EnterTheVoid Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 All right Lurker, explain this: How come if anyone points out that the terrorists are home grown, the response is, they cannot be muslim because muslims don't kill each other, even when the terrorists admit to their crimes; it always has to be someone else Why does religion take precedence over nation, now more than ever, especially when the country is tearing itself apart ? Partition happened for the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomainK Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Most Pakistanis dont really(unless of course the criticism comes from an Indian). Pakistanis in general get ticked off lot more if unpleasant questions are raised about Islam than about Pakistan. They must be the only citizens in the world who seem to have more worry about Palestine than whats happening in their own backywards. So true. For small things half way across the world, you will see protests on Pakistani streets. When bombs go off in their own country, they sit at home like the cowards they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ketansingh Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Lurker' date=' Shwetabh, why do Pakistani's interpret criticism of their country as attacks on Islam ?[/quote'] I hope you dont mind if I chip in. From my experience they think that their country is a part of islam or is a protector and up-keeper of islamic values. Hence their stolen bomb is refered to as an 'islamic bomb' and all their wars against India have been referred to as 'Jihad'. They think that criticism of any muslim country, criticism of any action by a muslim and anything in the favour of a non-muslim country (esp Israel, America and India) is against Islam. They cannot conceive anything to be separate from Islam. This is why most of them have started to develop a victim mentallity and feel that they need to defend Islam by saying that 'Islam is really a peaceful religion' or 'some people are mis quoting the koran to fulfil their political ambitions'. Bullshit, the koran does advocate these things and they are only denying it because the world has finally caught on and they are being forced to think............ Is this medievel religion really compatible with the modern world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 All right Lurker, explain this: How come if anyone points out that the terrorists are home grown, the response is, they cannot be muslim because muslims don't kill each other, even when the terrorists admit to their crimes; it always has to be someone else That depends on your definition of "they". If by they you mean faceless people on Internet then yes you are right. This is because they are ignorant, pompuous and are happy to think what they beleive is indeed correct. This is no different on our side of the border incidentally. However if your definition of "they" is Pakistani intelligentsia then they have accepted that these terrorists are home grown. Probably the finest Pakistani newspaper Dawn has pretty much every single columnist, and Editorial board, accepting that these terrorists are either home grown OR foreign jihadis but always Muslims and willing to kill in the name of Islam. The realization has dawned, pun intentional, a bit late but for sure. Why does religion take precedence over nation, now more than ever, especially when the country is tearing itself apart ? The answser lies in the foundation of the nation. Indians celebrate Independence Day as the day we became free of British rule. Partition is considered a dark spot but just that. Nobody gives a damn about partition on 15th August or 26th January celebrations. Two of our biggest politicians these days Manmohan Singh and Advani had family moving across the border during Partition but you would rarely, if ever, hear them talk about it. On the other hand every Pakistani politician from Imran Khan to Parvez Musharraf would keep invoking partition as the time their "walidain hizrat karke aaye the". For Pakistanis Independence is considered a freedom of rule from Indians(Hindus). Wonder how did that happen. A key difference between India and Pakistan is the sheer compassion. And I personally beleive this is probably down to Nehru's vision of Secularism. India's popular song -Saare Jehan se Accha- was written by a Pakistani Muslim(Iqbal). Even Bangladesh's national song - Amar Sonar Bangla- was written by an Indian Hindu(Tagore). Can you imagine Pakistan having its National song penned down by an Indian Hindu? Therein lies the answer. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 So true. For small things half way across the world' date= you will see protests on Pakistani streets. When bombs go off in their own country, they sit at home like the cowards they are. First of all, they are not small things. I'm not getting into that but they are not small things. Secondly, what the hell do you mean by "sit at home". Do you not see the countless innocents who die everyday? The people who, despite everything, continue on with their lives? Do you not see the army fighting off these animals in our own country? Do you not hear about tribals getting up and fighting back? Do you not hear about the Anti-Taliban rallies on the streets? Don't say stupid things like a typical youtuber Indian when you have absolutely no idea what the hell you are talking about. Cowards my foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gs Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 ^^War against Taliban and other islamic extremist groups in Pak - do you think this is Pakistan's own war or is it someone else's (aka uncle Sam) war that Pakistan is fighting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 For sure it is Pakistan's own war. It has become so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gs Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 For sure it is Pakistan's own war. It has become so. So it wasn't Pakistan's war to begin with?!? Consider 9/11 hadnt occured and US hadnt invaded Afghanistan. In all likelyhood Taliban would still be ruling Afghanistan and indirectly fuelling the insurgency in Kashmir as well. In such a scenario, do you think Pakistan should still be fighting this war? Do you think this war against islamic fundementalism/extremism is in Pakistan's best interests regardless of US pressure/involvement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I should have stopped after the first sentence...:p But yes it is indeed in Pakistan's interest to fight these Islamists, regardless of what is going on in Afghanistan. No one in Pakistan wants to be run by these folks so yes I think this war is Pakistan's own war and should be fought regardless of US pressure/ involvement. That is what I think and there are many more like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siddhu Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I should have stopped after the first sentence...:p But yes it is indeed in Pakistan's interest to fight these Islamists, regardless of what is going on in Afghanistan. No one in Pakistan wants to be run by these folks so yes I think this war is Pakistan's own war and should be fought regardless of US pressure/ involvement. That is what I think and there are many more like me. I sincerely hope there are more like you... otherwise your country is going nowhere but down. You and your type might be the last hope of your country... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 First of all, they are not small things. I'm not getting into that but they are not small things. . Why are you so worried about palestininans? They have nothing to do with Pakistan. Why are you not equally worried for example about the tamils in SL? Why don't you type endless words on the tamils and why don't paks take to the streets in protest at that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 ^^ I was merely correcting what the other poster said, not showing any special treatment to a group of people. Personally, any group of oppressed people deserve the same amount of exposure. People in Pakistan go to the streets about Palestine because of the Muslim link and because an outside non-Muslim force has taken over their land. This does alot more to fuel their anger than the Tamil oppresion in SL. That's what I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texy Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Pakistan only cares when it is a muslim vs kaffir fight....completely ignores muslim vs muslim violence, completely ignores muslim on kaffir terrorism/ atrocity...this kind of double standard applies to pretty much the whole pakistani mass mentality...evidence being found in several forums all the across the internet.... most pakistanis believe they are fighting America's war on terror not their own...they believe all the violence are caused by Americans, Indians. It's always "their fault" not "ours" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gs Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 I should have stopped after the first sentence...:p But yes it is indeed in Pakistan's interest to fight these Islamists, regardless of what is going on in Afghanistan. No one in Pakistan wants to be run by these folks so yes I think this war is Pakistan's own war and should be fought regardless of US pressure/ involvement. That is what I think and there are many more like me. Right answer and hope there are many more like you in your country :hatsoff: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triam Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Pioneer please educate Celeste abt whose war this is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomainK Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I should have stopped after the first sentence...:p But yes it is indeed in Pakistan's interest to fight these Islamists, regardless of what is going on in Afghanistan. No one in Pakistan wants to be run by these folks so yes I think this war is Pakistan's own war and should be fought regardless of US pressure/ involvement. That is what I think and there are many more like me. That's so correct.:two_thumbs_up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Pakistan only cares when it is a muslim vs kaffir fight....completely ignores muslim vs muslim violence' date=' completely ignores muslim on kaffir terrorism/ atrocity...this kind of double standard applies to pretty much the whole pakistani mass mentality...evidence being found in several forums all the across the internet.... most pakistanis believe they are fighting America's war on terror not their own...they believe all the violence are caused by Americans, Indians. It's always "their fault" not "ours"[/quote'] Yep. Thats why I wanted Pioneer to type its the islam connection. For example christian paks have gone to 10 downing street today to protest at all the attcks on them by muslims in pakistan. So instead of worryoing about this pak are more intrested in how palestinans are. Also mass killing and exodous of christinas from Iraq at moment. Again muslims round the world dont care. After all they are only kaffirs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ketansingh Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Yep. Thats why I wanted Pioneer to type its the islam connection. For example christian paks have gone to 10 downing street today to protest at all the attcks on them by muslims in pakistan. So instead of worryoing about this pak are more intrested in how palestinans are. Also mass killing and exodous of christinas from Iraq at moment. Again muslims round the world dont care. After all they are only kaffirs Thats the Islamic way of thinking. They think that a muslim life is worth more than a non muslim one. I would like to ask our muslim friends, in light of this, how they expect non muslims to respect a religion that does not value their right to live? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngindia Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Lurker' date=' Shwetabh, why do Pakistani's interpret criticism of their country as attacks on Islam ?[/quote'] The islamic states continue to follow the "state = religion" model. religion and politics are inseperable.the nation state is supposed to defend the "interests" of islam. the christian states abandoned this model around 300 years ago making religion a private affair. i.e personal inspiration may come from judeo-christian values but the state will follow interests on nationalistic grounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngindia Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 ^^ People in Pakistan go to the streets about Palestine because of the Muslim link and because an outside non-Muslim force has taken over their land. This does alot more to fuel their anger than the Tamil oppresion in SL. That's what I think. the notion that you have to support a muslim against non muslim is communal/racist.not acceptable in a civlised society at all. but i know where it comes from. Islamic politics has a worldview dividing politics into muslims and nonmuslims.these are reflected in concepts like dar-ul islam and dar ul harb. and equally i would have to blast sangh parivar supporters who lambast ALL muslims in a bigoted, hypocritical manner . following a similar model with slight variants and having the same underlying ideology of communalism but criticising others only makes one daft. the hindutva gang has no moral superiority over communal muslims.they are as pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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