I Know this is a bit obvious but..

[f.b.m]

ok, This has been in the back of the mind in the last 7-8 tests that India has played. Does anyone else think that bowling 1st is a better tactic to go for in India? Almost all of our wins have come when batting 2nd and I think there's a reason for this: Our chances of getting an innings victory are about the same as getting a regular victory pretty much regardless of the opposition (take the Mumbai against SL, or SA in Eden Gardens or the latest victory). I think the old adage of 'Win toss and bat first' has to be looked at again since it assumes that its only a crumbling wicket and spinners who can take wickets. What it does is completely ignores reverse swing as a way of taking wickets. I know this is a mix of captain obvious and captain hindsight but what do you guys reckon?

[ZodiaC]

Agreed. And I didn't quite get that reverse swing bit?

[Online]

I know this is a mix of captain obvious and captain hindsight but what do you guys reckon?

captain obvisight captain hindvious

[Ram]

Couple of things; This statement - 'Almost all of our wins have come when batting 2nd ‘- factually maybe true, but it was never designed to be that way. It isn’t like the team boffins got their heads together and said ‘Ok, here’s the thing. Lets always bowl first, that way, our chances of victory are significant..’. It so happens to be that way because our dear leader has this unfailing knack of losing the tosses. ‘I think the old adage of 'Win toss and bat first' has to be looked at again since it assumes that its only a crumbling wicket and spinners who can take wickets’ – And why reverse swing a factor only when we bowl first? Reverse swing is more a function of the nature of the pitch/outfield and not a necessarily directly reliant upon how much the wicket wears and tears. But coming back to the original question of what we should do when we win the toss, the answer is pretty much a no-brainer, especially on subcontinental conditions – BAT and BAT first.. ALWAYSS! Unless of course you’re talking about a pitch with a greenish tinge with heavily overcast conditions during the winter months in India, I cannot think of any other circumstance based on which the captain could even consider bowling first. We all know how flat the pitches in India can be, but days 4 and 5 are the business end of the match when things generally happen and you don’t want to be in a position of having to score runs to either win/save match in those circumstances. Now, given that we have pulled off so many last day chases/saves in the recent months, it is easy to be lulled into a false sense of security, but ask any international captain if he wants to bat last in India and his answer would be an emphatic ‘No’. Thats what they dislike doing the most and that was the precise reason why the Kiwis chose to bat first in the last test match, even though their premier opener was injured in pre-match warm-ups. Their fear of batting last in India is so much that itthumped their agony of losing their best batsmen of the series and they still chose to go ahead with their original plans.

[The Outsider]

Chasing 200+ scores regularly in the subcontinent is like playing with fire. Granted pitches have eased out and chasing 200+ is not the same challenge in India as it was even 10 years back, but it is still a tough ask. India have managed to do that regularly because they have an exceptional batting line up for the conditions. If the situation was reversed and the opposition was chasing such targets on a regular basis in the subcontinent, their percentage of failure would have been higher. Even so, the only 2 tests we have lost over the last 24 have been when we lost the toss, fielded, and the opposition made 500+.

[Sid]

I still think its a big risk,becoz on a flat wicket,to assume you will get the oppostion out for minimum possible runs is not a good idea and also it is good that from some time we have been performing remarkably in the 4th innings but still to play in the 4th inning is a difficult predicament and no team relishes playng in 4th innings of the test match. For me ,Win the toss and Bat first will always remain the mantra for a win ,especially on flat subcontinental tracks

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Hindustani]

We are winning simply because we have a kickass team with no less than 7-8 badass ni99as ... 50K+ test runs with 120+ shambars and 800wkts is some serious fire power ... not much can go wrong with that sort of batting lineup ...

exactly, India easily has the most strongest batting lineup in the world currently, best 4 test batsmen out of 10 in the world ..

[Online]

We are winning simply because we have a kickass team with no less than 7-8 badass ni99as ... 50K+ test runs with 120+ shambars and 800wkts is some serious fire power ... not much can go wrong with that sort of batting lineup ...

yes it seems like it has not sunk in for most people. This is a world class team.

[saneindian]

On batting wickets the strategy will never change. It will always remain win the toss and bat first. Why would you want to put the opposition in to give them the foirst use of good batting conditions. Yes we have done well after losing the toss and batting 2nd. But thats more due to the mental strength of this team and also due to the brilliance in the 4th innings chase. But can't keep risking a 4th innings chase all the time.

[CSK Fan]

We are winning simply because we have a kickass team with no less than 7-8 badass ni99as ... 50K+ test runs with 120+ shambars and 800wkts is some serious fire power ... not much can go wrong with that sort of batting lineup ...

Yes, but because of our good test batting, I believe we actually tend up drawing more matches batting first. We rake up a huge score and then the opposition drops anchor. On the other hand, bowling first gives the best chance of our faster bowlers to take some quick wickets on day 1. In most of the matches we won recently, we did by restricting the opposition in the first innings and we did a better job of restricting when we bowled first Maybe some stats run on this variable(first inning average score by opposition when they batted first VS when they batted second) may prove or disprove this

[Mamu]

N joy while it lasts Not many months before the leaves turn red and then fall off :nervous:

[f.b.m]

Yes, but because of our good test batting, I believe we actually tend up drawing more matches batting first. We rake up a huge score and then the opposition drops anchor. On the other hand, bowling first gives the best chance of our faster bowlers to take some quick wickets on day 1. In most of the matches we won recently, we did by restricting the opposition in the first innings and we did a better job of restricting when we bowled first Maybe some stats run on this variable(first inning average score by opposition when they batted first VS when they batted second) may prove or disprove this

Exactly my point. We seem to be turning draws into wins more than we are turning them into losses. Then again, I'm not sure about the stats on this. And the point on reverse swing was that it almost completely removes the factor of time. Its as relevant on the 1st day as it is on the 5th.