How does McGrath deliver all the time ?

[King]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? Donald has fantastic stats, that?s for sure. Somehow he has always been under rated by me. I suppose that has to do with me mesmerized by some of the spells I watched of Wasim Akram live over here. I have seen Donald bowl few times too but somehow his bowling was not as exciting as Wasim Akram's. Akram's taken so many 5 wicket hauls here, he is considered a legend in this part of the world. Every other cricket follower remembers his name with ease. As for Donald, he didn't play much in this part of the world. Even in Australia Donald I can say without a look at his stats he has not been a great success. It is all but natural we look up to bowlers that we have watched perform consistently in our part of the world. South Africa has lost so many against their arch rivals Aussies and I can't quite recall Donald turning up with great spells against the Aussies. Akram I think has had better of Australia quite a few times. I do believe Akram was very effective bowling at home or in sub continent conditions too. I'm not sure how Donald fared in sub continent but it is a good point for debate.

[Predator_05]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ?

Donald has fantastic stats, that?s for sure. Somehow he has always been under rated by me. I suppose that has to do with me mesmerized by some of the spells I watched of Wasim Akram live over here. I have seen Donald bowl few times too but somehow his bowling was not as exciting as Wasim Akram's. Akram's taken so many 5 wicket hauls here, he is considered a legend in this part of the world. Every other cricket follower remembers his name with ease. As for Donald, he didn't play much in this part of the world. Even in Australia Donald I can say without a look at his stats he has not been a great success. It is all but natural we look up to bowlers that we have watched perform consistently in our part of the world. South Africa has lost so many against their arch rivals Aussies and I can't quite recall Donald turning up with great spells against the Aussies. Akram I think has had better of Australia quite a few times. I do believe Akram was very effective bowling at home or in sub continent conditions too. I'm not sure how Donald fared in sub continent but it is a good point for debate.

Donald in AUS has 23 to his name @ 23.34 - good or bad, you decide - i'd personally donate my left testicle for an Indian fast bowler who can produce such statistics against the best. He has plenty of 4 wicket hauls vs AUS as well Although admittedly, i am swayed by the countless # of times i have witnessed Donald killing the Indian batting lineup. He was very destructive in the '96 Titan Cup (how the f*ck did IND win that, hahaha).

[King]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? I think you are referring to ODIs and am still jogging my memory back to the test matches I've watched. My bad, I can't quite remember too many ODIs from the past. Most ODIs I remember is of course the VB series finals or the world cup ones. There are so many ODIs being played these days, I hardly remember any unless of course there were some really top class performances. I suppose it is to do with following test cricket dearly but not the ODIs. It'll be good to name ICFans top 10 bowlers and batters of all time based on a several different variables.

[The Outsider]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? To facilitate the debate, :hic: Donald in Aus in tests: [code:6e62bae501] (6 ball overs) Mat O R W BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10 unfiltered 72 2586.3 7344 330 8/71 12/139 22.25 2.83 47.0 20 3 filtered 7 279 825 29 6/59 9/133 28.44 2.95 57.7 1 0 [/code:1:6e62bae501] In ODIs: [code:1:6e62bae501] (6 ball overs) Mat O R W BB1 BB2 Ave Econ SR 4w 5w unfiltered 164 1426.5 5926 272 6/23 5/29 21.78 4.15 31.4 11 2 filtered 15 130.2 537 23 4/29 4/40 23.34 4.12 34.0 2 0 [/code:1:6e62bae501]

[King]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? Thanks Shwetabh :hmph: 28 isn't too bad but is this stats only for test matches played in Australia? What's his overall performance against Australia? Sometime stats don't reveal everything. Take for instance the 2007 world cup. Ganguly scored @ an average of 54 and Rahul Dravid at an average of 40. Now we all know Ganguly had a strike rate of 60 in the world cup and Rahul Dravid 72. Now both the batters average is better than their career average. That said did they play better in the world cup than they have in their career. A big "NO".

[Predator_05]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ?

To facilitate the debate, :hic: Donald in Aus in tests: [code:1:07f18aaeb7] (6 ball overs) Mat O R W BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10 unfiltered 72 2586.3 7344 330 8/71 12/139 22.25 2.83 47.0 20 3 filtered 7 279 825 29 6/59 9/133 28.44 2.95 57.7 1 0 [/code:1:07f18aaeb7] In ODIs: [code:1:07f18aaeb7] (6 ball overs) Mat O R W BB1 BB2 Ave Econ SR 4w 5w unfiltered 164 1426.5 5926 272 6/23 5/29 21.78 4.15 31.4 11 2 filtered 15 130.2 537 23 4/29 4/40 23.34 4.12 34.0 2 0 [/code:1:07f18aaeb7]

McGrath's figures are the opposite; good in Tests against SA away (29 wickets @ 23.62) but crappy in ODIs (18 @ 29.50). Make of that what u will. Anyway, i think i'll call it a day now - as we all seem to be quite clear on our positions. You all want to have McGrath's children, and i am infatuated with Allan Donald. Nuff said

[MundaPakistani]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ?

Bumper, I know Mcgrath has better stats but if the stats are that powerful then S Pollock and J Kallis would be by far the 2 greatest cricketers of this generation.

And what makes u think they arent ? They are amongst the top 10 all time great allrounders

So do you agree that Pollock for example is a better cricketer than Lara, Wasim, Mcgrath, Tendulkar, Warne and Murali? If yes then I would think that you are giving too much importance to the stats.

Akram was a nothing more than a tailender bully. I rate Waqar and at his peak, Shoaib - as better bowlers who could scare the daylights out of the best batsmen. Yeah, he could bowl 6 different balls in an over but so could Manoj Prabhakar and no one refers to him as the greatest ODI bowler ever ?

Some slightly strange comments there Predz. When Ravi Shastari named his cricketer of the 90s decade he didn?t mention M Prabhakar, he named Wasim Akram. Then S Waugh said that if in another life he could come back as a cricketer he would want to come back as Wasim Akram not M Prabhakar. Then off course there are numerous other batsmen of the 90s who say that Wasim was the greatest bowler they had ever batted against. Having said all of that I do agree that for the first 4 years of his career Waqar was better than Wasim but for the rest of their respective career Wasim was by far the better bowler.

[The Outsider]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis isn't even a comparison and I am being serious here. Waqar had a superb 3-4 years, thats about it. Akram was a game breaker. He could conjure the extraordinary to change a game even till his last match when he was way past his prime. And for the stats minded, just compare how the two fared against the best batting lineups of their times ie. India and Australia and you'll see the picture.

[Bumper]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ?

So do you agree that Pollock for example is a better cricketer than Lara, Wasim, Mcgrath, Tendulkar, Warne and Murali? If yes then I would think that you are giving too much importance to the stats.

Apples & Oranges. I said Pollock & Kallis would make an all time top 10 all rounders list easily. U cannot compare allrounders with pure batsmen (even tho Tendu can bowl a bit) or bowlers. More often than not allrounders would end up being more valuable cricketers. Who would u pick in your side ? A batsman who scores 50 runs on the average or an allrounder who scores 34 & picks 3 wickets ? An example: Many believe Gary Sobers, the greatest allrounder of all is a greater cricketer than Don Bradman the greatest batsman of all.

[MundaPakistani]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ?

So do you agree that Pollock for example is a better cricketer than Lara, Wasim, Mcgrath, Tendulkar, Warne and Murali? If yes then I would think that you are giving too much importance to the stats.

Apples & Oranges. I said Pollock & Kallis would make an all time top 10 all rounders list easily. U cannot compare allrounders with pure batsmen (even tho Tendu can bowl a bit) or bowlers. More often than not allrounders would end up being more valuable cricketers. Who would u pick in your side ? A batsman who scores 50 runs on the average or an allrounder who scores 34 & picks 3 wickets ? An example: Many believe Gary Sobers, the greatest allrounder of all is a greater cricketer than Don Bradman the greatest batsman of all.

well Pollock's bowling stats are quite similar to those of Mcgrath but as a batsman he is far superior than Mcgrath, so going purely by stats it's quite clear that Pollock is a better cricketer. Same thing with Kallis, his batting stats are similar to Dravid's plus he has over 200 wickets at an average of 31. So going by stats Dravid as a cricketer isn't even in the same league as Kallis and if Kallis is that much better than Dravid then he must also be better than Lara, Sachin and Ponting.

[Guest BossBhai]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? -- Removed on request of the user --

[Bumper]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ?

So do you agree that Pollock for example is a better cricketer than Lara, Wasim, Mcgrath, Tendulkar, Warne and Murali? If yes then I would think that you are giving too much importance to the stats.

Apples & Oranges. I said Pollock & Kallis would make an all time top 10 all rounders list easily. U cannot compare allrounders with pure batsmen (even tho Tendu can bowl a bit) or bowlers. More often than not allrounders would end up being more valuable cricketers. Who would u pick in your side ? A batsman who scores 50 runs on the average or an allrounder who scores 34 & picks 3 wickets ? An example: Many believe Gary Sobers, the greatest allrounder of all is a greater cricketer than Don Bradman the greatest batsman of all.

well Pollock's bowling stats are quite similar to those of Mcgrath but as a batsman he is far superior than Mcgrath, so going purely by stats it's quite clear that Pollock is a better cricketer. Same thing with Kallis, his batting stats are similar to Dravid's plus he has over 200 wickets at an average of 31. So going by stats Dravid as a cricketer isn't even in the same league as Kallis and if Kallis is that much better than Dravid then he must also be better than Lara, Sachin and Ponting.

Thats why i said apples & oranges. Specialists cannot be compared with allrounders. Compare batsman with another batsman, bowler with another bowler, allrounder with another allrounder. Can u compare a bowler with a batsman ? If not why are you comparing allrounders with batsmen ? If Kallis averages same as Dravid & yet bowls 10 tidy overs for 2 wickets, why would he not be a better cricketer ? Forget about who is a better batsman or the aura of the player involved. Kallis may be a lesser batsman than Dravid, but is a better cricketer overall. Its unfair to compare allrounders with specialists

[DesiChap]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? MP, Yes Pollock is a better all round player..McGrath is simply a better bowler...Similarly Kallis is a better all round player than Dravid...Dravid is a better bat !

[Predator_05]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? *GASP* Stop the press !!! The greatest ODI bowler ever hasn't delivered yet !

[King]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? There you go Pred, McGrath the Man of the Tourney. Not a bad returns for a not so good ODI bowler eh? Swan song tourney, the biggest stage and he walks away with the Man of the Tourney award.

[Predator_05]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? Crap performance in the final though.

[The Outsider]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? $hit performance? Went at 4.5 RPO when the opposition was chasing 7.5. Wish we had more $hit performers like him.

[Bumper]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ?

*GASP* Stop the press !!! The greatest ODI bowler ever hasn't delivered yet !

This was one of his worst big game performances. But look at his figures on his bad day: GD McGrath 7-0-31-1 at an E/R of 4.42 An E/R of 4.42 on a flat deck with the opponents chasing a 8 run per over total. Most bowlers would be proud of McGrath's worst figures That says it all!

[Predator_05]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? He was owned by Sangakkara and then came back when the heat was off. Not exactly a performance worthy of the greatest ODI bowler ever, I fink.

[King]

Re: How does McGrath deliver all the time ? Sangakkara owned McGrath It was only one over where McGrath conceded plenty of runs Pred. BTW McGrath ended up with 26 wickets, the highest number of wickets in any world cup. That is a world record too. What better way to end a career? Retired when was at the top of his game.