Pakistanis in Israel ? WTF

[Pioneer]

Its not about aid. Israel said that the cargo can be delivered via the ICRC or the UN through the land route. But this moron and the idiots who he supports would not agree.

Trying to defy a barbaric blockade is far from moronic IMO. Well agree to disagree

[The Outsider]

Abdus Salam was declared a non-muslim, he fled his country. Non-muslims are discriminated in pakistan because of their religion and denied some very fundamental rights by the law itself. He was clearly not a pakistani "citizen" in the full spirit of the word. Several of us referred to Faisal Shehzad as a pakistani - not because of citizenship (he was a US citizen) - but because he was paki in spirit.

What a rubbish analogy! Abdus Salam was born and grew up in Pakistan (then India) unlike Faizal Shehzaad. The official law to disbar Ahmadis was passed in the mid 70s. By that time he had already made the bulk of his scientific achievements and had been a crucial part of Pakistan's nuclear program for almost a decade. He even invoked verses from the Quran in his Nobel prize acceptance speech. I wonder when Faizal Shehzaad worked in the Department of Defense, for example? Just because your mind is not able to assimilate things like there can be 'respected' people from Pakistan as well does not mean that you start giving crazy analogies like comparing Abdus Salam with Faizal Shehzaad.

[Lurker]

Abdus Salam was declared a non-muslim' date=' he fled his country. Non-muslims are discriminated in pakistan because of their religion and denied some very fundamental rights by the law itself. He was clearly not a pakistani "citizen" in the full spirit of the word. [b']Several of us referred to Faisal Shehzad as a pakistani - not because of citizenship (he was a US citizen) - but because he was paki in spirit. He was not aboard the ship to merely cover the event, he was wholly with the organizers stated aim of breaking an Israeli naval blockade - therefore a moron.

Faisal Shehzad was as much an American as BB is American.:winky: Shehzad received his citizenship 2 years or so ago, and mostly because of his marriage. For all practical purposes he spent 2/3rd of his life in Pakistan and of the rest period also he spent a considerable time in Pakistan. How is he an American, apart from the technicality? On the other hand Abdus Samad was a Pakistani and would have been a Pakistani had be not been hounded out.

[seedhi]

What a rubbish analogy! Abdus Salam was born and grew up in Pakistan (then India) unlike Faizal Shehzaad. The official law to disbar Ahmadis was passed in the mid 70s. By that time he had already made the bulk of his scientific achievements and had been a crucial part of Pakistan's nuclear program for almost a decade. He even invoked verses from the Quran in his Nobel prize acceptance speech. I wonder when Faizal Shehzaad worked in the Department of Defense, for example? Just because your mind is not able to assimilate things like there can be 'respected' people from Pakistan as well does not mean that you start giving crazy analogies like comparing Abdus Salam with Faizal Shehzaad.

Looks like my statement about respect and pakistani being two divergent notions which never meet has riled you more than the paki who I was addressing. Now that you mention it Abdus Salam did have something to do with pakistan's nuke program in its early years - thus laying the foundation for so much misery in the world. So upto 1974 he did use his knowledge for the banal and destructive aim of arming a genocidal nation with nukes and I condemn him for that. He was a great physicist no doubt and turned into a humanist after he got the treatment from his own country - for that he has my respect. I am not comparing the two but only saying even though Faisal Shehzad was a US citizen, he definitely remained a pakistani by nature, thought and action. Similarly, even though Salam remained a paki citizen, his outlook and the nature of pakistan after 1970s could not have been further apart - much as he thought himself to be a pakistani, the pakistani nation had disowned him. The pakistani nation on its own capable of only producing terrorists, either active or dormant. Very few like Salam are lucky enough to effect a transformation, forced by circumstances like the Ahmadi law and escape to the west. Almost all others retain that dormant terrorist in them even after change of environment and citizenship, if not becoming active ones like Kasab right in the beginning.

[seedhi]

Faisal Shehzad was as much an American as BB is American.:winky: Shehzad received his citizenship 2 years or so ago, and mostly because of his marriage. For all practical purposes he spent 2/3rd of his life in Pakistan and of the rest period also he spent a considerable time in Pakistan. How is he an American, apart from the technicality?

Thats exactly what I am saying - Shehzad was a through and through pakistani (of the dormant terrorist variety) even though he lived in and had US citizenship.

On the other hand Abdus Samad was a Pakistani and would have been a Pakistani had be not been hounded out.

Again that is exactly what I am saying, you have subconsciously echoed me. Abdus Salam was technically a pakisani citizen till his death. But as you say, he was really not a "pakistani" after 1974 when he was hounded out. Had he remained a "pakistani" he probably might have ended up arming the Taliban with nukes. But he was jolted out of his pakistaniat by the Ahmadi law which declared him a non-muslim and forced him to live in Europe.

[CSK Fan]

Looks like my statement about respect and pakistani being two divergent notions which never meet has riled you more than the paki who I was addressing. .

What kind of biased, bigoted thinking is this?

[Lurker]

Again that is exactly what I am saying' date=' you have subconsciously echoed me. Abdus Salam was technically a pakisani citizen till his death. But as you say, he was really not a "pakistani" after 1974 when he was hounded out. Had he remained a "pakistani" he probably might have ended up arming the Taliban with nukes. But he was jolted out of his pakistaniat by the Ahmadi law which declared him a non-muslim and forced him to live in Europe.[/quote'] I think you are putting too much emphasis on Nationality as such. I beleive what Shwetabh is alluding to here is that there have been great Pakistanis, his example being Abdus Salam. I would throw in a few names there too(Faiz for example). Just because Pakistan is in a mess today does not mean you should make a comment to the order of - No Pakistani, alive or dead, could claim to be respected. You are kinda clinging onto the fact that Salam was booted out of Pakistan, me thinks even if he was a Pakistani today you would still have made the same comment!! Just an (un)educated guess on my part. xxx

[Rajiv]

Food for thought: Aren't most Desis Citizens on paper only Our mannerism, lifestyle etc is still Indian and the citizenship only oozes out on Airport immigration lines Phir Bhi Dil hain Hindustani

[Lurker]

Food for thought: Aren't most Desis Citizens on paper only Our mannerism' date= lifestyle etc is still Indian and the citizenship only oozes out on Airport immigration lines Phir Bhi Dil hain Hindustani

Wait for next generation to take over. A lot of Indian parents, mostly on overseas assignment, get pregnant while abroad and then take "American" (or Canadian, or British) baby back home where he would eventually grow up and then shipped 15 years later to US on American passport. I hate to sound cynical but many a parents must actually plan for this considering how often I see a TCSer land in US and get pregnant soon enough. So yes wait 15 years or so and see how it all came full circle.:winky:

[seedhi]

I think you are putting too much emphasis on Nationality as such. I beleive what Shwetabh is alluding to here is that there have been great Pakistanis, his example being Abdus Salam. I would throw in a few names there too(Faiz for example). Just because Pakistan is in a mess today does not mean you should make a comment to the order of - No Pakistani, alive or dead, could claim to be respected. You are kinda clinging onto the fact that Salam was booted out of Pakistan, me thinks even if he was a Pakistani today you would still have made the same comment!! Just an (un)educated guess on my part. xxx

I dont want to get into another argument, but it is fascinating how you and that other male Arundhati Roy in this thread are so riled up by a statement about pakistani nature made by me to a pakistani. pakistanion se itna pyaar mohabbat sehat ke liye theek nahin.

[Lurker]

I dont want to get into another argument' date=' but [b']it is fascinating how you and that other male Arundhati Roy in this thread are so riled up by a statement about pakistani nature made by me to a pakistani. pakistanion se itna pyaar mohabbat sehat ke liye theek nahin.

Not fascinating but simply obvious, isnt it? I suspect you do not know much about Faiz, for example. If you did you wouldnt have made that comment in the first place. People who use broadstrokes more often than not are ignorant about the very subject they are commenting upon. Something you may want to consider. xxx

[seedhi]

Not fascinating but simply obvious, isnt it? I suspect you do not know much about Faiz, for example. If you did you wouldnt have made that comment in the first place. People who use broadstrokes more often than not are ignorant about the very subject they are commenting upon. Something you may want to consider. xxx

Think of the unbiased human consciousness as a pot of tomato soup. Now the development of a pakistani is like adding urine into that soup as garnish. It may be a drop of urine or a cup but it still spoils that soup. Doing business with a paki is like consuming that soup. Some, like Salam do manage to accomplish the exceedingly difficult task of distilling out that urine, but its rare. And if someone were to tell me to have such a soup from which urine has been distilled out, I would still refuse.

[Lurker]

Think of the unbiased human consciousness as a pot of tomato soup. Now the development of a pakistani is like adding urine into that soup as garnish. It may be a drop of urine or a cup but it still spoils that soup. Doing business with a paki is like consuming that soup. Some' date=' like Salam do manage to accomplish the exceedingly difficult task of distilling out that urine, but its rare. And if someone were to tell me to have such a soup from which urine has been distilled out, I would still refuse.[/quote'] That mindset is more of a roadchap way of looking at things and I am sure, or so I hope, that maybe one day you may look back at that comment alluding a nation of 200 million populace as urine, and wonder what you were thinking. Till then I shall leave you with Faiz Ahmed Faiz's Dil naa-umeed to nahin nakaam hi to hai Lambi hai ghum ki shaam, magar shaam hi to hai. xxx

[The Outsider]

seedhi, you need professional counseling.

[yoda]

What kind of biased' date=' bigoted thinking is this?[/quote'] Biased/bigoted? We are talking about a country which hates us, wants us destroyed and will continue to nurture and grow terrorists destined to kill innocents in India. Don't see what is bigoted/biased about denying respect to such a rogue neighbor.