Is there a reason why Sreesanth should be picked again?

[graphic23]

Fontaine, Dhondy - correct me if I'm wrong, but even Michael Holding used the same reason to slow down his pace towards the latter half of his career, isn't it? He said he sacrificed a bit of pace to focus more on line and length/ accuracy.

[Mr. Wicket]

Maybe that's your answer? That Indian bowlers are more intelligent? It was always going to come down to brains v brawn.

Hadlee Botham Lillee Cairns (Jr and Sr) Morrison Pollock (who was bloody quick in his first few years) Gillespie McDermott McGrath Ntini Quite a few of these guys went from seriously fast (or in McGrath/Morrison's cases, quite fast) to knocking a few k's off their bowling as well. In some cases like Botham/Lillee, it was in response to injury - in others like McGrath and Pollock, it was for a lot more accuracy. But dropping pace after some time doesn't seem to be an only Indian trait.

[Lurker]

Quite a few of these guys went from seriously fast (or in McGrath/Morrison's cases, quite fast) to knocking a few k's off their bowling as well. In some cases like Botham/Lillee, it was in response to injury - in others like McGrath and Pollock, it was for a lot more accuracy. But dropping pace after some time doesn't seem to be an only Indian trait.

And maybe those who dont drop pace have the luxury of doing so when they have a much well defined bowling attack around them? Malcolm Marshall was never going to drop speed when Holding and Roberts were operating. He did not have to. But when Holding and Roberts dropped Marshall cut down his speed and improved on his guile. Same with everyone ranging from Waqar to Brett Lee. Why would Lee drop speed when he was selected to go simply for the kill? The moment he became the spearhead his speed dropped( not as alarming as Pathan but still). Same with Akram who went from tearaway to a swinger(not in the wrong sense of the word). Problem with Indian tearaway may be that they are selected for speed(Sreesanth, Ishant, Munaf). But which Indian fan would appreciate a bowler with speed at 145 kmph after India has been routed 3-0 and the bowler himself ending with 2 wickets for 315??? Maybe the day our bowling attack has teeth would be the day we discover a pace bowler. xxx

[Dhondy]

But dropping pace after some time doesn't seem to be an only Indian trait.

Couldn't you have told me that before? I could have saved my breath. Nballa, don't you dare start a thread again, you stooge.

[Mr. Wicket]

Could have, but was busy first being productive in academia. :winky: Will fill you in with more later this weekend. Watch your email then. nballa would do well to engage in a comparative study of speeds clocked by Aaqib Jaaved, Ata ur Rehman, Abdul Razzaq, Umar Gul, Azhar Mahmood, Shahid Nazir and friends in their first couple of games and a few years later. :hehe:

[Sooda]

'some time' in the case of Indian bowlers is like 5 tests! Or at least one season. Thats the problem. No one expects Zak to bowl like he is 25. But Munaf, Irfan, RPS...? The Lees and Bonds need pace as it is effectively their main weapon. McG and Pollock could rely on the unerring accuracy; Wasim and Waqar had the cut and swing, once their pace went with age and injuries. Not sure the out and out pacers have that kind of skill Allan Donald springs to mind as a paceman who never really made it as 'less quick but more guileful' type. ( Dont know if im right there...)

[Fontaine]

Maybe that's your answer? That Indian bowlers are more intelligent? It was always going to come down to brains v brawn.

I was just speaking in terms of the four bowlers I mentioned because it's pretty well documented that Zaheer did all those things to prolong his career and prevent injuries to his heel which troubled him a few years ago. In terms of being more intelligent? I don't know. Circumstances and flat pitches will force any bowler to rethink his strategy. It's ineviteable. Take James Anderson who is a great swing bowler and bowls at pace. On his last tour in India he bowled on flat, batting tracks. He ended up bowling something like 60 over, and went wicketless. If he was an Indian bowler do you think he would continue with his regular bowling habits or try to change and focus more on economy by bowling for accuracy rather than swing/pace? The fact is if James Anderson was Indian his career would long be finished before it began.

[Fontaine]

We are never going to get that kind of bowlers. I am pretty sure our bowlers can bowl 145k when they put effort. But they don't have the stamina to sustain it.

That depends on fitness. Rp Singh has hit speeds of 142/144 when bowling at his best and peak fitness. There's no reason to believe he can't sustain that if his overs are monitored and he stays in top physical shape.

[CG]

Fontaine, yes you mentioned it. But you then ascribe the state of our pitches as the reason for this drop in pace en masse. See, I dont agree with that. Do we really believe that Pakistan, Sri Lanka or even Bangladesh have pitches that differ a lot from ours? Yet they have genuine above 140 kmph bowlers. Lets leave Bangladesh out. Our other two neighbours have a wealth of genuine pace bowling which has not flagged for a few seasons now. How do we explain that? My take is that there are factors other than just the pitches at play here.

who? did not you see the india srilanka series malinga their fastest bowler was bowling at 130-138km/h now dropped- video-www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxp-FWxisvo fernando-bowling at 135-140 dropped,kulasekra bowls at 125-130,thushara at 130-135, lakmal at 130-135, coming to pakistan bowlers they were clocked at 130-139 in srilanka and pakistan,its just at australia like our bowler are clocked at higher speeds they clock higher,when they bowl in subcontinent they clock 130-135km/h [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPUyEaj0XdM]YouTube- Pakistan vs Sri Lanka - 3rd Test - Day 5 July 24 2009 Cricket Highlights [part 1][/ame] just see the videos your question is answered

[CG]

The first test match against Bangla had a good pitch that offered good seam movement and both Ishant/Khan and some of the Bangla bowlers looked good bowling on it. Except for She-santh. Instead of seaming the ball and asking questions of the batsmen he was too busy bowling no-balls, and getting slogged around the park. And what's this lie about She being good against top batsmen? Here's a list of batsmen She has dismissed. He sucks against the good batsmen he's faced. http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/34274.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=dis_dismissals;spanmin1=01+Jan+2007;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling;view=batsman_summary] Stats

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: your stats show how many top batsman he has dismissed STATS

[CG]

Dude there's no point discussing this if you don't compare like with like. I've already said numerous times that Ishant just finished his first season so there's no point comparing him to Shree who's been around the international stage for what 5 years? Ishant is still learning whereas Sree has pretty much played in all conditions, against almost all teams. There is NO comparison. Ishant definitely needs to improve though and as long as he shows that in the next few years then that's all we can expect from a bowlers who's just over 20. And I'm not questioning She's ability. I've already said he's talented plenty of times and we all know this. But what you seem to ignore is his inconsistency and injury issues. Once in a while he does play very well, but then it's followed up by periods of rubbish and injuries. That's not me saying it, but his track record. It's actually embarressing at times. Other teams expect their new ball bowlers with years of experience to be in the very least accurate and consistent. You may not be able to bowl 140kph yorkers and inswinging deliveries that seam off the pitch but in the very least every bowler needs to be consistent and accurate. After years of bowling, halfway through his career Sreesanth is still stuck on the basics and can't even bowl one spell of consistent bowling. Instead we hear excuses that oh, he picks up a few wickets now and then and had a great spell of bowling against SA half a decade ago. He's turning into our very own Harmison. Loads of talent but with the heart and mind of a mouse.

what inconsistancies are you talking about he has the best strikerate,average,fastestindian fast bowler to get 50 wickets,he is far more consistant than our other fast bowlers and he got 5 wikcets against sa in 2006 which you fool is not a decade ago, sreesanth is 4 years old in international crikcet has not played aginst pak,australia in tests. reallly you do not have any answer just writting crap.

[CG]

And maybe those who dont drop pace have the luxury of doing so when they have a much well defined bowling attack around them? Malcolm Marshall was never going to drop speed when Holding and Roberts were operating. He did not have to. But when Holding and Roberts dropped Marshall cut down his speed and improved on his guile. Same with everyone ranging from Waqar to Brett Lee. Why would Lee drop speed when he was selected to go simply for the kill? The moment he became the spearhead his speed dropped( not as alarming as Pathan but still). Same with Akram who went from tearaway to a swinger(not in the wrong sense of the word). Problem with Indian tearaway may be that they are selected for speed(Sreesanth, Ishant, Munaf). But which Indian fan would appreciate a bowler with speed at 145 kmph after India has been routed 3-0 and the bowler himself ending with 2 wickets for 315??? Maybe the day our bowling attack has teeth would be the day we discover a pace bowler. xxx

what pace bowler ? our guys clock faster in australia,newzealand than their seamers, we have a good fast bowling attack which has won us matches at home outbowled the australians who had johnson,lee,clarke and england who had flintoff,harmy,anderson also newzealnd so whats the problem?

[CG]

44 out of his 60 wickets are top order ( 1-5) batsmen. He doesn't pick cheap wickets. He is probably the best bowler against good batsmen. Pietersen 3 times Smith 4 times Kallis 3 times Amla 4 times Collingwood 4 times ABDV 3 times Gayle 3 times Lara 2 times Obvioulsy he has done well against top batsmen. You are just being impatient because of one test. Different bowlers suit different conditions. India until this Zak's exploits rarely depended one bowler. iT was always a collective effort.

do not show him stats bro he will not understand just ignore him.

[thevortex]

Yes, that's a good point. But can you be more specific? Which bowler was bowling consistently over 140 in India at first then failed to do so after a year on the same pitches? I can only think of bowlers like Munaf and to a certain degree Balaji and both got injuries to their back which required them to change/modify their actions and cut down on pace so they don't fall in this category.

How many examples do we need? Ishant Sharma Munaf Patel Sudip Tyagi (believe it or not I saw him bowling at over 140 kmph) R.P.Singh Irfan Pathan I am sure there are a few more cases who dont readily spring to mind. Sreesanth too lately seems to have joined this club. But I will need to watch him for one more series to be sure.

who? did not you see the india srilanka series malinga their fastest bowler was bowling at 130-138km/h now dropped- video-www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxp-FWxisvo fernando-bowling at 135-140 dropped,kulasekra bowls at 125-130,thushara at 130-135, lakmal at 130-135, coming to pakistan bowlers they were clocked at 130-139 in srilanka and pakistan,its just at australia like our bowler are clocked at higher speeds they clock higher,when they bowl in subcontinent they clock 130-135km/h

just see the videos your question is answered

Malinga was able to touch the 140 kmph mark occasionally as was Fernando. Kulasekhara and Lakmal are medium pacers. As somebody here pointed out there is no parallel for the phenomenon being witnessed here in India. A single season in International cricket and the pace goes out. I repeat - no parallel. Examples of Hadlee, Lillee et al do not fit into the discussion. They did not drop their pace after a season of international cricket. ________ LIVE SEX

[Fontaine]

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: your stats show how many top batsman he has dismissed STATS sucker are you mani on crikcet web?

Uhhh did you bother looking at the averages he has against these top batsmen? I thought it was fairly obvious to anyone with the least bit of common sense to actually read the number of times he's played against those batsmen like Peterson and how bad his average is against most of them. Surely you can't be this retarded?

[Fontaine]

what inconsistancies are you talking about he has the best strikerate' date='average,fastestindian fast bowler to get 50 wickets,he is far more consistant than our other fast bowlers and he got 5 wikcets against sa in 2006 which you fool[u'] is not a decade ago, sreesanth is 4 years old in international crikcet has not played aginst pak,australia in tests. reallly you do not have any answer just writting crap.

This is what I said:

Ishant is still learning whereas Sree has pretty much played in all conditions, against almost all teams.

had a great spell of bowling against SA half a decade ago

Not very good at this are you?

[Fontaine]

How many examples do we need? Ishant Sharma Munaf Patel Sudip Tyagi (believe it or not I saw him bowling at over 140 kmph) R.P.Singh Irfan Pathan I am sure there are a few more cases who dont readily spring to mind. Sreesanth too lately seems to have joined this club. But I will need to watch him for one more series to be sure.

Well, I already mentioned Munaf as a different case because he got injured very early on in his career and had to modify his action. Sudeep Tyagi also got a similar injury in a stress fracture only a year after playing cricket 2/3 years ago. When were Sharma/Pathan clocking over 140 consistently on Indian pitches?

[CG]

Uhhh did you bother looking at the averages he has against these top batsmen? I thought it was fairly obvious to anyone with the least bit of common sense to actually read the number of times he's played against those batsmen like Peterson and how bad his average is against most of them. Surely you can't be this retarded?

mate it does not matter averages against individual batsman are,he has gotten top class batsman out not tailenders and he is in the top 10 list of bowlers who have 50 wickets or more if you take the averages of batsman dismissed ,you can look at the other sreesanth thread,do not try to bend facts.

[CG]

Well, I already mentioned Munaf as a different case because he got injured very early on in his career and had to modify his action. Sudeep Tyagi also got a similar injury in a stress fracture only a year after playing cricket 2/3 years ago. When were Sharma/Pathan clocking over 140 consistently on Indian pitches?

tyagi clocked 142 versus srilanka in odis and yes i agree ishant and pathan never clocked 140km/h regularly in tests at home.

[CG]

he guy is our best fast bowler against toporder batsman- http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/34274.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling;view=dismissal_summary :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: