Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting

[Bumper]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting

Heck even the fake match winner Lara, has 153* to show against his name, albeit the only one.

bumper, Warne or Mark Waugh of all slip fielders, dont remember exactly, dropped Lara 15 runs from victory. If Akram had dropped Tendulkar off Saqlain?

Thats why Lara is a fake match winner :hic: Ifs and buts, over a 18 year career doesnt work Shwetabh. I think SRT had numerous opportunities to correct my perception. He failed in every single one of them. Good bat, yes, but not one of the greatest test bats, in my books.

[Holysmoke]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting what about the century at perth

[Bumper]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting What about it ? Century at Perth, Sydney, Bloomfontein etc will hardly be remembered after 10 years, for they had little or no impact in the outcome of the game. Besides there are many players who have scored centuries on these grounds. Nothing extraordinary or "great" about any of these knocks. Good knocks, tho, but NOT worthy of a supposedly great player.

[yoda]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting For a guy who is supposed to the greatest of all time, we shouldn't have to argue to come up with ONE great match turning/winning test knock. Yea, it is a bowler's game, it is a team game, yada yada yada. But still, great players come up with great performances even in a team game, not just in cricket, but in other team sports as well and they do it more than once in a career spanning 17 years.

[dial_100]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting Coming back to topic. I think I was watching this SRT video there and they were suggesting that players like SRT will always be on top. Remember they have short hands so their swing is quicker than the bigger guys. Big guys can make quick impression but I still dont want to deny that Bradman, Border, Gavaskr, Lara, Ponting and SRT are all dummans... they are all short guys and are on top 6 spots in the overall tally... That summarizes every thing.

[Bumper]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting

BTW' date=' if not for bhajji's hattrick and 2 crucial wkts by tendu, by your own logic 281 would've been just another selfish knock, on 2nd thought it might not be because it belonged to someone else :chin:[/quote'] U need bowler's contributions to win every test match, as a test aint won, without 20 wickets. 281, inspite of Dravid's 180 (supportive knock), was the single biggest influential knock in the test. I dont even need to describe the odds here. (If u invested $10 on India's victory when Laxman started, u'd be a millionaire by the end of the game). Facing the prospect of a test series loss, against one of the great test sides ever, which has set a world record for a winning streak, 2nd innings, huge deficit, following on (need i add more variables). To put it simply, we were in deep sh.yte. To win from there, is unthinkable. Thats why 281 is special.

[Anakin]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting The thing is he did play quite a few superb knocks under pressure, but few were in saving causes, and others were in losing causes. It's not his fault if the team chokes during those innings. As I said, those knocks mentioned by bumper were just as good plus the team didn't choke. The point is he did play gems like those.

[Bumper]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting

Coming back to topic. I think I was watching this SRT video there and they were suggesting that players like SRT will always be on top. Remember they have short hands so their swing is quicker than the bigger guys. Big guys can make quick impression but I still dont want to deny that Bradman, Border, Gavaskr, Lara, Ponting and SRT are all dummans... they are all short guys and are on top 6 spots in the overall tally... That summarizes every thing.

Good summary. But what did it summarise ? :hic:

[Bumper]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting

The thing is he did play quite a few superb knocks under pressure' date=' but few were in saving causes, and others were in losing causes. It's not his fault if the team chokes during those innings. As I said, those knocks mentioned by bumper were just as good plus the team didn't choke. The point is he did play gems like those.[/quote'] Anakin u are clutching at straws here. What about the numerous opportunities when India could have won, that he blew away ? 18 years is too long a career to not have ONE knock worthy of greatness. Like yoda said, all great players in all sports have won something. Lemme understand this logic, when SRT scores and the team hasnt won, its the team's fault. But when the team needs him and SRT isnt there, its not SRT's fault ?

[Anakin]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting

Anakin u are clutching at straws here. What about the numerous opportunities when India could have won, that he blew away ? 18 years is too long a career to not have ONE knock worthy of greatness. Like yoda said, all great players in all sports have won something. Lemme understand this logic, when SRT scores and the team hasnt won, its the team's fault. But when the team needs him and SRT isnt there, its not SRT's fault ?

The point is SRT played same quality knocks, like it or not, but the result didn't turn out to your criteria. Doesn't make the knocks any less worthy. Looks like you're saying all SRT's runs were not not needed by the team, and when the team needed he didn't score (just wondering, when the team didn't need his runs to begin with).

[Bumper]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting Every run scored by every player is needed by the team. Doesnt make everyone great. Team needs him = Big occassion, Big game, desperate situation, cannot count on mortals to raise to the occassion, only big players can be counted on.

[The Outsider]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting

18 years is too long a career to not have ONE knock worthy of greatness

You keep on shifting your parameters of great knocks. Ponting's 156 in the drawn Old Trafford test is one example. I think it was a great knock, probably his best till date. I am taking Ponting's example because the thread is on Tendulkar and I dont want any biased opinios. For someone to stay put in front of a varied pace attack on a very up and down pitch, awesome!! But Ponting did get out 3-4 overs before the match was drawn and all those years in training McGrath to defend a few balls by Waugh came to decide the match. Point is great knocks are played not only when your team wins, specially in tests because you HAVE to take 20 wickets to win a test. Point number 2 is that the result of a match is a reflection of the culture of a team at some level too. Dont you think that Australian tailenders with 4 wickets in hand would have score the 17 runs needed to win the Chennai test if Ponting had got out forcing the pace against Saqlain?

[Anakin]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting

Every run scored by every player is needed by the team. Doesnt make everyone great. Team needs him = Big occassion, Big game, desperate situation, cannot count on mortals to raise to the occassion, only big players can be counted on.

Again, he did play few knocks like the ones you're talking about except the results don't meet your criteria. That unbeaten 100 was a superb knock and he saved the match with prabhakar, he was the only one to stand upto the OZ attack in Perth IIRC (and there are few others like that one), his assault on the OZs set up the whole series in 98, played superb knocks against them in 01 as well and a good one last time. His 241 in Sydney wasn't as aggressive, but it did set up the match as well, except the bowlers, umpires and pp didn't let the result go our way. The problem is you're fixed to the result, and in the process you're forgetting that the quality of those innings was no less than the ones you're talking about. As I said even after he got out against pak, the others should've finished the job. I don't see how you can say that's not as good as your other innings.

[Anakin]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting

Point is great knocks are played not only when your team wins' date=' specially in tests because you HAVE to take 20 wickets to win a test. [/quote'] Exactly

[The Outsider]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting

his assault on the OZs set up the whole series in 98

Agree with the rest of your post, but IMHO Sidhu was the first man who took Warne apart in the test series though Tendulkar had showed it can be done in the Mumbai-Aus match.

[Anakin]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting

his assault on the OZs set up the whole series in 98

Agree with the rest of your post, but IMHO Sidhu was the first man who took Warne apart in the test series though Tendulkar had showed it can be done in the Mumbai-Aus match.

Wasn't he taken apart in the practice match

[The Outsider]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting

his assault on the OZs set up the whole series in 98

Agree with the rest of your post, but IMHO Sidhu was the first man who took Warne apart in the test series though Tendulkar had showed it can be done in the Mumbai-Aus match.

Wasn't he taken apart in the practice match

Wahi to bola Avi yaar, par test mein pehli baar Sidhu ne hi maari Warne ki.

[Bumper]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting

18 years is too long a career to not have ONE knock worthy of greatness

You keep on shifting your parameters of great knocks. Ponting's 156 in the drawn Old Trafford test is one example. I think it was a great knock, probably his best till date. I am taking Ponting's example because the thread is on Tendulkar and I dont want any biased opinios. For someone to stay put in front of a varied pace attack on a very up and down pitch, awesome!! But Ponting did get out 3-4 overs before the match was drawn and all those years in training McGrath to defend a few balls by Waugh came to decide the match.

Where did i shift the parameters ? I clearly laid out the criteria & also gave examples for the kinda knocks am looking for. I didnt bring Punter's knocks as examples (there are many), simply because Aussies have a waaay better attack & they win all the time. That wouldnt be a straight forward apples to apples comparison.

Point is great knocks are played not only when your team wins, specially in tests because you HAVE to take 20 wickets to win a test.

Yes such memorable knocks may be played even in tests that arent won. If this is the only kinda knocks Punter played in his career, would u accept him as a great player. Heck even now, we dont accept him alongside SRT & Lara (for reasons unknown to me). Isnt it ODD if u dont find even one great (by the criteria i listed) knock in a winning cause in a career spanning 18 years ?

Point number 2 is that the result of a match is a reflection of the culture of a team at some level too. Dont you think that Australian tailenders with 4 wickets in hand would have score the 17 runs needed to win the Chennai test if Ponting had got out forcing the pace against Saqlain?

Which culture do u think Dravid, Laxman, Sunny, GRV represent ?

[The Outsider]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting

Where did i shift the parameters ? I clearly laid out the criteria & also gave examples for the kinda knocks am looking for.

Good bowling attacks, for example. The Dravidathon at Adelaide did not have McGrath and Warne.

If this is the only kinda knocks Punter played in his career, would u accept him as a great player.

I accept Ponting as a great batsman even before this post or your arguments. There is no denying Ponting is a great batsman IMO.

Heck even now, we dont accept him alongside SRT & Lara (for reasons unknown to me).

My personal point of view is that both are better because they scored when their team sucked and scored in very alien conditions.

Isnt it ODD if u dont find even one great (by the criteria i listed) knock in a winning cause in a career spanning 18 years ?

Bumper, yaar, I can define some arbitrary criterias by which none of Ponting's knocs would qualify. At these times we have to resort to guys who were awestruck by Tendulkar in Aus in '92 or by the greatest batsman of alltime including him in his all time XI and none of the contemporary player.

Which culture do u think Dravid, Laxman, Sunny, GRV represent ?

The same culture and I can point to many knocks by these guys which went in vain, nothing more biting than the 221 Gavaskar score at the Oval to see India draw the match with 8 runs remaining and two wickets in hand after he left the crease with 40 odd remaining and 7 wickets in hand. And that is the second best knock played by an Indian IMO, even though India did not win that test.

[ali0786]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting Shwetab, Just cuz their team sucked and Ponting's didnt, doesnt mean that Ponting cant be alongside them. IMO Ponting has been the best batsman over the past 3-4 years.