The Tendulkar Fatigue Syndrome

[Bumper]

Dhondy, you are fighting a losing battle. You are among the minority old timers who come here for insightful cricketing discussions. But the majority come here for pass time. Sachin is a national icon & judgments on his achievements or failings in the sport will never be objectively assessed. Personally i feel bored to read yet another Ponting vs Sachin thread. Each time some batsman is called great, invariably the discussion spirals to SRT vs XYZ territory. Sadly that is how most Indian fans think. Even after Sachin retires his legacy will continue. On the upside though Sachin has turned this place into a million hitter. And quality has given way to quantity. Thats how any venture this big evolves. ICF is no exception.

[Dhondy]

Just hanging on, Bumps, just about hanging on! It's been tough without you. When does that damn MBA or whatever you were doing end?:--D

[Bumper]

Dhondy, am curious how you compute average of a batsman against a single opponent bowler. Wouldnt the right way to look at it is to take the avg of the batsman in all the tests played when the bowler was in the XI. Because different players use diff strategies to score runs. Like you have pointed out, Sachin has always given the due respect for the big bowlers and picked the right bowlers to score runs off. Even Sehwag recently (in his interview on cricinfo) mentioned about the one thing that he worries about on the eve of the test match -- which is which opponent bowler is likely to get him out. Even Sehwag being the mad man that he is cautious about big bowlers (at least he says so).

[CSK Fan]

Well' date=' Sehwag does average 52 in H2H against Shoaib, so what you say is not true.[/quote'] I think, a couple of scores of 300+ and a 200 might have helped, dont you think? Plus the fact Sohaib did not play all 9 matches Sehwag played against Pak Consider this, if Sachin scores 150, he takes on an average 300 deliveries. thats 50 overs. Out of that, how many would he face from Akhtar? About 10? Even if he scores at 4 an over, he can socre only 40 runs in those overs. This is when Sachin scores a 150. When he scores 100, it will be about 30 runs at best. There would be times(and there was) when he fails, even gets a duck. So is an average of 26 all that bad?

[Guest BossBhai]

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[CSK Fan]

Sachin is a national icon & judgments on his achievements or failings in the sport will never be objectively assessed. Personally i feel bored to read yet another Ponting vs Sachin thread. Each time some batsman is called great, invariably the discussion spirals to SRT vs XYZ territory. Sadly that is how most Indian fans think..

But Bumper, I have heard experienced cricketers and commentators discussing Sachin VS any batsman in form time and time again. I have seen articles written by greats in comparison. It is not a recent phenomenon. Its not an Indian Phenomenon. I have seen threads for Sachin against XYZ player in all cricketing forums and not started by an Indian in most. Why blame Indians?

[Bumper]

Just hanging on' date=' Bumps, just about hanging on! It's been tough without you. When does that damn MBA or whatever you were doing end?:--D[/quote'] Thats another year & a half to go. But I dont believe I'll ever be a prolific poster that I used to be. As passionate as I may be about these conversations, I feel guilty spending more than 15 mins a day reading and writing stuff here. This is perhaps the most unproductive way to spend my free time. But this damn place is addictive though. I keep coming back here involuntarily. The day the likes of you, Lurks, marirs, Prof & Boss (to name a few) stop posting here I'll call it a day.

[Dhondy]

Dhondy, am curious how you compute average of a batsman against a single opponent bowler. Wouldnt the right way to look at it is to take the avg of the batsman in all the tests played when the bowler was in the XI. Because different players use diff strategies to score runs. Like you have pointed out, Sachin has always given the due respect for the big bowlers and picked the right bowlers to score runs off. Even Sehwag recently (in his interview on cricinfo) mentioned about the one thing that he worries about on the eve of the test match -- which is which opponent bowler is likely to get him out. Even Sehwag being the mad man that he is cautious about big bowlers (at least he says so).

Yes, but Sehwag doesn't have a strategy to deal with it. He bats the same way against the best. Sachin doesn't. My theory is that Ponting and Lara didn't either. a simple ball by ball analysis of Lara v McGrath (who got him 17 times?) would show that Lara's SR against McGrath was still quite high. Maybe that's why McGrath got him out so many times. Cause & effect? That's why the H2H average & SR is fascinating, Bumps. No place to hide, Boss says. Well, what's to stop you from avoiding taking a single off the last coupla deliveries off bowler B, if you want to avoid bowler A? My nasty suspicious mind can't figure out for example, why Sachin has faced less deliveries against Shoaib despite playing three more Tests than Sehwag.

[The Outsider]

Dhondy, don't have access to a computer right now so a longer post will have to wait, but wanted to make a couple of points : 1. The stats about Akhtar- Tendulkar are incomplete. From a rough estimate they would have faced off around 12-14 times. I don't think those numbers include the 194*. 2. I agree with you about Tendulkar's strategy to see off the best opposition bowlers and score off the rest. The first time I noticed it was when he was in imperious form at the MCG in '99. He carefully negotiated McGrath and went hammer and tongs after Warne. How this can be used to put him as an inferior batsman is beyond me.

[Dhondy]

Baah Doc ... I have plenty of threads acknowledging Sehwags greatness ... the only batsmen that I have not crunched stats enough are for VVS and RD. Shall rectify that one of these days. So to suggest that Iam being partial is not on :hitler:

Those who wield enormous power such as running a cricket database (gold!) should use it with total impartiality.:--D Do you qualify?

[Dhondy]

Dhondy, don't have access to a computer right now so a longer post will have to wait, but wanted to make a couple of points : 1. The stats about Akhtar- Tendulkar are incomplete. From a rough estimate they would have faced off around 12-14 times. I don't think those numbers include the 194*. 2. I agree with you about Tendulkar's strategy to see off the best opposition bowlers and score off the rest. The first time I noticed it was when he was in imperious form at the MCG in '99. He carefully negotiated McGrath and went hammer and tongs after Warne. How this can be used to put him as an inferior batsman is beyond me.

1. I checked Shwetabh. Feel free to cross-check. 2. Went out of my way to say that it didn't indicate inferiority- just a tradeoff. Why must one always impute motive to a simple observation.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[CSK Fan]

My nasty suspicious mind can't figure out for example, why Sachin has faced less deliveries against Shoaib despite playing three more Tests than Sehwag.

I can give you two reasons i) Sehwag has a 300+ score and a 200+ scores. Even at his strike rate, that still is a lot of deliveries faced ii) Sachin has got out very cheaply in a couple of matches. In fract he got out first ball in one. Arent the above two reasons enough to show why he has faced less deliveries than conspiracy theories? Wouldnt a guy averagiing in the 90s face more deliveries than one averaging in the 40s against Pak?

[CSK Fan]

1. I checked Shwetabh. Feel free to cross-check. 2. Went out of my way to say that it didn't indicate inferiority- just a tradeoff. Why must one always impute motive to a simple observation.

Dhondy, perhaps you are not aware, but the stats do not include not outs

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Dhondy]

I think, a couple of scores of 300+ and a 200 might have helped, dont you think? Plus the fact Sohaib did not play all 9 matches Sehwag played against Pak Consider this, if Sachin scores 150, he takes on an average 300 deliveries. thats 50 overs. Out of that, how many would he face from Akhtar? About 10? Even if he scores at 4 an over, he can socre only 40 runs in those overs. This is when Sachin scores a 150. When he scores 100, it will be about 30 runs at best. There would be times(and there was) when he fails, even gets a duck. So is an average of 26 all that bad?

MTC, please please don't make me want to jump off a long pier. Sehwag's HoH against Shoaib will only include matches Shoaib figured in, don't you think? Further, if you are implying that Sehwag had to play Shoaib less than Sachin by the dint of playing three less Tests, no, that doesn't apply, because he's actually played more deliveries off him than Sachin. Please see my post above. And whether an average of 26 is bad or not will only become clear on comparison. That's why I cited Viru's example and that's why I requested you for other H2Hs such as Lara & Punter.

[Dhondy]

absolutely .... most of the stats you have asked me to crunch over the yrs have resulted in SRT not comming up top. Yet I never refuse

Yeh dosti hum nahin todengey...:two_thumbs_up: Why do you think I made a comeback after being inactive for several months?

[Dhondy]

Dhondy' date=' perhaps you are not aware, but the stats do not include not outs[/quote'] Baap, this is player v player from databases when available- actual runs scored- and when not available, gleaned directly from commentary logs.

[Dhondy]

I can give you two reasons i) Sehwag has a 300+ score and a 200+ scores. Even at his strike rate, that still is a lot of deliveries faced ii) Sachin has got out very cheaply in a couple of matches. In fract he got out first ball in one. Arent the above two reasons enough to show why he has faced less deliveries than conspiracy theories? Wouldnt a guy averagiing in the 90s face more deliveries than one averaging in the 40s against Pak?

i) Well, Sachin got 194 too. ii) Sehwag got out first or second ball against the very same bowler at R'pindi.

[Guest BossBhai]

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