Lurker Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 No this is not about Pakistan(apologies to you if you were fishing for it), but a line from Irfan Hussain in Dawn that caught my attention. http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/irfan-husain-an-incoming-barrage-from-india Do Indians take themselves and their country very seriously? More so than Pakistan(or citizens of many other countries)? I tend to agree with this statement. We are far more prone to get on defensive from everything ranging from Kashmir to Sehwag being most destructive. If there is an article against India, or things Indian(like cricket), we expect it either to be complimenting towards India or stop reading at the very line where it becomes critical of India(ns). This in turn is (mis)used by everyone ranging from politicians to mediamen who are only eager to write for the masses. An Indian citizen has to walk a tightrope; if he agrees to blind nationalism he is considered a blind nationalist, if he challenges the blind nationalism he is tagged a self-loather. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. My personal take is this - I DO take India more seriously than objectively. The reason for this is more to do with the fact that as an Indian I consider India to be the land dearest to me and the land that beckons solace in case everything(read family, job etc) goes wrong. I can always imagine packing my bag and settling back in the my little village, although Naxals these days are not making it any easier. I hate to say this but I dont quite suffer from what many folks, specially Pakistanis, seem to suffer from and that is their dream is to settle in Saudi or Mecca or anywhere else. Hence it is also important to me that my nation is portrayed in good light and get defensive about it when it is not. Whats your take. Do you take India, and Indians, more seriously and less objectively? If so why do you think that is? xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Good read, Lurker. Looking at myself, I think I take it seriously in a few aspects and don't get worked up about others. For example, the incorrect portrayal of Muslims in India is something I am very vocal about but won't really care too much if someone is exaggerating the lack of hygiene and cleanliness in India. Probably am more touchy about incorrect social notions than incorrect material notions, because to me what defines India is it's social fabric rather than the malls or Taj Mahal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audioman Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Hmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Hmmmmm :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: Look what the cat dragged out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 omg audioman is here. :hysterical: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 legendary audioman is out. Who is better Lara or Sachin?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punjabi_khota Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 In hardcore Islam (which more and more people in pakistan are espousing), religion>nation. 99% of pakis are muslims. We take our nation more seriously, they take their religion FAR more seriously. fin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 7, 2009 Author Share Posted December 7, 2009 In hardcore Islam (which more and more people in pakistan are espousing), religion>nation. 99% of pakis are muslims. We take our nation more seriously, they take their religion FAR more seriously. fin. I think that sums it up rather well. Indians, generally speaking, are more prone to get defensive when it comes to matter of nation as compared to religion. An average Hindu wont care much if you rant against his veggie eating habits but if you suggest India does not produce fast bowlers because of this he may get all worked up. Pakistanis on the other hand typically are more proud of Islam than their own country. This stems from the notion of ummah, or ummat, but ultimately ensures the nation's sorry state almost always falls secondary to the religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Another ridiculously pro pak article from our resident pakistani fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brainfade Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 In hardcore Islam (which more and more people in pakistan are espousing), religion>nation. 99% of pakis are muslims. We take our nation more seriously, they take their religion FAR more seriously. fin. Good point. In your opinion, would that apply to Indian Muslims, too? If not, why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suma25 Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Good point. In your opinion' date=' would that apply to Indian Muslims, too? If not, why not?[/quote'] same goes for indian muslims .But they are not as hardcore as their pakistani counteraparts or kashmiris .Atleast the couple of musilim friends I had during my childhood/ college days and colleagues working in office were pretty cool .Yeah, but in matters of their religion they are still pretty strict. reason for them being not as hardcore ???dunno .... probably result of living in a multicultural country like india where they have to adapt in order to integrate with the mainstream society for fear of being left out ... thats the only reason i can think of ...maybe others here can provide a better reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punjabi_khota Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Good point. In your opinion' date=' would that apply to Indian Muslims, too? If not, why not?[/quote'] It is obvious, there are various flavors of Islam floating around. From sufism->wahabbism. Depends on which end of the spectrum you are at. Pakistan for example is getting increasingly hardcore. Saudi money is a big contributer to this change. It starts with the Quran, since there isn't any one interpretation, and the saudis are flooding the world with their version of Quran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 same goes for indian muslims .But they are not as hardcore as their pakistani counteraparts or kashmiris .Atleast the couple of musilim friends I had during my childhood/ college days and colleagues working in office were pretty cool .Yeah' date=' but in matters of their religion they are still pretty strict. [b']reason for them being not as hardcore ???dunno .... probably result of living in a multicultural country like india where they have to adapt in order to integrate with the mainstream society for fear of being left out ... thats the only reason i can think of ...maybe others here can provide a better reason. Or probably because bulk of Indian Muslims are no different than Indian Hindus. We both learn from each other and not merely one from the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterTheVoid Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 A question on Indian Muslims; Some Indian Muslims I have met here in Australia wore necklaces with the pendant 'OM'. They also went to Ganesh / ISKCON (International Society for Krishna Consciousness) temple(s) Idol worship is forbidden in Islam, no ? So how do you explain this ? Maybe Indian muslims are more moderate and accepting of other cultures ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brainfade Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 It is obvious, there are various flavors of Islam floating around. From sufism->wahabbism. Depends on which end of the spectrum you are at. Pakistan for example is getting increasingly hardcore. Saudi money is a big contributer to this change. It starts with the Quran, since there isn't any one interpretation, and the saudis are flooding the world with their version of Quran. There is also an economic component, I would imagine. In India, there is relatively more opportunity for youth (Hindu, Muslim, whoever) to be productive - study, get a job and have a chance at a stable life. With Pakistan's economy in shambles, it is easier for youngsters to get swayed the wrong way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punjabi_khota Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 A question on Indian Muslims; Some Indian Muslims I have met here in Australia wore necklaces with the pendant 'OM'. They also went to Ganesh / ISKCON (International Society for Krishna Consciousness) temple(s) Idol worship is forbidden in Islam, no ? So how do you explain this ? Maybe Indian muslims are more moderate and accepting of other cultures ? Lol I don't believe you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterTheVoid Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I didn't believe it either. I genuinely thought he was Hindu until he told me his name I stopped short of asking him why he was visiting hindu temples when he was a muslim. Decided it was best if I didn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gs Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Good point. In your opinion' date=' would that apply to Indian Muslims, too? If not, why not?[/quote'] Another perspective - Indian muslims are a "minority" and only a fraction of the Indian population. There are far more tolerant/progressives religions which form the bulk of the population. So India as a nation values the sentiment of nationhood more than an individual religion. Contrast this with Pakistan. An overwhelming majority of the population belongs to some brand of Islam. Minorities are just a miniscule number and are insignificant. With Wahabism on the rise, its a no brainer to understand what they value more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punjabi_khota Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Another reason simply could be that Pakistan as a nation itself has no history before 1947. There is nothing they can relate to, to give them pride as a nation other than maybe a cricket world cup and a stolen nuclear bomb. So they cling to religion and consider themselves as erstwhile rulers of India (calling themselves descendents of Mughals). :hehe: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suma25 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Or probably because bulk of Indian Muslims are no different than Indian Hindus. We both learn from each other and not merely one from the other. yea thats what i meant or atleast trying to convey thru my post . It is the case with people from every other religion in the country. but since cric addict's question was more specifically related to indian muslims being more moderate so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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