Easy to do it without emotions

[coverpoint]

So I was thinking, Indian cricket along with Pakistan and WI is almost as much in doldrums as is English cricket. So watching England play yesterday, it was clear to me that some wholesale changes in their batting are needed. They look at their team, and pick out Pieterson, Collingwood, Bopara and Flintoff and in my view can easily sack the rest of the team. Vaughn, Strauss, Bell, Nixon and all the bowlers should all go. They start with the above 4 players and then look at the rest of their county structure + these discards and create a new young team. Invest in youth and have a competitive team by 2011. See easy. Unfortunately we cant do the same with India. We cant say Pick YS, Dhoni and maybe Dravid as a batsman and then sack pretty much everyone else and start afresh. Why? Because we are emotionally invested in the players more than we are in the team as a whole. We know the right thing for the future (and future now has to be seen as the next world cup) is to start young with a new coach (not Shastri and Venky) but do we have the balls to do it? You tell me!

[kabira]

Re: Easy to do it without emotions Why would you drop Strauss and Nixon...Strauss did ok in whatever chances he got in the WC.

[coverpoint]

Re: Easy to do it without emotions

Why would you drop Strauss and Nixon...Strauss did ok in whatever chances he got in the WC.

Because OK isnt good enough. Thats our problem we allow 'OK' to keep going. You dont build a champion team with 'OK' players and the time for them (and us) to do something about the teams is NOW. You invest in youth now and reap the benefits later

[Lurker]

Re: Easy to do it without emotions

We know the right thing for the future (and future now has to be seen as the next world cup) is to start young with a new coach (not Shastri and Venky) but do we have the balls to do it? You tell me!

No we dont. The English have it easy. They do not have to worry about how someone like SRT has served his country for 18 years..or 15 years by Ganguly and so on. Like I say sometimes, we, as a nation, excel in making excuses. And when we can not make excuses for ourselves we make them for others too! By the way I am not quite sure how Yuvraj or Dhoni are a shoo-in in LOI format. They are both decent bats but have hardly proved themselves against the toughest teams. They making to Indian team is more a case of choosing the lesser evil rather than anything else. xxx

[yoda]

Re: Easy to do it without emotions There is no quick fix. Youth is not the answer. Performance is.

[coverpoint]

Re: Easy to do it without emotions

There is no quick fix. Youth is not the answer. Performance is.

Huzoor, but performance ko kya pant se nikalenge? See we know what the existing maharathis (ours and the pommies) can do. Unless Youth is given a chance to grow and face some international pressure how will we find whether they can perform or not? The problems facing the Poms and us are similar. Both have a rather mediocre domestic structure among other things. You give the youth a bit of time to grow

[kabira]

Re: Easy to do it without emotions You are right.. We need to organize lot of A tours to different places and let our youth go thru the process. We select those who pass this tests 1) Brilliant in Domestic 2) Decent in A tours (atleast 2-3 tours) than he gets big promotion 3) Indian Cap

[yoda]

Re: Easy to do it without emotions

There is no quick fix. Youth is not the answer. Performance is.

Huzoor, but performance ko kya pant se nikalenge? See we know what the existing maharathis (ours and the pommies) can do. Unless Youth is given a chance to grow and face some international pressure how will we find whether they can perform or not? The problems facing the Poms and us are similar. Both have a rather mediocre domestic structure among other things. You give the youth a bit of time to grow

Deserving youth should be given an extended run and under-performing "maharathis" should be sent packing, yes. We need a good mix of youth with talent and performing maharathis with experience.

[coverpoint]

Re: Easy to do it without emotions

You are right.. We need to organize lot of A tours to different places and let our youth go thru the process. We select those who pass this tests 1) Brilliant in Domestic 2) Decent in A tours (atleast 2-3 tours) than he gets big promotion 3) Indian Cap

Obviously that is a good and balanced approach. Unfortunately knowing the kind of society we have that doesnt work. Seniors dont allow the youngsters a chance to succeed. A noob who is trying to establish himself usually gets a look in at #6 in our team ... comes in in high pressure situations and usually gets dumped quickly. See the issue is that we dont have the finished products in India that Aussies produce. We get players who need time. And they need that time without the additional pressure. The maharathis (like SRT ) are so focussed on their own positions that they wont allow the noobs a chance. So When SRT is so focussed on opening the batting how will he allow a new player to settle in. We need a clean slate. Start afresh .... be willing to give up a few games early to gain the benefits in the future.

[chanakya]

Re: Easy to do it without emotions

We need a clean slate. Start afresh .... be willing to give up a few games early to gain the benefits in the future.

How many games should be given. that is a number which you have to identify both as a fan as well as against What opposition and where

[Chandan]

Re: Easy to do it without emotions

Obviously that is a good and balanced approach. Unfortunately knowing the kind of society we have that doesnt work. Seniors dont allow the youngsters a chance to succeed. A noob who is trying to establish himself usually gets a look in at #6 in our team ... comes in in high pressure situations and usually gets dumped quickly. See the issue is that we dont have the finished products in India that Aussies produce. We get players who need time. And they need that time without the additional pressure. The maharathis (like SRT ) are so focussed on their own positions that they wont allow the noobs a chance. So When SRT is so focussed on opening the batting how will he allow a new player to settle in. We need a clean slate. Start afresh .... be willing to give up a few games early to gain the benefits in the future.

What proof do you have that SRT does it? Stop talking rubbish and come back with a plan if you have one!

[The Outsider]

Re: Easy to do it without emotions

Seniors dont allow the youngsters a chance to succeed. A noob who is trying to establish himself usually gets a look in at #6 in our team ...

Chandan, thats true with every team. Unless you are an opening batsman, number 6 is where a middle order batsman starts in most teams. Pietersen, Clarke, Hussey among the recent success stories all started at 6.

[coverpoint]

Re: Easy to do it without emotions

Obviously that is a good and balanced approach. Unfortunately knowing the kind of society we have that doesnt work. Seniors dont allow the youngsters a chance to succeed. A noob who is trying to establish himself usually gets a look in at #6 in our team ... comes in in high pressure situations and usually gets dumped quickly. See the issue is that we dont have the finished products in India that Aussies produce. We get players who need time. And they need that time without the additional pressure. The maharathis (like SRT ) are so focussed on their own positions that they wont allow the noobs a chance. So When SRT is so focussed on opening the batting how will he allow a new player to settle in. We need a clean slate. Start afresh .... be willing to give up a few games early to gain the benefits in the future.

What proof do you have that SRT does it? Stop talking rubbish and come back with a plan if you have one!

ooh a fiesty one. I am having an affair with Tendulkar's wife and she told me. You know, rather than attack the messenger you could respond back with your own ideas. We all form our opinions based on reading reports and performing analysis. SRT wanted to open despite being repeatedly told by his captain coach that he was needed in the middle order. You can blindly worship him and that is your choice. And in the mean time feel free to post your own rubbish ideas.

[Chandan]

Re: Easy to do it without emotions I've expressed my ideas on several threads and don't intend to repeat my posts. And please stop giving those rubbish ideas. If SRT would've wanted to only open, no one could have stopped him from doing so. But he acted in team's interest. He had done the same thing 5 years back too. If you'd have read John Wright's book you'd have known about it. And if I worshiped Tendulkar, I wouldn't have asked for him to be dropped from the ODI side. So please surf around through the threads before mouthing off.

[Chandan]

Re: Easy to do it without emotions

Seniors dont allow the youngsters a chance to succeed. A noob who is trying to establish himself usually gets a look in at #6 in our team ...

Chandan, thats true with every team. Unless you are an opening batsman, number 6 is where a middle order batsman starts in most teams. Pietersen, Clarke, Hussey among the recent success stories all started at 6.

I agree that most of the young batsman have to start at #6 because no body knows how they'd perform in those earlier matches. But to say that the seniors keep them there to keep their positions safe is downright stupid!

[head coach]

Re: Easy to do it without emotions

do we have the balls to do it? You tell me!

No, we don't. Cricket sells hot in India because of these Idol worship. If we replace these Idols then it takes time to build devotees and make someone a demi-God. BCCI cannot lose the current interest and cash flow therefore it is not easy to take these superstars out of the team. Money brings you power Man... Coverpoint, good post! :wtg:

[jf1gp_1]

Re: Easy to do it without emotions Even though i agree with the whole invest in youth part but you cant just dump every senior. Remember these seniors were once youth and we invested in them back then so that they repay that investment. Going by that same logic if we pick new players today once they have some sort of experience it would be time to dump them and bring in new players. Yes pick new players now so that they are ready in next 4 yrs but the criteria from dropping a senior players should be performance, consistency and effectiveness not Age. You cannot drop anyone based on there performance in WC cause then you will have to drop the whole team except maybe Sehwag. You have to look at every player and see if he has something more to offer. As the OP said can we do it with emotions answer is NO.

[Mandrake]

Re: Easy to do it without emotions

You cannot drop anyone based on there performance in WC cause then you will have to drop the whole team except maybe Sehwag. You have to look at every player and see if he has something more to offer. As the OP said can we do it with emotions answer is NO.

Why is that a problem?If peformance is the criteria then most should get the boot.Players need to be held accountable for this pathetic performance in cricket's premier tournament.Also...you got to remember that it was not just the WC...this group has been sucking for quite some time.The WC was just the final nail in the coffin.Whichever way you look at it,this jaded team needs an overhaul.

[jf1gp_1]

Re: Easy to do it without emotions

Why is that a problem?If peformance is the criteria then most should get the boot.Players need to be held accountable for this pathetic performance in cricket's premier tournament.Also...you got to remember that it was not just the WC...this group has been sucking for quite some time.The WC was just the final nail in the coffin.Whichever way you look at it,this jaded team needs an overhaul.

So is sending India A to BD and then eng is your solution ??

[King Tendulkar]

Re: Easy to do it without emotions

Obviously that is a good and balanced approach. Unfortunately knowing the kind of society we have that doesnt work. Seniors dont allow the youngsters a chance to succeed. A noob who is trying to establish himself usually gets a look in at #6 in our team ... comes in in high pressure situations and usually gets dumped quickly. See the issue is that we dont have the finished products in India that Aussies produce. We get players who need time. And they need that time without the additional pressure. The maharathis (like SRT ) are so focussed on their own positions that they wont allow the noobs a chance. So When SRT is so focussed on opening the batting how will he allow a new player to settle in. We need a clean slate. Start afresh .... be willing to give up a few games early to gain the benefits in the future.

What proof do you have that SRT does it? Stop talking rubbish and come back with a plan if you have one!

Agreed cr#p post!