Anonymous Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Kargil forced India to talk Kashmir: Musharraf New Delhi: Terming Kargil as a "big success", former Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf has said India agreed to discuss Kashmir only because of that war in 1999. "Yes, indeed, it was a big success because it had (an) impact even on the attitudes of the Indian side. How did we start discussing the Kashmir dispute? How was it that the Indians agreed that we will discuss Kashmir and there must be a negotiated settlement? Before this there was no such thing at all," Musharraf said in an interview to Karan Thapar in his Devil's Advocate programme. Making a strong defence of the controversial Kargil Operation, he said before that "Kashmir couldn't be spoken of. Kashmir must not be mentioned even in United Nation's speeches by our leaders. This was the Indian side. (So) how did the Indians come on the negotiating table on Kashmir?" On asked whether he would repeat the Kargil Operation, knowing that it ended up raising question marks about him personally, Musharraf replied: "I don't want to comment". He also accepted that forces from the Pakistani Army's Rawalpindi Corps and Force Command Northern Areas (FCNA) were involved in the Kargil Operation contradictory to the country's earlier claim that Kargil was conducted by alleged freedom fighters and the Army was not involved. As written in his book In the Line of Fire, he said, they were "second line forces" but accepted they were commanded by the Army's Rawalpindi Corps and FCNA. "What I have written is final. I am not going to get into the details at all," Musharraf said. Claiming the Kargil Operation ended with Pakistani forces in a "very favourable" position, he said "Because if you are talking about India-Pakistan, Indians had moved all their forces against Kargil and there was (as a result) weakness elsewhere. "So we knew what the Indian forces are capable (of) and what we are capable (of)...the situation was very favourable in Kargil, in Kashmir and on the entire border. We were capable of responding to any Indian action," he said. Asked why he left the decision to Nawaz Sharif and didn't argue against a ceasefire, he said, "One, there was a ground military position, the other is that there was a lot happening internationally. Internationally there was the United States element putting a lot of pressure on the government to stop or whatever. "And then there was the (domestic) political pressure. Whether the political situation was good enough to sustain that pressure. I, therefore, decided to only talk of the military (situation)," he said. source- CNN IBN Bloody hell. I just dont understand how the heck does he have the courage to talk on camera even after the Kargil humiliation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desi Cartman Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 It was success for pak. They didnt lose too many men as compared to India and Kashmir issue was highlighted all over the world. TBH we failed in kargil and we failed in Mumbai. OTOH Pak has only gone downhill since kargil. BTW I dont like reading about Kargil.. It makes me sad and reminds me of what our brave soldiers had to go through. :(( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomainK Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Kargil was the beginning of Pakistan's end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Like most narcisstic men he does not intelligence enough to put things in perspective. As DomainK has mentioned correctly this was the proverbial staw that broke the camel's back. The reason why the skirmish did not escalate into a full-fledged war was because of hectic diplomatic activity behind the scenes that basically involved cajoling India into not attacking and threatening Pakistan with dire consequences. This was, in my opinion, the instance that established Pakistan as a rogue state with Nuclear weapons who does not have it in them to be a responsible nation. The result is for all there to see. Of course Musharraf is busy chanting his fata baja. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graphic23 Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 It was success for pak. They didnt lose too many men as compared to India and Kashmir issue was highlighted all over the world. TBH we failed in kargil and we failed in Mumbai. OTOH Pak has only gone downhill since kargil. BTW I dont like reading about Kargil.. It makes me sad and reminds me of what our brave soldiers had to go through. :(( I believe the figures are that Pakistan lost 10 times more army personnel than India did. Something along the lines of 500 Indian soldiers to 5000. I can't think of 1 reason why you would think India failed at Kargil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomainK Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 1. Yes, Pakistan took more casualties than India did. But since officially Pakistan denied that they were their officials, Pakistan projects a very low figure in casualties. 2. We drove them out of our territory. That's victory. If that is not victory, what is? 3. We allowed them safe passage. That shows us in the position of mercy. That stamps the authoritative victory in the end. And we allowed safe passage to the remaining insects not because we were weak, we did that to bring things to a quick end. We have an economy to run, unlike them. Besides, spanking in public and letting go is a bigger punishment than killing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hassan_113 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 It was success for pak. They didnt lose too many men as compared to India and Kashmir issue was highlighted all over the world. TBH we failed in kargil and we failed in Mumbai. OTOH Pak has only gone downhill since kargil. BTW I dont like reading about Kargil.. It makes me sad and reminds me of what our brave soldiers had to go through. :(( Good points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rahulrulezz Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 It was success for pak. They didnt lose too many men as compared to India and Kashmir issue was highlighted all over the world. TBH we failed in kargil and we failed in Mumbai. OTOH Pak has only gone downhill since kargil. BTW I dont like reading about Kargil.. It makes me sad and reminds me of what our brave soldiers had to go through. :(( WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT D_C.... Kargil War was big Success for India...Musharaf here is trying to save his ass coz he knows he lost big time in Kargil war... All the statements you mentioned are WRONG.... According to Pakistani Media sources and BBC itself, 3000 of thier soldiers were killed.... not only that, N. Sharif, Primeminister that time, mentioned that they were in such a bad position that Pakistan was about to do Nuclear Attack on India... Everyone International community in the world Condemned Pakistan....Pakistan was rediculed everywhere.... and regarding ceasefire, we actually had more land than them....... and due to their Big LOSS in kargil war, Musharaf took over Pakistan... cant believe a guy like you is degrading heroics of our soldiers and saying that Pakistan won it..when Pakistani PrimeMinister himself says that Kargil was big MISTAKE then how can u say Pakistan won it....here are all the neutral and Pakistani media links which tells you that Pakistan lost Kargil war...... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1989886.stm http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?151668 [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwZaDx2OI74]YouTube - Nawaz Sharif: "Kargil Was A Mistake"[/ame] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desi Cartman Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT D_C.... Kargil War was big Success for India...Musharaf here is trying to save his ass coz he knows he lost big time in Kargil war... All the statements you mentioned are WRONG.... According to Pakistani Media sources and BBC itself' date=' 3000 of thier soldiers were killed.... not only that, N. Sharif, Primeminister that time, mentioned that they were in such a bad position that Pakistan was about to do Nuclear Attack on India... Everyone International community in the world Condemned Pakistan....Pakistan was rediculed everywhere.... and regarding ceasefire, we actually had more land than them....... and due to their Big LOSS in kargil war, Musharaf took over Pakistan... cant believe a guy like you is degrading heroics of our soldiers and saying that Pakistan won it..when Pakistani PrimeMinister himself says that Kargil was big MISTAKE then how can u say Pakistan won it....[b']here are all the neutral and Pakistani media links which tells you that Pakistan lost Kargil war...... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1989886.stm http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?151668 Dont go all Neta on me by stating that I degraded the heroics of the Indian army , I never said that . I mentioned that Pak went downhill after kargil --- isnt that right ? We were not prepared - isnt that right ? They came and sat in the Indian controlled territory and we had no clue - isnt that right ? We had to ask USA before using Air force in our country - isnt that right ? We lost more soldiers because of the high posts that pakis had captured - isnt that right ? We couldnt do shyt about this unprovoked attack at the international border, we pushed them back and that was the end of it. what was the follow up ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterTheVoid Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Fled like rats fleeing a sinking ship. Is that what you term a sucess ? Mush is an ar5ehole and can go **** himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desi Cartman Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Fled like rats fleeing a sinking ship. Is that what you term a sucess ? Mush is an ar5ehole and can go **** himself yes in the end they did... success was that they caught India off guard and not prepared. We didnt have a plan till then , the govt was confused and pretty much like 26/11 the govt failed to do something about it .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rahulrulezz Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Dont go all Neta on me by stating that I degraded the heroics of the Indian army , I never said that . I mentioned that Pak went downhill after kargil --- isnt that right ? We were not prepared - isnt that right ? They came and sat in the Indian controlled territory and we had no clue - isnt that right ? We had to ask USA before using Air force in our country - isnt that right ? We lost more soldiers because of the high posts that pakis had captured - isnt that right ? We couldnt do shyt about this unprovoked attack at the international border, we pushed them back and that was the end of it. what was the follow up ? I mentioned that Pak went downhill after kargil --- isnt that right ? You said "It was success for pak." and "we failed in kargil" We were not prepared - isnt that right ? Regarding Kargil, it was mutual agreement between the two countries that both armies will leave the peaks in Winter and come back in Summer... It was always like that before intruders and terrorists with lil support of Pakistani army got there first... So it was more of a 'betraya'l than 'preparedness' They came and sat in the Indian controlled territory and we had no clue - isnt that right ? Yeah but as I mentioned above, it was mutual agreement that both armies will leave the territories in Winter as its very harsh to live there in Winters..so it wasnt Indian army's fault We had to ask USA before using Air force in our country - isnt that right ? Agree We lost more soldiers because of the high posts that pakis had captured - isnt that right ? NO!!!!!!!! This is what I am trying to tell you.. In one of interviews of Nawab Sharif and other Pakistani military spokesmen, Musharaf lied the casuality for propaganda..Pakistan lost more than 4000 soldiers ...link http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/2003/08/17/stories/2003081702900800.htm We couldnt do shyt about this unprovoked attack at the international border, we pushed them back and that was the end of it. what was the follow up ? Yeah, but we taught a great lesson...We got what we wanted..World realized the power of India.... International community rediculed Pakistan.. US started supporting India big time after that. China, who is supposed to best friend of Pakistan, were neutral... So overall it was a victory for us ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desi Cartman Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I mentioned that Pak went downhill after kargil --- isnt that right ? You said "It was success for pak." and "we failed in kargil" We were not prepared - isnt that right ? Regarding Kargil, it was mutual agreement between the two countries that both armies will leave the peaks in Winter and come back in Summer... It was always like that before intruders and terrorists with lil support of Pakistani army got there first... So it was more of a 'betraya'l than 'preparedness' They came and sat in the Indian controlled territory and we had no clue - isnt that right ? Yeah but as I mentioned above, it was mutual agreement that both armies will leave the territories in Winter as its very harsh to live there in Winters..so it wasnt Indian army's fault We had to ask USA before using Air force in our country - isnt that right ? Agree We lost more soldiers because of the high posts that pakis had captured - isnt that right ? NO!!!!!!!! This is what I am trying to tell you.. In one of interviews of Nawab Sharif and other Pakistani military spokesmen, Musharaf lied the casuality for propaganda..Pakistan lost more than 4000 soldiers ...link http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/2003/08/17/stories/2003081702900800.htm We couldnt do shyt about this unprovoked attack at the international border, we pushed them back and that was the end of it. what was the follow up ? Yeah, but we taught a great lesson...We got what we wanted..World realized the power of India.... International community rediculed Pakistan.. US started supporting India big time after that. China, who is supposed to best friend of Pakistan, were neutral... So overall it was a victory for us ... Rahul, The motive behind this was to inflict damage on Indian troops and to bring Kashmir issue to the front page (more importantly he wanted to show Nawaz that army runs the countrry). They achieved both goals by catching us off guard , by bringing Kashmir to the front page. These were the goals set by Musharaff but he didnt realize what impact it will have on pak.. TBH I dont know what pak said since Kargil , at first they said pak army was not involved (we all know it was) then they said that they didnt loose too many men and then Govt came out with different numbers IMO just to embarrass Musharaff. As far as agreements are concerned, yes they ditched India & it showed that we trusted an enemy and we shouldnt have. There should have been some sort of surveillance .. I know its not easy but its something that we took for granted. Paks caught us off guard. Arey if they were to follow all agreements then there wouldnt have been any terrorism in J&k. I beg to differ that it was a victory for us either. It was at best a wake up call for our Govt to be better prepared and to have better contingency plans especially when it came to border situation in Kashmir. PS; I havent said that Indian army was defeated , all I m saying is that we lost way too many men and our sarkar wasnt prepared. I still remember watching our Govt asking USA " can we please use Air force" .. this was at the time when the coffins were coming back from the border and that image is stuck in mind .. I cant get over it.. By failing , I meant that we were not prepared and we havent learnt from it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rahulrulezz Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Rahul, The motive behind this was to inflict damage on Indian troops and to bring Kashmir issue to the front page (more importantly he wanted to show Nawaz that army runs the countrry). They achieved both goals by catching us off guard , by bringing Kashmir to the front page. These were the goals set by Musharaff but he didnt realize what impact it will have on pak.. TBH I dont know what pak said since Kargil , at first they said pak army was not involved (we all know it was) then they said that they didnt loose too many men and then Govt came out with different numbers IMO just to embarrass Musharaff. As far as agreements are concerned, yes they ditched India & it showed that we trusted an enemy and we shouldnt have. There should have been some sort of surveillance .. I know its not easy but its something that we took for granted. Paks caught us off guard. Arey if they were to follow all agreements then there wouldnt have been any terrorism in J&k. I beg to differ that it was a victory for us either. It was at best a wake up call for our Govt to be better prepared and to have better contingency plans especially when it came to border situation in Kashmir. PS; I havent said that Indian army was defeated , all I m saying is that we lost way too many men and our sarkar wasnt prepared. I still remember watching our Govt asking USA " can we please use Air force" .. this was at the time when the coffins were coming back from the border and that image is stuck in mind .. I cant get over it.. By failing , I meant that we were not prepared and we havent learnt from it Valid Points .. I agree with your opinion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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