Five ways to show that Sachin is not that Great

[Ram]

:two_thumbs_up:

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Ultimate_Game]

@My two cents, Great points and I have been one of the biggest Sachin fans throughout but I have to say that point no. 5 does have some merit. Over the years what I've realized is that whenever there's a tight situation or a close game in an important tourney Sachin generally doesn't get the job done. He is great at scoring runs in the series but he's not a "clutch hitter" if I could use baseball parlance. Sachin takes you agonizingly close but usually someone has to be around to finish the job and that to me is the only mark against SRT. E.g., chennai 99 against Pak, or even World cup 2003 game against Pak - Sachin scored 98 but he got out with around 100 to get and it was Yuvraj and Dravid who had to clean up. As most of the experts say, never leave the job to the next batsman and Sachin fails in that respect. I won't hold World cup 2003 final against him as it was our bowlers who bottled it and not Sachin. After all it's unrealistic to expect a team to chase 360 in a world cup final against the likes of McGrath & Lee and that too against an Aussie fielding side. Let me ask you a hypothetical question - Let's say India is playing Pakistan in World cup final in 2011 and is chasing 280. The Indian scorecard reads 201/5 in 38 overs. If you could pick two batsmen to be out there in the middle whom would you pick? I will go with Dhoni & Yuvraj, or even Dhoni & Raina. I have seen Dhoni & Yuvraj finish countless games and they may not be as talented as Sachin but when it comes to the crunch they usually deliver. After watching Sachin so many years in a similar situation Sachin would get out when the score is around 230 with the other batsman expected to finish the job with the tail. Similarly in a test match, India needs around 100 to get to win the match with 5 or 6 wickets down with one specialist batsman at the crease. Whom would you have? I will go with either Laxman, Dravid, Gambhir, Sehwag in the order stated. With Sachin at the crease I can see a 20 run loss when he gets out with 30 to get followed quickly by the tail. Sachin is a great batsman and has proven it over the years and will walk into my World XI team for tests and odis everytime but it will be due to his consistnt scoring and not for delivering in clutch situations. Every human has a shortcoming and for Sachin it's inconsistency to deliver at the crunch.

[Gunner_Mania]

^ Are you suggesting that he throws away his wicket?

[Ultimate_Game]

^ Are you suggesting that he throws away his wicket?

Not at all. What I am saying is he doesn't handle the pressure situations as well. In fact let me elaborate a bit... In my opinion Sachin does not see the game through even when he's set. Somehow he always gets out at the wrong time and others have to see the team through.

[UmarAkmal]

Not at all. What I am saying is he doesn't handle the pressure situations as well.

True that. Sachin captaincy record , 4th innings record & failure to perform in world cup semis & finals is a proof of that.

[Ultimate_Game]

True that. Sachin captaincy record ' date=' 4th innings record & failure to perform in world cup semis & finals is a proof of that.[/quote'] I disagree regarding the situations you referred to. Sachin has a pretty good record in the world cup semis - both in 96 and 2003. As for the final, you can't blame him, or anyone for that matter, for not chasing 360. I alluded to his inability to see the team through generally, i.e. you seldom see him not out. E.g., in 2003 wc game against Pak he scored 98 against Wasim, Waqar & Akhtar which was the reason India beat Pakistan, but he still got out when India needed 90 or so to win. This is what I'm referring to and not his record in semi-finals or finals.

[CSK Fan]

Wait, you were waiting to post this next week just to win POTW? Sorry. But i have always closed POTW on Sunday morning in India and Sat night in US.

No, there was another reason

[UmarAkmal]

I disagree regarding the situations you referred to. Sachin has a pretty good record in the world cup semis - both in 96 and 2003.

2003 semi final was against Kenya so it doesnt count. In 96 semi final, Sachin failed to finish the game for India unlike Inzi in 92 & Ponting in 2003 final.

As for the final, you can't blame him, or anyone for that matter, for not chasing 360.

Why not?? Sachin is God and better than Bradman as claimed by Indian fans but when he fails, blame his team mates and he becomes a normal player.

I alluded to his inability to see the team through generally, i.e. you seldom see him not out. E.g., in 2003 wc game against Pak he scored 98 against Wasim, Waqar & Akhtar which was the reason India beat Pakistan, but he still got out when India needed 90 or so to win. This is what I'm referring to and not his record in semi-finals or finals.

We are discussing semis & finals. Why are you bringing in league games??

[Sachinism]

True that. Sachin captaincy record ' date=' 4th innings record & failure to perform in world cup semis & finals is a proof of that.[/quote'] :haha:

[SachDan]

Whenever anyone's remotely criticizing Sachin, out of the blue appears this blabbermouth UmarAkmal and starts bashing Sachin as if he's the worst batsman ever..also successfully derails every thread he enters!

[Debutant]

Perfectly summed up. I always have found difficult to understand how people say Tendulkar is a selfish player and plays for only himself. Doesnt his runs help India. Again about his finishing.He opens.What do u expect.Will he always be there to hit the wining runs. People forget his 80s and 90s which he score as an opener but they think the batsman who score a 50 and hit the wining runs have won the match. Doesnt his runs which he scores to start an innings count???

[Ultimate_Game]

2003 semi final was against Kenya so it doesnt count. In 96 semi final, Sachin failed to finish the game for India unlike Inzi in 92 & Ponting in 2003 final. Why not?? Sachin is God and better than Bradman as claimed by Indian fans but when he fails, blame his team mates and he becomes a normal player. We are discussing semis & finals. Why are you bringing in league games??

1. Sachin has only played two semis and one final so the other semi counts as well. As for 96 the match never reached a situation where he could carry the team to a win. Remember Sachin opened the innings and took the team to a healthy 100 odd for 2 when he got out. I was referring to situations where he was the batsman remaining with end in sight but could not see the game through. Scoring 67 while chasing 250 is not bottling it IMO. However, if the score were 190/5 and Sachin was at the crease and then got out, it would have been the case of not seeing the team through. Inzi on the other hand was playing as no. 6 batsman so only had to throw his bat around at the death. The two situations are not comparable at all. 2. Even Bradman would struggle to take his team to a win while chasing 360 in a odi. It was our bowlers who bottled it up giving away 359 in the first place and Sachin had no option but to go for it as soon as he came in with no time allowed to settle in and get his eye in. 3. No, we are not discussing semis and finals as it's a very small sample of 3 games. We are talking pressure games and India-Pakistan in 2003 was a very high pressure game. India & Pak had not played each other for nearly two years and the game was talked about for over a year. Also, India had lost to Aus in the previous game and it would have been curtains had India lost the match.

[Debutant]

Why do runs scored in the finals and semis only count. You cant be in semis and finals if you dont win the super six and league matches. Highest runs in two world cups is not enough for some people.

[CSK Fan]

@My two cents, Great points and I have been one of the biggest Sachin fans throughout but I have to say that point no. 5 does have some merit. Over the years what I've realized is that whenever there's a tight situation or a close game in an important tourney Sachin generally doesn't get the job done. He is great at scoring runs in the series but he's not a "clutch hitter" if I could use baseball parlance. Sachin takes you agonizingly close but usually someone has to be around to finish the job and that to me is the only mark against SRT. E.g., chennai 99 against Pak, or even World cup 2003 game against Pak - Sachin scored 98 but he got out with around 100 to get and it was Yuvraj and Dravid who had to clean up. As most of the experts say, never leave the job to the next batsman and Sachin fails in that respect. I won't hold World cup 2003 final against him as it was our bowlers who bottled it and not Sachin. After all it's unrealistic to expect a team to chase 360 in a world cup final against the likes of McGrath & Lee and that too against an Aussie fielding side. Let me ask you a hypothetical question - Let's say India is playing Pakistan in World cup final in 2011 and is chasing 280. The Indian scorecard reads 201/5 in 38 overs. If you could pick two batsmen to be out there in the middle whom would you pick? I will go with Dhoni & Yuvraj, or even Dhoni & Raina. I have seen Dhoni & Yuvraj finish countless games and they may not be as talented as Sachin but when it comes to the crunch they usually deliver. After watching Sachin so many years in a similar situation Sachin would get out when the score is around 230 with the other batsman expected to finish the job with the tail. Similarly in a test match, India needs around 100 to get to win the match with 5 or 6 wickets down with one specialist batsman at the crease. Whom would you have? I will go with either Laxman, Dravid, Gambhir, Sehwag in the order stated. With Sachin at the crease I can see a 20 run loss when he gets out with 30 to get followed quickly by the tail. Sachin is a great batsman and has proven it over the years and will walk into my World XI team for tests and odis everytime but it will be due to his consistnt scoring and not for delivering in clutch situations. Every human has a shortcoming and for Sachin it's inconsistency to deliver at the crunch.

I dont agree with you. Since most of your examples consist of ODIs,Can you tell me, in ODIs, right from the time the game started, how many times has an opener remain unbeaten and guided his team to victory? An opener, not a no 3 or or a no4. Only a handful of times. If an opener stays till 50 overs he is bound to score more than 150 each time and thats not even possible. Dhoni and Raina are finsihers and its enough for them to score 50+ to be unbeaten at the end but Sachin will have to score 120+ to do the same. How is that a fair comparison? Also since, Sachin rarely gets to play in the last 10 overs, most of his experience lies in opening. How then can you expect an inexpected finisher to finish perfectly? he must be the only opener in the wolrd who is expected to finish matches for his team! As for test matches, BossBhai, can you do a stat on out of all the batsmen mentioned by UG, how many have guided the team to victory in 4th innings in how many games being not out and compare the number with Sachin's if you have the time? UG, its the perception and expectations built around Sachin which causes the illusion. Its a common fallacy of the human mind to remember things wrongly. Sachin has reached such a status that its his failure in crunch situations which stand out in our mind as its an aberration from his consistancy. We wont even remember his success in crunch situation, partly because we expected it, and partly because when he is batting we dont think its a crunch situation For others, who are inconsistant, its their once in a blue moon success in crunch situation which stands out. For example, UV is remembered for his natwest innings. So in our mind, he becomes a great presssure player! His thousand failures wont be remembered. With Sachin, its his failures that are so uncommon that we try to attach special significance to the match situation where he failed (even if there was none, he might have been in the same situation a 100 times and succeeded before) and conclude it must be a crunch situation which he failed!

[Gunner_Mania]

True that. Sachin captaincy record ' date=' 4th innings record & failure to perform in world cup semis & finals is a proof of that.[/quote'] Oh What irony :hysterical:

[CSK Fan]

2003 semi final was against Kenya so it doesnt count. In 96 semi final, Sachin failed to finish the game for India unlike Inzi in 92 & Ponting in 2003 final. Why not?? Sachin is God and better than Bradman as claimed by Indian fans but when he fails, blame his team mates and he becomes a normal player. We are discussing semis & finals. Why are you bringing in league games??

Did you even see the pitch conditon and the freaky way sachin got out in 96 semi finals or did you just check cricinfo? No other batsman crossed 15, the pitch was unplayable!! As for Inzi finishing, he scored some 40 odd runs in the final. Lol. Ponting failed in 3 world cup finals and succeded in only 1. Give saachin 4 chances and he will succed in at least 2! Your post is a classic example of distortions, half truths and complete lies Sachin has one of the best records in semi finals and finals in ODIs. He averages over 55 in finals and over 100 in finals won by india! in fact its Inzi who has a pathethic record in finals and semi-finals!

[CSK Fan]

True that. Sachin captaincy record ' date=' 4th innings record & failure to perform in world cup semis & finals is a proof of that.[/quote'] He did not fail in semis! he has scored more than60 in both. WC final was a one match so not enough sample. His 4th innings average is more than 99% of your batsman's overall average.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Shakthi]

2003 semi final was against Kenya so it doesnt count. In 96 semi final, Sachin failed to finish the game for India unlike Inzi in 92 & Ponting in 2003 final. Why not?? Sachin is God and better than Bradman as claimed by Indian fans but when he fails, blame his team mates and he becomes a normal player. We are discussing semis & finals. Why are you bringing in league games??

Sir may be u forgot the fact it was due to Sachin India went to finals in 2003 world cup its due to him India went to 1996 finals 2 and on both instances he was the leading run scorers which Aloo or Ponting couldnt do it yes he failed in final once but doesnt mean his abilities are limited. Sachin got out for freaky dismissal in 1996 semi final and rest of fools collapsed like cards and in 2003 he miscued the shot and got out.