Do you hate Pakistan?

[seedhi]

USA cannot indiscriminately bomb Afghanistan, but India will be able to do so!!

Ofcourse, we are not here to "help" the pakistani civilians like the USA has committed itself to do.

I hope I don't get to see the day where we test the impregnability of our border against an army of 1.5 million people armed with some of the best weapons and no compunctions about killing civilians.

The impregnability is tested daily against an equally large army with ariforce and nukes as well.

Who is talking about an all out invasion? It's going to be a guerrilla war and I have yet to see anything in history to suggest that a guerrilla war can be won against 1.5 million people with an endless supply of some of the best arms.

There is no guerilla warfare possible in the plains of Punjab, deserts of Rajasthan or the marshes of Kutch. The only problematic region is the Kashmir LoC which can be fixed by moving upwards towards a better terrain.

[Ram]

Sri' date=' Of late I have gone through lot of hardships in professional life here just because of those ****ing [b']padosis and was just venting out my frustration.

A’right I understand. I know about you, so we’ll just excuse you for that outburst. :icflove:

[The Outsider]

Ofcourse, we are not here to "help" the pakistani civilians like the USA has committed itself to do.

And I supposed the international community will allow us to bomb Pakistani civilians into extermination. Really, what world do you live in?

The impregnability is tested daily against an equally large army with ariforce and nukes as well.

I didn't know we are at war.

There is no guerilla warfare possible in the plains of Punjab, deserts of Rajasthan or the marshes of Kutch. The only problematic region is the Kashmir LoC which can be fixed by moving upwards towards a better terrain.

No guerrilla warfare possible in the marshes of Kutch or deserts of Rajasthan? Please do some reading on guerrilla warfare. Moreover the entire PoK will one huge war zone for India, where our soldiers will be at risk to being shot from basically every house. Anyhow, if you somehow think you can win a guerrilla war against 1.5 million people with some of the best available equipment without bleeding your country into oblivion, I really have nothing more to say on this.

[seedhi]

It would have been justifiable and correct at the time of independence' date=' not now when it is abundantly clear that no one from PoK will want to live under Indian rule. In fact, India should secretly hope that it is never given the opportunity to take over PoK because it will not benefit India in the slightest and cause immense harm.[/quote']This is nonsense. First of all I dont think it is really abundantly clear that if the pakistani army withdraws then why the people of PoK would mind joining India. After all pakistan would be abandoning them. If India refuses to take PoK it would probably be unheard of in history that a country refused an area of land which it claimed for last 60 years. India should and would take PoK back if peacefully possible.

[ViruRulez]

I know, it was a thought experiment. If both pakistan agree, I would also agree to present international borders - in J&K, Aksai Chin and Arunachal. But sadly, that is also unlikely. pakistan has repeatedly said it will use nukes unilaterally against India. So we cannot assume rationality from them. There seems to be no other way to do this. That is why the world i.e. the USA and NATO will remove the nukes from pakistan before the Taliban takeover. The USA will only confiscate the nukes when there is a danger of them falling to the Taliban.

I agree with all the above points except that US will take the nukes. I wont trust US on that. Mind my words, US also plays double game and it has shown that repeatedly. If you really think that US is concerned about the whole world and its well being then then you might again look at history once. US has almost always acted in their own interests rather than the world. Most of the sh*t in the whole world is directly or indirectly related to US and Russia and it cannot be a mere coincidence. I am not sure if they would actually take away the nukes and I wont US that much. The best I can hope is that US takes some control over it so that it is not used by Pakis.

Would not matter, without the nukes they would be powerless to harm India

In this I think you are underestimating the rogue Talibans a bit. US and NATO could hardly affect them much in these 7-8 years of war with their huge army and sophisticated weapons. So, not sure how much will we be effective in doing so. And more importantly, the war against Talibans has cost US their giant economy. So, being a developing country such a war would affect us even more economically and with human losses significantly. And the growth and development we have achieved in all these years might again be severely affected. Frankly speaking war is the last thing I would personally opt at this crucial stage of our development.

A Taliban ruled pakistan also has other benefits like the Kashmir issue will be settled automatically.

This is just speculation. What is the guarantee that Talibans would not occupy PoK too. And that would be terrible for us as the Talibans and the terrorists in PoK might join hands and create more problems for us. And the chances of them occupying PoK too is quite high if they occupy whole of Pakistan. In fact, the news channels showed the other day that Kashmir and Rajasthan are nearest to the Taliban places and they are nearer than even the southern part of Pakistan.

[The Outsider]

This is nonsense. First of all I dont think it is really abundantly clear that if the pakistani army withdraws then why the people of PoK would mind joining India. After all pakistan would be abandoning them. If India refuses to take PoK it would probably be unheard of in history that a country refused an area of land which it claimed for last 60 years. India should and would take PoK back if peacefully possible.

I don't know why you are going on and on about this impossible scenario that the Pakistan army will vacate PoK. If it does and India takes it over that would be the expected thing but morally wrong and politically and economically harmful. As I said if people of PoK want to integrate with India, then sure by all means India should go ahead.

[seedhi]

And I supposed the international community will allow us to bomb Pakistani civilians into extermination. Really' date=' what world do you live in?[/quote']It will be an open declaration of war. And in war bombings of legitimate targets are allowed.

I didn't know we are at war.

Pakistan does its best to push infiltrators into India everyday.

No guerrilla warfare possible in the marshes of Kutch or deserts of Rajasthan? Please do some reading on guerrilla warfare.

Please enlighten me how would the Taliban escape detection several kilometers before they reach the border? The whole international border with pakistan is secure.

Moreover the entire PoK will one huge war zone for India, where our soldiers will be at risk to being shot from basically every house.

Why would Indian soldiers go into PoK (you seem to be confusing the two scenarios).

Anyhow, if you somehow think you can win a guerrilla war against 1.5 million people with some of the best available equipment without bleeding your country into oblivion, I really have nothing more to say on this.

Russia have done it. Puny Sri Lanka have done it. And frankly 1.5 million is a complete exaggeration. Its closer to 100,000 Taliban at most. And they wont have the best available weapons. India would have the best available weapons while they would be armed with rudimentary ones.

[ludhianvi]

People of Azaad Kashmir dont want to be part of India If anyone thinks otherwise, then its just hilarious :hysterical::hysterical:

[seedhi]

I don't know why you are going on and on about this impossible scenario that the Pakistan army will vacate PoK. If it does and India takes it over that would be the expected thing but morally wrong and politically and economically harmful. As I said if people of PoK want to integrate with India, then sure by all means India should go ahead.

It is your contention that if India is handed PoK on a platter it should not take it, unless somehow it gets to know that the people of PoK want India (how that is to be inferred is unclear). My contention is that, having demanded PoK back for the last 60 years India is obliged to take it back, and not doing so will risk the legitimacy of its own rule in J&K. I guess we have made each other pretty clear about our opinions about this so I will leave it at that.

[seedhi]

I agree with all the above points except that US will take the nukes. I wont trust US on that. Mind my words' date=' US also plays double game and it has shown that repeatedly. If you really think that US is concerned about the whole world and its well being then then you might again look at history once. US has almost always acted in their own interests rather than the world. Most of the sh*t in the whole world is directly or indirectly related to US and Russia and it cannot be a mere coincidence. I am not sure if they would actually take away the nukes and I wont US that much. The best I can hope is that US takes some control over it so that it is not used by Pakis.[/quote']Neither USA, nor Russia, nor China would allow the Taliban to get nukes. The moment they feel any such thing has a remote possibility of happening they will denuke pakistan. India will probably take the initiative itself for this.

In this I think you are underestimating the rogue Talibans a bit. US and NATO could hardly affect them much in these 7-8 years of war with their huge army and sophisticated weapons. So, not sure how much will we be effective in doing so. And more importantly, the war against Talibans has cost US their giant economy. So, being a developing country such a war would affect us even more economically and with human losses significantly. And the growth and development we have achieved in all these years might again be severely affected. Frankly speaking war is the last thing I would personally opt at this crucial stage of our development.

The conflict with Taliban wont cost India more that it costs us to defend against pakistan today. Secondly, Taliban cannot mount an invasion against India. They are equipped and trained only to fight a guerilla war on their own soil like Afghanistan. Any approach by the Taliban towards the Indian border would be detected and neutralized hundreds of kilometers before they reach India.

This is just speculation. What is the guarantee that Talibans would not occupy PoK too. And that would be terrible for us as the Talibans and the terrorists in PoK might join hands and create more problems for us. And the chances of them occupying PoK too is quite high if they occupy whole of Pakistan. In fact, the news channels showed the other day that Kashmir and Rajasthan are nearest to the Taliban places and they are nearer than even the southern part of Pakistan.

India would probably more the LoC northwards to a better terrain, and I dont see any problem in defending Kashmir against the Taliban as well. In all this you should not forget that pakistan would also be reeling in a civil war. With zero agricultural production and investment the country would basically starve. It will be childs play to defend India against torn country like it.

[Lurker]

It is threads like these that spread Internet hatred. What are the odds a visitor will read through the entire thread and see what the majority think? The bulk of them will go straight to the last page, and see Indian poster(s) suggesting "Nuke Pakistan" in a thread titled "Do you hate Pakistan". xxx

[The Outsider]

It will be an open declaration of war. And in war bombings of legitimate targets are allowed.

Civilian targets are not legitimate and the international community will never allow it.

Pakistan does its best to push infiltrators into India everyday.

But not openly and even so quite a few get through Rajasthan.

Please enlighten me how would the Taliban escape detection several kilometers before they reach the border? The whole international border with pakistan is secure.

Then how do infiltrators get in through Rajasthan?

Why would Indian soldiers go into PoK (you seem to be confusing the two scenarios). Russia have done it. Puny Sri Lanka have done it. And frankly 1.5 million is a complete exaggeration. Its closer to 100,000 Taliban at most. And they wont have the best available weapons. India would have the best available weapons while they would be armed with rudimentary ones.

You seem confused. How are you going to extend the control in Kashmir towards PoK without having the army there, which will be slaughtered from every single house in a war. Pakistan army strength is 1.2 million with the reserves. Add to that the Taliban militia, para military forces, and people who will join to fight if India attacks Pakistan and 1.5 million is probably an exaggeration on the lower side. You are not assuming that in case of a Taliban takeover of Pakistan, their army will side with the Indians are you? And yes, they will also have the best available weaponry because if I am not mistaken your arguments have been based on the incorrect assumption that it will only be the Taliban India will deal with.

[The Outsider]

The conflict with Taliban wont cost India more that it costs us to defend against pakistan today. Secondly, Taliban cannot mount an invasion against India. They are equipped and trained only to fight a guerilla war on their own soil like Afghanistan. Any approach by the Taliban towards the Indian border would be detected and neutralized hundreds of kilometers before they reach India.

On one hand you are saying Taliban will take over Pakistan and then suggesting India will only be up against a bunch of militia. Does this cross even the first hurdle of logic. Taliban taking over Pakistan implies by axiom taking over all it's military and resources.

[ViruRulez]

Neither USA, nor Russia, nor China would allow the Taliban to get nukes. The moment they feel any such thing has a remote possibility of happening they will denuke pakistan. India will probably take the initiative itself for this. The conflict with Taliban wont cost India more that it costs us to defend against pakistan today. Secondly, Taliban cannot mount an invasion against India. They are equipped and trained only to fight a guerilla war on their own soil like Afghanistan. Any approach by the Taliban towards the Indian border would be detected and neutralized hundreds of kilometers before they reach India. India would probably more the LoC northwards to a better terrain, and I dont see any problem in defending Kashmir against the Taliban as well. In all this you should not forget that pakistan would also be reeling in a civil war. With zero agricultural production and investment the country would basically starve. It will be childs play to defend India against torn country like it.

Fair enough though the bombing out of whole Pakistani people would not be morally or humanly acceptable as it would amount to genocide. And the international community would never let that happen. Civilians cannot be killed completely and UN and international community would never allow that. Anyways killing civilians would not be a sensible thing and morally not acceptable.

[ViruRulez]

It is threads like these that spread Internet hatred. What are the odds a visitor will read through the entire thread and see what the majority think? The bulk of them will go straight to the last page, and see Indian poster(s) suggesting "Nuke Pakistan" in a thread titled "Do you hate Pakistan". xxx

I agree. :haha: All the peaceful responses are in the first few pages and the last few responses are more violent responses. Anyways I also doubt the intentions of the thread starter. He said that he has got assignment but I did not see him returning to this thread or replying at all after creating it. I dont know what type of assignment it is where he is not needed to check the replies. :dontknow:

[seedhi]

Civilian targets are not legitimate and the international community will never allow it.

Civilian targets used by Taliban would be legitimate. I dont see it as a problem at all.

But not openly and even so quite a few get through Rajasthan.

Very few get through the IB. Not enough to do any damage.

Then how do infiltrators get in through Rajasthan?

Any gurerilla approach has no chance of coming near the border without being detected.

You seem confused. How are you going to extend the control in Kashmir towards PoK without having the army there, which will be slaughtered from every single house in a war.

Have you been to PoK. It is not densely populated. A simple air raid would neutralize any resistance whatsoever.

Pakistan army strength is 1.2 million with the reserves. Add to that the Taliban militia, para military forces, and people who will join to fight if India attacks Pakistan and 1.5 million is probably an exaggeration on the lower side. You are not assuming that in case of a Taliban takeover of Pakistan, their army will side with the Indians are you? And yes, they will also have the best available weaponry because if I am not mistaken your arguments have been based on the incorrect assumption that it will only be the Taliban India will deal with.

Wouldnt the pakistani army be already disabled by the Taliban. It is far more likely that the pakistani Punjabis would be fighting for their lives against the Taliban - i.e. pakistan itself would be mired in a civil war. In which case all we would have to do is watch them kill each other. If the Taliban is victorious it will be after the Punjabis have been thoroughly destroyed. I guess by that time the country would itself starve due to some famine and agriculture declines. I am telling you that a Taliban onsluaght in pakistan with a ethnic civil war is the best possible scenario.

[seedhi]

On one hand you are saying Taliban will take over Pakistan and then suggesting India will only be up against a bunch of militia. Does this cross even the first hurdle of logic. Taliban taking over Pakistan implies by axiom taking over all it's military and resources.

What military resources would be left? It is not necessary that the Taliban absorb the pakistani army. It is far more likely that there will be a civil war - punjabis, sindhis and pashtuns fighting each other. It may be that the punjabis are reduced to militia resistance against the Taliban. In any case the whole scenario will be accompanied by severe internal conflict and we would essentially have to do nothing except watch the drama. Before the Taliban are able to even turn their attention to India, pakistan would probably starve and turn into an asian Somalia - impotent and only of a nuisance value.

[The Outsider]

Wouldnt the pakistani army be already disabled by the Taliban. It is far more likely that the pakistani Punjabis would be fighting for their lives against the Taliban - i.e. pakistan itself would be mired in a civil war. In which case all we would have to do is watch them kill each other. If the Taliban is victorious it will be after the Punjabis have been thoroughly destroyed. I guess by that time the country would itself starve due to some famine and agriculture declines. I am telling you that a Taliban onsluaght in pakistan with a ethnic civil war is the best possible scenario.

I would have replied to the other parts of your post, but after reading this I have realized it's a futile exercise. You think the Taliban with 100,000 people and a bunch of AK47s will be able to dismantle the entire structure of the Pakistani army and take over the country? If, and it's a huge if, a Taliban takeover does happen in Pakistan it certainly won't be because Taliban were able to defeat the army. If Taliban take over Pakistan, they will take over the army and all it's weaponry as well.

[seedhi]

Fair enough though the bombing out of whole Pakistani people would not be morally or humanly acceptable as it would amount to genocide. And the international community would never let that happen. Civilians cannot be killed completely and UN and international community would never allow that. Anyways killing civilians would not be a sensible thing and morally not acceptable.

My view is that any sympathy for pakistanis is misplaced. While I do not advocate going out of our way to kill them, we need not be overly concerned if some die as collateral damage.

[jf1gp_1]

Yes