How does McGrath deliver all the time ?

[kumble_rocks]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? In my opinion , Wasim is the undoubtedly the most talented Left hand bowler ever. After all he could bowl 6 different bowls in a over. But , Mcgrath is a better bowler because of his consistency. His stats speaks for themselves.

[Bumper]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? Some numbers for Munda. McGrath owns Akram in every country Tests [code:83bda0afd4] (6 ball overs) Mat O R W BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10 overall 124 4874.4 12186 563 8/24 10/27 21.64 2.49 51.9 29 3 104 3771.1 9779 414 7/119 11/110 23.62 2.59 54.6 25 5 v Australia 0 - - - - - - - - - - 13 498.2 1288 50 6/62 11/160 25.76 2.58 59.8 4 1 v Bangladesh 2 55.1 124 5 3/20 4/45 24.80 2.24 66.2 0 0 2 21.4 54 0 - - - 2.49 - 0 0 v England 30 1213.2 3286 157 8/38 9/82 20.92 2.70 46.3 10 0 18 663.4 1748 57 6/67 9/103 30.66 2.63 69.8 2 0 v ICC World XI 1 18 42 3 2/34 3/42 14.00 2.33 36.0 0 0 0 - - - - - - - - - - v India 11 426.2 951 51 5/48 10/103 18.64 2.23 50.1 2 1 12 488 1299 45 5/96 7/142 28.86 2.66 65.0 2 0 v New Zealand 14 571.1 1444 57 6/115 7/89 25.33 2.52 60.1 2 0 9 421 1021 60 7/119 11/179 17.01 2.42 42.1 6 2 v Pakistan 17 639.1 1736 80 8/24 9/68 21.70 2.71 47.9 3 0 0 - - - - - - - - - - v South Africa 17 680.2 1558 57 6/86 8/49 27.33 2.29 71.6 2 0 4 141 387 13 4/42 5/88 29.76 2.74 65.0 0 0 v Sri Lanka 8 304.4 823 37 5/37 7/61 22.24 2.70 49.4 2 0 19 545.4 1340 63 5/43 8/73 21.26 2.45 51.9 3 0 v West Indies 23 912.3 2132 110 6/17 10/27 19.38 2.33 49.7 8 2 17 591.4 1645 79 6/61 11/110 20.82 2.78 44.9 4 1 v Zimbabwe 1 54 90 6 3/44 6/90 15.00 1.66 54.0 0 0 10 400.1 997 47 6/48 10/106 21.21 2.49 51.0 4 1 in Australia 66 2638.1 6483 289 8/24 10/27 22.43 2.45 54.7 11 2 9 348.3 866 36 6/62 11/160 24.05 2.48 58.0 3 1 in Bangladesh 0 - - - - - - - - - - 2 23.4 83 5 3/33 5/78 16.60 3.50 28.4 0 0 in England 14 578.1 1683 87 8/38 9/82 19.34 2.91 39.8 8 0 14 564.3 1523 53 6/67 9/103 28.73 2.69 63.9 2 0 in India 8 313.2 703 33 4/18 7/121 21.30 2.24 56.9 0 0 8 283.2 748 27 5/96 5/129 27.70 2.64 62.9 1 0 in New Zealand 6 241.4 552 30 6/115 7/89 18.40 2.28 48.3 1 0 7 342.1 859 50 7/119 11/179 17.18 2.51 41.0 6 2 in Pakistan 5 201 589 19 5/66 5/106 31.00 2.93 63.4 1 0 41 1312 3423 154 6/48 10/106 22.22 2.60 51.1 8 1 in South Africa 8 305.2 685 29 6/86 8/49 23.62 2.24 63.1 2 0 2 101 273 7 3/70 4/166 39.00 2.70 86.5 0 0 in Sri Lanka 4 108.1 292 10 3/38 4/78 29.20 2.69 64.9 0 0 8 268.2 613 30 5/43 8/73 20.43 2.28 53.6 2 0 in U.A.E. 2 36 74 10 4/41 7/59 7.40 2.05 21.6 0 0 0 - - - - - - - - - - in West Indies 10 398.5 1035 50 6/47 10/78 20.70 2.59 47.8 6 1 9 341.3 941 35 6/61 11/110 26.88 2.75 58.5 2 1 in Zimbabwe 1 54 90 6 3/44 6/90 15.00 1.66 54.0 0 0 4 186.1 450 17 5/43 8/83 26.47 2.41 65.7 1 0 in Africa 9 359.2 775 35 6/86 8/49 22.14 2.15 61.6 2 0 6 287.1 723 24 5/43 8/83 30.12 2.51 71.7 1 0 in Americas 10 398.5 1035 50 6/47 10/78 20.70 2.59 47.8 6 1 9 341.3 941 35 6/61 11/110 26.88 2.75 58.5 2 1 in Asia 19 658.3 1658 72 5/66 7/59 23.02 2.51 54.8 1 0 59 1887.2 4867 216 6/48 10/106 22.53 2.57 52.4 11 1 in Europe 14 578.1 1683 87 8/38 9/82 19.34 2.91 39.8 8 0 14 564.3 1523 53 6/67 9/103 28.73 2.69 63.9 2 0 in Oceania 72 2879.5 7035 319 8/24 10/27 22.05 2.44 54.1 12 2 16 690.4 1725 86 7/119 11/160 20.05 2.49 48.1 9 3 [/code:1:83bda0afd4]

[kabira]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? If you are selector selecting world XI...you have easy decision with Akram.. He is only left arm bowler you have..He bring in variation...has great wicket taking ability...can be effective with old ball...He is complete package...and more importantly right hander dont like left arm swing bowlers..so he is automatic selection in my team.. McGrath has to fight for his spot with other Right arm bowlers Malcolm, Lillee, Hadlee, Garner, Holding etc etc..He is not automatic selection.

[gs]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? Bumper you are a genius! :wtg: How the hell did you get hold of these stats?? :chin:

[Bumper]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ?

Bumper you are a genius! :wtg: How the hell did you get hold of these stats?? :chin:

If u know the answer to that qn u would reverse your judgement quickly. I prefer to remain a genius :hic:

[Bumper]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? Here is their ODI stats: Not sure how Munda claims Akram would be picked ahead of McG on horses for courses theory Top line McGrath, Bottom: Akram [code:04ff84e4bf] in Australia 96 861.5 3257 161 5/27 5/40 20.22 3.77 32.1 7 3 64 571.2 2172 87 5/21 4/25 24.96 3.80 39.4 3 1 in Bangladesh 0 - - - - - - - - - - 8 55.5 220 12 3/55 2/29 18.33 3.94 27.9 0 0 in Canada 0 - - - - - - - - - - 7 59.5 236 9 4/35 2/11 26.22 3.94 39.8 1 0 in England 30 271.3 1010 41 5/14 3/25 24.63 3.72 39.7 0 1 23 216.4 877 28 4/40 3/23 31.32 4.04 46.4 1 0 in India 21 189.4 860 30 3/22 3/52 28.66 4.53 37.9 0 0 18 158.5 656 22 3/26 3/34 29.81 4.13 43.3 0 0 in Kenya 5 40.3 140 9 3/8 3/15 15.55 3.45 27.0 0 0 7 56.4 297 13 3/30 3/40 22.84 5.24 26.1 0 0 in Malaysia 4 26 71 1 1/30 - 71.00 2.73 156.0 0 0 0 - - - - - - - - - - in Morocco 0 - - - - - - - - - - 4 39.5 166 7 3/31 2/29 23.71 4.16 34.1 0 0 in Netherlands 2 7.1 12 1 1/12 - 12.00 1.67 43.0 0 0 0 - - - - - - - - - - in New Zealand 15 123.2 520 21 4/16 3/33 24.76 4.21 35.2 1 0 20 167 572 37 5/19 4/23 15.45 3.42 27.0 2 1 in Pakistan 8 72.2 297 15 5/52 3/35 19.80 4.10 28.9 0 1 67 514.1 2241 72 5/15 4/33 31.12 4.35 42.8 1 1 in South Africa 27 228.4 817 37 7/15 3/29 22.08 3.57 37.0 0 1 24 213.4 834 43 5/16 5/28 19.39 3.90 29.8 1 2 in Sri Lanka 12 100.5 440 21 5/37 3/33 20.95 4.36 28.8 0 1 14 110.3 356 22 4/19 4/28 16.18 3.22 30.1 2 0 in U.A.E. 2 18 79 2 1/35 1/44 39.50 4.38 54.0 0 0 77 669.2 2380 122 5/38 4/24 19.50 3.55 32.9 4 1 in West Indies 21 163.1 707 35 4/31 3/14 20.20 4.33 27.9 1 0 12 106.3 454 14 4/18 3/34 32.42 4.26 45.6 1 0 in Zimbabwe 6 51.4 150 6 2/18 2/24 25.00 2.90 51.6 0 0 11 90.5 351 14 4/22 2/24 25.07 3.86 38.9 1 0 in Africa 38 320.5 1107 52 7/15 3/8 21.28 3.45 37.0 0 1 46 401 1648 77 5/16 5/28 21.40 4.10 31.2 2 2 in Americas 21 163.1 707 35 4/31 3/14 20.20 4.33 27.9 1 0 19 166.2 690 23 4/18 4/35 30.00 4.14 43.3 2 0 in Asia 47 406.5 1747 69 5/37 5/52 25.31 4.29 35.3 0 2 184 1508.4 5853 250 5/15 5/38 23.41 3.87 36.2 7 2 in Europe 32 278.4 1022 42 5/14 3/25 24.33 3.66 39.8 0 1 23 216.4 877 28 4/40 3/23 31.32 4.04 46.4 1 0 in Oceania 111 985.1 3777 182 5/27 5/40 20.75 3.83 32.4 8 3 84 738.2 2744 124 5/19 5/21 22.12 3.71 35.7 5 2 [/code:1:04ff84e4bf]

[MundaPakistani]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? Bumper, I know Mcgrath has better stats but if the stats are that powerful then S Pollock and J Kallis would be thegreatest cricketers of this generation.

[Bumper]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ?

Bumper, I know Mcgrath has better stats but if the stats are that powerful then S Pollock and J Kallis would be by far the 2 greatest cricketers of this generation.

And what makes u think they arent ? They are amongst the top 10 all time great allrounders

[Predator_05]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? Akram was a nothing more than a tailender bully. I rate Waqar and at his peak, Shoaib - as better bowlers who could scare the daylights out of the best batsmen. Yeah, he could bowl 6 different balls in an over but so could Manoj Prabhakar and no one refers to him as the greatest ODI bowler ever ? As for McGrath; there is no doubt that he is one fo the best ODI bowlers ever, but the greatest ODI bowler ever ? Not a chance. For starters, he hasn't even been the best bowler in the Aussie team. During the '90's, he was always outperformed by Damien Fleming, and then in the post-millenium era Brett Lee has been the main man in Australia's bowling attack. In recent years, Bracken is just as handy as McGrath - with better stats to boot. McGrath held up an end and fed off the others...he did that to telling effect, but if i wanted a bowler to win me an ODI through sheer force of will, i'd definitely look away from McGrath.

[King]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? Pred, who is your all time best bowler in both formats?

[Predator_05]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? Tests; Malcolm Marshall ODI's; Alan Donald (although ideally i'd go for Shane Warne, but he is a spinner)

[King]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? Marshall is a good choice. Donald was good but not great. In the last couple of years he played he lost fair bit of pace and was not a success at home in WC'2003. I do think overall McGrath is the best bowler of all times. I've watched a lot of bowlers live and in nets. Akram was absolutely breath taking. Fantasic run up, excellent whippy action and could move the ball both ways at high speed. As for skills I choose Akram on par with Richard Hadlee. Both were extremely thoughtful in their approach.

[Predator_05]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? Yeah, in Test cricket - you have a point; McGrath was the boss in Tests. In ODI's ? Sorry, i don't favour hold up an end, restrictive types like McGrath, even though he has the numbers. Donald took almost 300 wickets in around 160 matches; and even when accounting for that poor final year, he still finished with an average of 21. He flattened stumps, he roared at batsmen, he won matches singlehandedly. Even when he lost a bit of pace, he was still taking wickets aplenty as he learnt how to swing the ball. Who would you count on to win you a match, Donald or McGrath ? PS; funny how you mention Akram's action and run-up but neglect Donald - who had the BEST ACTION EVER SEEN in the history of the game ?

[The Outsider]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? In ODIs, both Donald and Akram would be better than McGrath overall. However, McGrath has the ability to really raise his game in crunch matches and pick up key wickets in his opening spell. In tests, McGrath basically is ahead of everyone head and shoulders except Marshall.

[Bumper]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? Predz show me a bowler who was effective thru out his career like McG in ODIs & Tests ? Akram had his meagre run in Tests in the twilight of his career Waqar in both forms was avg when he was past his peak. Marshall is the greatest test (fast) bowler, but didnt have much of a history in ODIs Donald too lost his way once his pace was gone. I have seen Imran, Kapil, Botham all struggle as bowlers in their last few years I cant think beyond McGrath as a fast bowler, who on his day of retirement is still a match winner. In your own post (in this thread) u list Bracken, Lee, Fleming etc. who were better than McG in spurts. But none of them have lasted the distance tho. At the end of their resp careers, McGrath towers over almost all fast bowlers (barring Marshall in tests) i have seen.

[King]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? I would go for McGrath if the game is on its head and is a must win match. I've seen McGrath take those crucial wickets just when the captain needs it. He clearly is a captain's delight. I'm sure you remember how McGrath ripped apart India and West Indies in 1999 world cup. The ball Lara got out to is itched in my mind from the 1999 world cup. Then the 2003 world cup, yet again McGrath does it for Australia taking Tendulkar and the rest. ICC champions trophy was something that Australia didn't have it in their cupboard. Now McGrath played against the two best contemporary batters in Tendulkar and Lara. Who got both of them out??? No guesses here again, it was McGrath. Be it ODIs or test matches McGrath has time and again proved he takes the most prized wicket when you need. This fella performed at his best at big stage and against big players. As for Donald, he was excellent but can't place him in the same class of McGrath, Marshall, Akram or Richard Hadlee. As for the action, Donald had a wonderful action all right but he had a good run up too. He ran in about 15-18 steps and the fury was all there to see. Wasim Akram delivered at similar high speed from about 10-12 steps of run up. For a batter it is way disturbing to see someone just casually run in and deliver at high speeds. I would be keen to know if you have watched Akram live?

[Predator_05]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? I thought we were only discussing ODI's. Sure, take both forms of the game into account (where i'd give Test cricket precedence 'cos it's the real thing) then yeah, McGrath comes out tops

In your own post (in this thread) u list Bracken' date=' Lee, Fleming etc. who were better than McG in spurts. But none of them have lasted the distance tho. At the end of their resp careers, McGrath towers over almost all fast bowlers (barring Marshall in tests) i have seen.[/quote'] There are reasons for that which have nothing to do with McGrath. Bracken took a while to establish himself when Gillespie was around, Fleming was killed off because the selectors and Steve Waugh wanted Brett Lee instead, who they touted as "a once in a generation bowler" at the beginning of his career. The fact that they all outperformed McGrath when they played alongside him is testament to the fact that they were the more effective bowlers in the Australian bowling attack. That is all i need to know. McGrath's longevity is also due to the fact that he was a one-dimensional type who never strived for pace; hence he had fewer injuries. Longevity itself is no indication of outstanding quality, as it's obvious that a slower bowler will be able to last for more years than a quicker bowler. BTW, saying that Donald lost his way once his pace was gone is a very ill-informed comment to make. In 2002, he took 45 wickets @ 21.28 in 25 matches. Lost his way indeed ! He didn't need raw pace to pick up wickets, as he mastered the art of swing by that stage. Sure, he went out the way he didn't intend to by screwing up at the WC; but by then he was finished anyway, as you may recall him bowling off a shortened run up throughout that tournament. So, if your team is defending 180 on a dead pitch in some ODI; and you got McGrath and Donald in your ranks, who would you throw the ball to ?

[Predator_05]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ?

I would go for McGrath if the game is on its head and is a must win match. I've seen McGrath take those crucial wickets just when the captain needs it. He clearly is a captain's delight. I'm sure you remember how McGrath ripped apart India and West Indies in 1999 world cup. As for the action, Donald had a wonderful action all right but he had a good run up too. He ran in about 15-18 steps and the fury was all there to see. Wasim Akram delivered at similar high speed from about 10-12 steps of run up. For a batter it is way disturbing to see someone just casually run in and deliver at high speeds. I would be keen to know if you have watched Akram live?

I am sure you DON'T remember which bowler CAME OUT ON TOP in the SEMI-FINAL of that SAME tournament. Donald 4/32 and McGrath 1/51. Sure, you can cherry pick your favourite McG kodak moments, but i could do the same with Donald. Remember McGrath being hacked to pieces by Moin Khan in the group stage of that same WC ? ...and yes, of course i saw Akram live many times (otherwise, why would i comment on him ?). Good bowler, deceptive action (it was his wrist movement) - he was never overwhelmingly quick. I'd have him bowling for me at the death when you need to knock over the tail, but over the course of a full spell i'd pick Donald every single time.

As for Donald, he was excellent but can't place him in the same class of McGrath, Marshall, Akram or Richard Hadlee.

Waaaaaat ? You have got to be sh*tting me !!!!!!!! Donald with 330 wickets @ 22 in Tests and 280 @ 21 in ODI's isn't in the same class ? mmm...okay !!!

[King]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? You may have a point there Predator as for ODIs are concerned. I would rather look at the full picture and if I had to name one best fast bowler ever, without doubt I'll have McGrath's name in an instance without a second thought. BTW McGrath has not bowling in 130s all the time. When he first burst into international cricket, he was well over 140 k bowler. In the last five years or so he has slowed down but that doesn't mean he is not effective. In fact he has become more effective after he has slowed down. Similar trait with Lillee and Hadlee. Both Lillee and Hadlee had injury problems and had to trim down on their pace to last longer. It is the trend with most fast bowlers and only few excel when they lose fair bit of pace.

[Predator_05]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ?

You may have a point there Predator as for ODIs are concerned. I would rather look at the full picture and if I had to name one best fast bowler ever' date=' without doubt I'll have a McGrath's name in an instance without a second thought. BTW McGrath has not bowling in 130s all the time. When he first burst into international cricket, he was well over 140 k bowler. In the last five years or so he has slowed down but that doesn't mean he is not effective. In fact he has become more effective after he has slowed down. Similar trait with Lillee and Hadlee. Both Lillee and Hadlee had injury problems and had to trim down on their pace to last longer. It is the trend with most fast bowlers and only few excel when they lose fair bit of pace.[/quote'] Yep - looking at it overall; i conceded that point already;

I thought we were only discussing ODI's. Sure, take both forms of the game into account (where i'd give Test cricket precedence 'cos it's the real thing) then yeah, McGrath comes out tops

PS; your point on bowlers' dropping their pace not hindering their wicket-taking prowess applies to Donald as well The difference was that for most of his career, AD was express and McGrath was military medium AT BEST. Hence the diff in longevity