seedhi Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 MM please post link to the thread where you have pulled quote as Seedhi has done so with his.Since he has refrained to post the link himself' date=' this is the link to my post about which he is riled up about. [url']http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?p=839265&highlight=bomb+away+with+impunity#post839265 . Judge for yourself whether I was responding to a scenario envisioned by marirs_mania of Taliban targeting Kashmir or not.
Ram Posted June 30, 2010 Author Posted June 30, 2010 ^^I don't exactly see the problem here. If preemptive first strikes on Pakistan saved millions of lives in India wouldn't you do it? There are lots of problems; Seedhi, by own words, would attack Pakistan unilaterally and pre-emptively (for a multitude of reasons including but not limited to, the recapturing of PoK), even if there was no apparent, large-scale threat to human lives. His only condition – The current Pakistani civilian govt. must topple, the Taliban must take over the country and the US confiscates Pakistani nukes. In fact, such a scenario, according to Seedhi, gives us the license to bomb Pakistan ‘with impunity’ to achieve what I believe he considers our narrow strategic goals. Secondly, going by his own scenario, if the world ‘de-nukes’ Pakistan, there is never going to be a Pakistani threat to ‘millions of Indians’. Where is the question of reckless bombing of Pakistani targets, if the biggest threat to our secuirity (Pakistani nukes) is already gone? I advocated that, if such a scenario happens (Taliban takes over Pakistan, its nukes are confiscated) AND if Taliban orchestrates/escalates terror attacks on Indian targets, then the Indian govt. reserves the right of surgical strikes on Taliban camps/targets within Pakistan, to cripple their ability to gather, amass and train. Seedhi’s position is way more extremist. Not only would he IMMEDIATELY attack Pakistan to take back PoK, he would bomb Pakistani areas with ‘impunity’ with little regard for human casualties.
yoda Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 Seedhi your position is as mainstream as it gets. I bet most Indians would be all for getting back PoK which obviously was ours to begin with before the illegal takeover. Only question is whether we are capable of it or not given that we needed US intervention for situations like Kargil.
Guest Gunner Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 There are lots of problems; Seedhi, by own words, would attack Pakistan unilaterally and pre-emptively (for a multitude of reasons including but not limited to, the recapturing of PoK), even if there was no apparent, large-scale threat to human lives. His only condition – The current Pakistani civilian govt. must topple, the Taliban must take over the country and the US confiscates Pakistani nukes. In fact, such a scenario, according to Seedhi, gives us the license to bomb Pakistan ‘with impunity’ to achieve what I believe he considers our narrow strategic goals. Secondly, going by his own scenario, if the world ‘de-nukes’ Pakistan, there is never going to be a Pakistani threat to ‘millions of Indians’. Where is the question of reckless bombing of Pakistani targets, if the biggest threat to our secuirity (Pakistani nukes) is already gone? I advocated that, if such a scenario happens (Taliban takes over Pakistan, its nukes are confiscated) AND if Taliban orchestrates/escalates terror attacks on Indian targets, then the Indian govt. reserves the right of surgical strikes on Taliban camps/targets within Pakistan, to cripple their ability to gather, amass and train. Seedhi’s position is way more extremist. Not only would he IMMEDIATELY attack Pakistan to take back PoK, he would bomb Pakistani areas with ‘impunity’ with little regard for human casualties. Ok, I see your point. I was under the impression we are talking serious threat to India although a taliban government does pose a serious security risk it is not one which demands carpet bombing. And a denuclearized Pakistan is a very low intensity threat this was widely acknowledged when we gave up our strategic conventional superiority over Pakistan by going nuclear in 1998.
Ram Posted June 30, 2010 Author Posted June 30, 2010 What is so indefensible about my position? PoK is OUR TERRITORY' date= it DOES NOT BELONG TO PAKISTAN! We have all the right to retake it or parts of it. Just to refresh your memory, in 1984 India launched Operation Meghdoot to capture unoccupied territory which was also claimed by pakistan. We had the opportunity and we captured Siachen about which pakistan cries till this day. Similarly in the future if the opportunity arises to retake PoK or parts of it, I am sure the Indian govt will not hesitate to retake whatever is feasible. More irrelevant nonsense. The discussion isn’t about the history or geography of PoK, its about what you, Seedhi, would do, if the Taliban takes over Pakistan and the world confiscates its nukes. The answer is plain and simple - You would attack Pakistan, unilaterally, without provocation and bomb its targets with ‘impunity’, a stand that you have shamelessly denied all along but now stand completely exposed.
seedhi Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 Seedhi your position is as mainstream as it gets. I bet most Indians would be all for getting back PoK which obviously was ours to begin with before the illegal takeover. Only question is whether we are capable of it or not given that we needed US intervention for situations like Kargil.There is actually a Parliament resolution and ofcourse the Constitution of India which affirms that the whole of Jammu and Kashmir including PoK and Aksai Chin are a part of India. The issue is the sanctity of the LoC then when has pakistan respected it all these years when it sent terrorists across the border. Ofcourse, if India gets a decent opportunity it should expand the LoC upwards into PoK. We did so in 1984 with Siachen.
Ram Posted June 30, 2010 Author Posted June 30, 2010 Ok' date=' I see your point. I[b'] was under the impression we are talking serious threat to India although a taliban government does pose a serious security risk it is not one which demands carpet bombing. And a denuclearized Pakistan is a very low intensity threat this was widely acknowledged when we gave up our strategic conventional superiority over Pakistan by going nuclear in 1998. Absolutely, that is the whole point of the discussion. And if you go by Seedhi, assuming Taliban takes over Pakistan, even if it doesn’t engage in terror activities inside India, he would still proceed with his unilateral bombing of Pakistani targets Who advocates a bombing af an entire country, even when there’s serious, large scale threat from the powers within that country? Oh I know, Mr.Seedhi of course.
seedhi Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 More irrelevant nonsense. The discussion isn’t about the history or geography of PoK, its about what you, Seedhi, would do, if the Taliban takes over Pakistan and the world confiscates its nukes. The answer is plain and simple - You would attack Pakistan, unilaterally, without provocation and bomb its targets with ‘impunity’, a stand that you have shamelessly denied all along but now stand completely exposed. EVERY DAY PAKISTAN IS PROVOKING US. EVERY DAY! They send hundreds of terrorists across the LoC, kill hundreds of our civilians, soldiers, bomb our cities. PAKISTAN HAS KILLED AROUND 100,000 of our civilians and soldiers in the last 25 years! Was Kargil not a provocation? Are the thousands of dead civilians all over India not provocation enough? You have the gall to say that pakistan does not provoke or has not provoked us! SHAME ON YOU!
yoda Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 EVERY DAY PAKISTAN IS PROVOKING US. EVERY DAY! They send hundreds of terrorists across the LoC, kill hundreds of our civilians, soldiers, bomb our cities. PAKISTAN HAS KILLED AROUND 100,000 of our civilians and soldiers in the last 25 years! Was Kargil not a provocation? Are the thousands of dead civilians all over India not provocation enough? You have the gall to say that pakistan does not provoke or has not provoked us! SHAME ON YOU! Excellent post. Sums up the situation we are facing and why we can't afford to keep twiddling our thumbs hoping everything will be alright one day. That said, unlike Israel, I feel we are simply not militarily mighty enough to do squat!
Ram Posted June 30, 2010 Author Posted June 30, 2010 EVERY DAY PAKISTAN IS PROVOKING US. EVERY DAY! They send hundreds of terrorists across the LoC, kill hundreds of our civilians, soldiers, bomb our cities. PAKISTAN HAS KILLED AROUND 100,000 of our civilians and soldiers in the last 25 years! Was Kargil not a provocation? Are the thousands of dead civilians all over India not provocation enough? You have the gall to say that pakistan does not provoke or has not provoked us! SHAME ON YOU! SHAME ON YOU for being an open advocate of state sponsored genocide and mass murder of innocent men, women and children of Pakistan. I don’t know how you can sleep in the night after having such murderous thoughts! And beyond anything else, even bigger shame on you for laying the groundwork of prolonged, armed confrontation between two neighbors that will lead to 10s of 1000s of casualties on the Indian side. You want to reclaim a piece of land on the back of the lives of innocent civilians! You call yourself an Indian, but your recipe of unprovoked, reckless attacks will lay the ground for decades of confrontation, 10s of 1000s of innocent lives lost and a whole generation of Indians impoverished by the cost of conflict!
Ram Posted June 30, 2010 Author Posted June 30, 2010 Wow, what a pathetic volte face from Messers Seedhi. All along, he kept claiming that he never advocated for unilateral bombing of Pakistan if the Taliban took over. Now that he stands so ruthlessly exposes, now come the rain of reasons and justifications, that yes, we should indeed do it! Dude, I have to admit, that was a super-quick flip!
seedhi Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 SHAME ON YOU for being an open advocate of state sponsored genocide and mass murder of innocent men' date=' women and children of Pakistan. I don’t know how you can sleep in the night after having such murderous thoughts![/size']So a one sided slaughter of Indian civilians by pakistani terrorists is fine, because that is exactly what is happening today. EVERY DAY PAKISTANI TERRORISTS ARE KILLING OUR SOLDIERS AND CIVILIANS. EVERY DAY! The count is over 100,000 in Kashmir itself. Not to mention the thousands dead in bombings in our cities. Just because a lot of people have become used to it does not make this situation tenable. Let me repeat. If there is a feasible opportunity for India to use force to end this daily slaughter of Indian civilians by pakistani terrorists, it MUST be exercised no matter how many pakistanis die in the process. If that opportunity arises out of a Taliban takeover of a denuked pakistan then so be it. AN INDIAN LIFE SAVED IS WORTH MORE THAN ALL PAKISTANIS COMBINED!
seedhi Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 Wow, what a pathetic volte face from Messers Seedhi. All along, he kept claiming that he never advocated for unilateral bombing of Pakistan if the Taliban took over. Now that he stands so ruthlessly exposes, now come the rain of reasons and justifications, that yes, we should indeed do it! Dude, I have to admit, that was a super-quick flip!Unlike you I am not content to sit back and watch innocent Indians being killed EVERY DAY by pakistani terrorists.
seedhi Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 What if anything have half the posts on this thread got to do with the Joel Stein article :hmmm:Ask the clown marirs_mania who yanked off a post made several months ago from a completely unrelated thread.
Mandrake Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 btw...I think the article wasn't that bad...we need to learn to laugh at ourselves a bit..
Ram Posted June 30, 2010 Author Posted June 30, 2010 Ask the clown marirs_mania who yanked off a post made several months ago from a completely unrelated thread. I’d rather be a clown than a champion of mass murder and genocide like you. Why, what happened dude? Where’s you now famous ‘Oh, I never advocated for unilateral action’ line that you kept yapping?
Ram Posted June 30, 2010 Author Posted June 30, 2010 Unlike you I am not content to sit back and watch innocent Indians being killed EVERY DAY by pakistani terrorists. So recipe is to attack Pakistan and start what would inevitably become a decades long conflict that would lead to 10s of 1000s of lives of Indian soldiers and civilians lost, apart from the total bankrupting of the Indian state, leading to total lack of any state protection for the poor and needy, whose lives will now further deteriorate into abject poverty and chaos and a complete breakdown of all social services leading to near anarchy in the entire country? Bravo dude, bravo!
seedhi Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 I’d rather be a clown than a champion of mass murder and genocide like you. Why' date=' what happened dude? Where’s you now famous ‘Oh, I never advocated for unilateral action’ line that you kept yapping?[/quote']So pakistan can kill 100,000 Indian civilians, keep killing Indians every day, bombing our hotels, trains, markets in our cities and if India gets an opportunity to take action to end this slaughter that is unilateral?!! Are you completely blind to the DAILY terrorism that pakistan perpetrates against India?
Ram Posted June 30, 2010 Author Posted June 30, 2010 Ask the clown marirs_mania who yanked off a post made several months ago from a completely unrelated thread. Look who’s talking about unrelated stuff. Our very own Mr. Mass Murderer here accused Lurker of being ‘RACIST’ because he wanted ‘Indians to diversify into other areas apart from IT’. Now, he’s squirming uncomfortably when he’s called out for his shockingly, anti-India stand.
Ram Posted June 30, 2010 Author Posted June 30, 2010 So pakistan can kill 100,000 Indian civilians, keep killing Indians every day, bombing our hotels, trains, markets in our cities and if India gets an opportunity to take action to end this slaughter that is unilateral?!! Are you completely blind to the DAILY terrorism that pakistan perpetrates against India? And you’re completely blind to cost of war and conflict, oblivious to the fact that ANY war with Pakistan will have a debilitating influence on our entire country and population. The extremist forces in Pakistan are orchestrating the killings of 100s of innocent Indian every year. So whats your solution? Escalate the conflict, make it large scale and make sure the 100s of civilian deaths turn into 100s of 1000s of civilian deaths and an entire generation of Indian impoverished by war and conflict. What delusions!
Recommended Posts