Ganapathy joins India A squad in England

[Brainfade]

Well this is an A team, no one here is international class. Not yet certainly Bit silly to replace a frontline bowler with a bits and pieces type player. I would agree with sending Ishant there to get his rhythm back. In fact the pace lineup for this A tour should have been Irfan, Santh, Ishant, Rudra PS. That way these guys, who we KNOW are international class can get to bowl long spells in helpfuls conditions...get the bowling feel back... without the strain of playing for an actual county

Spot on. There just doesn't seem to be a coherent strategy towards developing and nurturing fast bowlers. Every one of the bowlers that you have listed have at some point succeeded internationally and need to be given an opportunity to gradually find their zone.

[The Outsider]

Mithun is from South Zone, so obviously had to be replaced by someone from South Zone. With Sreesanth out of favor, Ganapathy would be the only other choice. As simple as that, don't know why you guys are discussing all these complicated theories about performance, potential, and long term planning.

[Brainfade]

Mithun is from South Zone' date=' so obviously had to be replaced by someone from South Zone. With Sreesanth out of favor, Ganapathy would be the only other choice. As simple as that, don't know why you guys are discussing all these complicated theories about performance, potential, and long term planning.[/quote'] For a while, I really believed that we were past the zonal politics. So much for that, eh?

[ViruRulez]

The batting looks a lot better in this A team but the bowling is not upto the mark especially the fast bowlers .. except Unadkat nobody is worth mentioning here .. I would have given chance again to Yadav and Dinda instead .. they are better than these Ganpaties for sure .. hope he does not turn into another southie legend like Murali Vijay, KKD etc.

[drizzle]

Apart from the obvious facts, don't we have to give as many chance as possible to available seamers, to unearth a useful one,considering how our seamers go down like flies in international cricket? What purpose will a bits and pieces player serve?

That is a good point Chandan but you yourself keep bragging about how Umesh Yadav and Dinda have not taken any wickets and blaming it on the IPL in the other thread. And you also say that talent can be spotted and one shouldnt rely too much on stats, then why not use the same yardstick for Umesh Yadav? He is one of the more exciting talents to have emerged in the last couple of years. After all, this is his first series, and today he bowled four overs and you are after him again. Look at how much the batsmen scored, less than 200. Do you really expect the bowlers to defend such a low total?

[Chandan]

That is a good point Chandan but you yourself keep bragging about how Umesh Yadav and Dinda have not taken any wickets and blaming it on the IPL in the other thread. And you also say that talent can be spotted and one shouldnt rely too much on stats' date=' then why not use the same yardstick for Umesh Yadav? He is one of the more exciting talents to have emerged in the last couple of years. After all, this is his first series, and today he bowled four overs and you are after him again. Look at how much the batsmen scored, less than 200. Do you really expect the bowlers to defend such a low total?[/quote'] If you read that, then you would have read also in that same thread that I wrote those posts not to demean a promising bowler but to reply to those speed fanatics on this forum who think bowling at 140k+ automatically gives a bowler bagful of wickets. And it was also a reply to those forummers who keep on bragging about few IPL performances which should result in automatic selection for ODI or T20I, according to them! It is clear that raw pace alone can't give bowlers the power to make breakthroughs. One has to work damn hard to ensure that he gets wickets and IPL performances are absolutely trash and mean nothing when it comes to performing in international matches.

[youngindia]

. I think he is an allrounder in the rajat bhatia mould ( albeit a little faster bowler)

and is rajat bhatia international material??? neither is ganapathy.

i trust you have been watching all his matches and seen enough of his bowling and batting to make this judgement. or have you ?

i don't require a more than a few deliveries for players, well short of being high quality talent. they are *too obvious* that they are not up to it.. only for players near a certain high level, you require a reserved judgement.

On the bolded part, I think you are being unfair to Ganpathy. He may be a bits and pieces player but unless he is given a chance how would we know what he can do? Why prejudge his skills?

if he is a "bits and pieces player", then he is useless. international sports is not like typical regular office job where the average and mediocre can do a job if they work honestly. they are expected to compete against the best in the world. you have to be highly talented, you have to be a matchwinner to survive. maybe you shud have a realistic appraisal of who can survive at that level.

It is not just him, I keep hearing this term bandied about on the forum, I just wonder what exactly people mean by international class?

players who lack high talent and high quality in their games to have even reasonable success at imternational level.

[f2000560]

and is rajat bhatia international material??? neither is ganapathy. i don't require a more than a few deliveries for players, well short of being high quality talent. they are *too obvious* that they are not up to it.. only for players near a certain high level, you require a reserved judgement. .

Ok if i had said Robin Singh mold would it have made any difference ? I amnot saying he is going to be our Kapil or an Imran. You i think are getting confusing international class with legendary. not everyone who plays the the game has to be legendary i for one wouldn't mind an all rounder who averages in the thirties with ball and bat.

[Patriot_Nikhil]

Ok if i had said Robin Singh mold would it have made any difference ? I amnot saying he is going to be our Kapil or an Imran. You i think are getting confusing international class with legendary. not everyone who plays the the game has to be legendary i for one wouldn't mind an all rounder who averages in the thirties with ball and bat.

With those figures, he will be celebrated as a "legend" and the "best ever" in a certain country... PS - Afridi, anyone... :--D

[youngindia]

You i think are getting confusing international class with legendary. not everyone who plays the the game has to be legendary i for one wouldn't mind an all rounder who averages in the thirties with ball and bat.

stupid and dumb comment.i am pretty clear on what i am talkin about. you can be all time great, great, good ,average at international level. if you are a top tier team, you dont't want your players to be less than "good". that's the requirement for india nowadays, robin singh or prabakhar would be average at international level.but they shud not find a place indian team nowadays . players like vinay joginder and ganapathy are not even that.

[f2000560]

stupid and dumb comment.i am pretty clear on what i am talkin about. you can be all time great, great, good ,average at international level. if you are a top tier team, you dont't want your players to be less than "good". that's the requirement for india nowadays, robin singh or prabakhar would be average at international level.but they shud not find a place indian team nowadays . players like vinay joginder and ganapathy are not even that.

I agree the Ranji trophy due to its homogeneous pitches tends to produce an army of ordinary players and its highly likely that Ganapathy is one of them. I can't really vouch for his skill or ability cause i haven't seen enough. But the path you seem to suggesting, which is the selectors rely heavily on a subjective criterion or intuition (which could vary immensely between two individuals) to identify good player,overlooking good performance in the Ranji if he is perceived not to be of international class. This could seriously undermine and probably disincentivise players to do well in the Ranji and domestic competitions cause the selectors are going to pip for who they think is "international class". What i am trying to say is if there is a genuine vacancy give the guy chance and by all means discard him if he is not up to the mark but trying to make an already contentious and arbitrary process more arbitrary and prone to personal whims and fancies will undermine the domestic competitions. Further in a lot of areas India is weak for example seamers we can only keep trying alternatives before we settle on something that works and some times it will have to be average or only slightly above average cause no matter how top tier a team you are you do not have too many viable options in that area ( Australia for instance is still trying to find a spinner to replace warne) , Thats pretty much the case with seaming allrounders as well ( with Pathan still being the best choice imho). we might have to circle around till we find a guy who works and probably fix the guys who don't. i don't think there is some exceptional talent we are ignoring by choosing ganapathy. Lastly most critics of this selection (not the ones who seem to cry hoarse of bias) have put forward some credible alternatives but you seem intent only on panning the selection and the player. i would love to hear which international class player we are leaving behind by selecting CG sure you must have watched a lots of players bowl a few balls and bat a few, an astute observer such as yourself must have had no trouble sorting the wheat from the chaff

[f2000560]

What happens to Mithun now? He was rushed to Zimbabwe and predictably didn't get a game and the precious tour of England is gone too? Naa ghar ka naa ghaat ka?

sad they should send him to the A tour and witghdraw ganapathy if that is possible

[youngindia]

This could seriously undermine and probably disincentivise players to do well in the Ranji and domestic competitions cause the selectors are going to pip for who they think is "international class".

who cares about mediocre players getting demotivated? a excellent sporting system would have weeded them out long back. the better quality juniors usually have some backing already from quarters, who would have noticed their talent when they rose thru the ranks.they will stay in the hunt. that's what you want.

What i am trying to say is if there is a genuine vacancy give the guy chance

chance to show how incompetent he is ? if you can see there is at best mediocre quality in a guy's game, there is NO POINT whatsoever giving him a chance. you give chances only to guys who have a reasonable chance to succeed.

and by all means discard him if he is not up to the mark but trying to make an already contentious and arbitrary process more arbitrary and prone to personal whims and fancies will undermine the domestic competitions.

there is nothing "arbitary or contentious" as you think.i am able to understand selections all the time with ease. there are enuf clues and indicators available in public to understand the flow.

Further in a lot of areas India is weak for example seamers we can only keep trying alternatives before we settle on something that works and some times it will have to be average or only slightly above average

the question is how does picking an incompetent guy helps? its of NO USE.

Lastly most critics of this selection (not the ones who seem to cry hoarse of bias) have put forward some credible alternatives

why shud not i raise the red flag if an incompetent guy gets picked? nothing wrong here.