis you would have noticed that speeds of the same bowler can vary from one place to another depending on the speed guns used. My point - that you were wrong about Johnson's speed having gone down by any siginificant amount and he did not reach his fatigue threshold anytime in the last year or so on any consistent basis.

[hassan_113]

The spell in SA- haven't seen that as I was busy with studies. But that's really awesome, wonderful to watch. I'm sure England will produce some flat pancakes. The first test at Cardiff will be a spinning track. Why do India not produce express men? Role models and lack of them + the aggression in the bowling is mostly not there. Sreesanth is good and he can bowl quick but India neglect to pick him. Please don't include Zaheer and Nehra 2003 WC- the high altitude elevates natural speed. Some of the Indian lads can bowl quick but they must not have to play so much.

[Fontaine]

The average speed of the 9 deliveries above is 142(not counting the slower ball for obvious reasons). Most of them were bowled in the last session of the day towards the end of the innings when bowlers usually have lower speeds(again for obvious reasons). How is he down by 10 kph given that his average speed is 145(for which you have provided no proof)? Do you need a schooling in basic mathematics as well?

This isn't a math course dummy it's cricket. It's how consistent you are in your pace and accuracy so if you do want to talk about mathematics then the low scale mean deviation would be a far more accurate measure than you're childish math.

The speed guns in South Africa are different from Australia for starters and if you have followed cricket on any consistent basis you would have noticed that speeds of the same bowler can vary from one place to another depending on the speed guns used.

Duh, thanks captain obvious.

My point - that you were wrong about Johnson's speed having gone down by any siginificant amount and he did not reach his fatigue threshold anytime in the last year or so on any consistent basis.

When did I say his speed was down any significant account?This is all I said about it.

his delivery became more slingy and he wasn't bowling as quick

Let me spell that out for you he wasn't bowling as q u i c k Now did you understand that and the different between significant amount or you need to take basic English and communication courses?

[The Outsider]

This isn't a math course dummy it's cricket. It's how consistent you in your pace and accuracy so if you do want to talk about mathematics then mean deviation would be a far more accurate measure than you're childish math.

What is inconsistent about those numbers? They are reasonably well clustered around the average speed. BTW, you are yet to show me that his average speed is 145 or he was consistently slower during that time.

Duh, thanks captain obvious.

It apparently wasn't obvious to you because you were jumping up and down quoting his numbers in South Africa without any caveat.

When did I say his speed were down any significant account?This is all I said about it. Let me spell that out for you he wasn't bowling as q u i c k Now did you understand that and the different between significant amount or you need to take basic English and communication courses?

No you also said this :

When Johnson got a 6-7 wickets against SA in Australia he was bowling more and more deliveries around 130, 137, and 140 kph. Go look it up.

I looked it up and showed you that you were spouting gibberish. 130 And you also said this :

Normally he bowls at 145 and can hit 150 as well. When you're down by 10kph frequently then it's like saying a medium pace bowler bowling at 75 kph frequently.

Which was also shown as you speaking some more garbage because at worst he was down 2-3 kmph in the last session of the day- given I take your word of his average speed being 145. That sort of decrease is not even worthy of comment even if it is real. When normal people talk of a decline in pace they mean a significant decline, something like 5-8 kmph +. But then who am I to stop you from imagining things and quoting theories on the basis of your fantasies. Carry on.

[Fontaine]

The average speed of the 9 deliveries above is 142(not counting the slower ball for obvious reasons). Most of them were bowled in the last session of the day towards the end of the innings when bowlers usually have lower speeds(again for obvious reasons).

Right so when I said Johnson does bowl slower because of fatigue and you disagreed. And now you're saying the same thing I am, that Johnson does bowl slower when tired. Jeez what a clown you are. Like I said you just like arguing for the sake it.

[Fontaine]

Which was also shown as you speaking some more garbage because at worst he was down 2-3 kmph in the last session of the day- given I take your word of his average speed being 145. That sort of decrease is not even worthy of comment even if it is real. When normal people talk of a decline in pace they mean a significant decline, something like 5-8 kmph +. But then who am I to stop you from imagining things and quoting theories on the basis of your fantasies. Carry on.

Then why did you comment? Like I keep patiently and very slowly explaining to you that Johnson was bowling slower but you assumed it was by a significant margin and went on an entire argument. No wonder you're an outsider with a name like that it makes sense why you keep making things up and having arguments over tiny details. Let me know how that English basics course works out for you, or don't, either way I don't really care.

[The Outsider]

Right so when I said Johnson does bowl slower because of fatigue and you disagreed. And now you're saying the same thing I am, that Johnson does bowl slower when tired. Jeez what a clown you are. Like I said you just like arguing for the sake it.

Can you point to the post where I said Johnson doesn't or will not bowls slower when tired - I obviously don't consider him a superhuman. In fact I said this,

Obviously fatigue and injuries are going to result in a decline in pace. The question that should be addressed is why the fatigue and injury thresholds of our bowlers is lower than someone like Johnson or Steyn. The underlying reason can be training, rest, and dedication, maybe coaching as well.

And you are clown for clinging on to your BS about some 10 kmph decline in Johnson's pace even when there is a video repeatedly slapping you in your face. BTW, do you understand the difference between bowling slower at the end of a day kind of tiredness and an across the board decline in pace because of long term fatigue?

[The Outsider]

Then why did you comment? Like I keep patiently and very slowly explaining to you that Johnson was bowling slower but you assumed it was by a significant margin and went on an entire argument. No wonder you're an outsider with a name like that it makes sense why you keep making things up and having arguments over tiny details. Let me know how that English basics course works out for you, or don't, either way I don't really care.

:hysterical::hysterical: My gut is hurting. A 10 kmph across the board decline vs. a 2-3 kmph decline(at the end of the day when bowlers usually lose pace) or someone bowling 130 vs. 140+ is a tiny detail!! Please carry on embarrasing yourself. I am enjoying it.

[King Tendulkar]

Fontaine has lost the plot here:haha:

[THX_1138]

shows the standard of fast bowlers in US ... let me bowl only 1 over to you and u can say bye bye to ur middle stump... and yes variations exist in fast bowling but the major weapon for a pace bowler is "PACE"... variation is an excuse for those wanna be fast bowlers who are not even fast bowlers...

big words from a tiny man do this: go ahead and post a video of you bowling phhast. and i ll post a video of me playing that phhast bowl. then we will let the experts here determine if i did indeed have to kiss my middle stump good bye.

[King Tendulkar]

big words from a tiny man ... do this: go ahead and post a video of you bowling phhast. and i ll post a video of me playing that phhast bowl. then we will let the experts here determine if i did indeed have to kiss my middle stump good bye.

To be honest Steyn would bowl miles faster then rahulrulezz. And steyn would blow THXs middles stump out of the ground.:haha: Moral of the story India needs an express bowler:cantstop:

[Malcolm Merlyn]

this shameful for 100crore indians that we cant produce an express bowler

[afridi6666]

sunnyj, it is because like fontaine, not every bowler in cricket has to be the same, you need one pacer , forget his line and lengh, all he needs to learn is to bowl fast,short,yorker , u cnat have zaheer khan, pathan, parveen kumar in one line up, if that atul sharma guy exists than batsmen wouldnt stand 2 paces outside the crease

[Guest Gunner]

AFAIK, batting has always been India's strength and we have some good bowlers from time to time. Why on earth are we crying like little b!atches for Phhhhhasssssssttt bowlers is beyond me. To win, you must play to your strengths not enter into pissing contests related to your opponents strengths. If you really want to see what happens to phhhhhhaassssssstttt bowlers, just watch Sachin or Viru dismantle Akhtar, lee et al. Fast bowling is a mule's job, batting is artistry. Choose what you want, I know what I will.

[afridi6666]

AFAIK' date=' batting has always been India's strength and we have some good bowlers from time to time. Why on earth are we crying like little b!atches for Phhhhhasssssssttt bowlers is beyond me. To win, you must play to [b']your strengths not enter into pissing contests related to your opponents strengths. If you really want to see what happens to phhhhhhaassssssstttt bowlers, just watch Sachin or Viru dismantle Akhtar, lee et al. Fast bowling is a mule's job, batting is artistry. Choose what you want, I know what I will.

gooners, watching fast bowlers is exciting, sure you have many good batsmen and akthar did get wacked, but how many times has he hit sachin on the helmet, ganguly in ribs etc.. do you always want india to be thought of as great batting team, and dangerous slow bowlers in harbhajan and mishra ill tell u now, id rather see stump cartwheeling than a spinner clipping top of off