Bumper Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 I decided to scrutinize many supposedly great batsmen (of present and past) based on the criteria Bublu applied for Sehwag. And I have concluded based on these cricinfo stats that all batsmen are FTBs. When i pulled the averages of the below batsmen they all came a cropper in at least two of their bogey countries. Format: Batsman, Bogey Country-1 (Avg), Bogey Country-2 (Avg),... Sehwag - NZ (20), SAF (25), Eng (39) Dravid - SAF (29), SL (33) Lara - Ind (33), NZ (36), Aus (42) Tendulkar - Zim (40), Pak (40) Ponting - Ind (26), Zim (31), Eng (42) Kallis - Eng (29), SL (35), BD (31) Hayden - Eng (34), NZ (28), SAF (35) Gilchrist - Ind (28), UAE (25) Steve Waugh - NZ (35), SL (16) Inzamam - Aus (30), SAF (32), UAE (25) Sobers - NZ (15), Pak (32) Heck who says all these FTBs are great ? Actually i did not bother to explore other batsmen, because there is enough evidence already to suggest that pretty much all batsmen are FTBs.:--D
DomainK Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 Shows that if you are bent on finding weak links in careers of some of the best, you will end up finding some.
saneindian Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 Thanks Bumper. Now, looking at that list, a question needs to be asked. What is worse, having a mid 30s average in "tough batting conditions" (SA, Aus, NZ, Eng etc) or a mid 30-s average on "batting paradises" (Ind, SL, Pak, UAE etc)?
gaurav92 Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 Great work Bumps, now I am eager to know the reply :--D
Asoka Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 Damn there is just too many instances so I wont bother but can anyone Identify this batsman who has the following avgs IN those 4 countries :D England 44.88 New Zealand 40.25 Pakistan 37.43 South Africa 37.73 VVS
Malcolm Merlyn Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 I decided to scrutinize many supposedly great batsmen (of present and past) based on the criteria Bublu applied for Sehwag. And I have concluded based on these cricinfo stats that all batsmen are FTBs. When i pulled the averages of the below batsmen they all came a cropper in at least two of their bogey countries. Format: Batsman, Bogey Country-1 (Avg), Bogey Country-2 (Avg),... Sehwag - NZ (20), SAF (25), Eng (39) Dravid - SAF (29), SL (33) Lara - Ind (33), NZ (36), Aus (42) Tendulkar - Zim (40), Pak (40) Ponting - Ind (26), Zim (31), Eng (42) Kallis - Eng (29), SL (35), BD (31) Hayden - Eng (34), NZ (28), SAF (35) Gilchrist - Ind (28), UAE (25) Steve Waugh - NZ (35), SL (16) Inzamam - Aus (30), SAF (32), UAE (25) Sobers - NZ (15), Pak (32) Heck who says all these FTBs are great ? Actually i did not bother to explore other batsmen, because there is enough evidence already to suggest that pretty much all batsmen are FTBs.:--D Tendulkar avgs a minimum of 40 anywhere.Which is more than decent avg.He played only 2 tests in Zim.So he is the mosst consistent one.
Bumper Posted January 10, 2011 Author Posted January 10, 2011 Thanks Bumper. Now, looking at that list, a question needs to be asked. What is worse, having a mid 30s average in "tough batting conditions" (SA, Aus, NZ, Eng etc) or a mid 30-s average on "batting paradises" (Ind, SL, Pak, UAE etc)? What is worse ? There is no answer to these questions. Its all left to an individual's imagination and interpretation. IMHO, too much is being made of outside Asia pitches. Adelaide and Sydney wickets are pattas even on days 4 and 5. Its significantly harder to score runs in India on day 5. I have seen many batsmen struggle in Bangladesh against Mortaza in overcast conditions, against Mendis & Murali at Galle. It is a combination of conditions and bowling attack that makes batting difficult. Not the grounds inside or outside Asia. Infact that is a stereo type that has been hammered into many of us. FWIW, here are a few points i want to make on this subject: 1) While averages are certainly a good indicator of a batsman's worth, some players such as Veeru, Gilchrist or Viv are worth a lot more to their teams than their averages show. These guys score so quickly & turn the game on its head in a matter of an hour. Sehwag's 87 in Chennai is a case in point. India had no business chasing down 387 on a day 5 chennai pitch. Veeru put us in that position. Ian Chappell used to say that opponent captains were always wary of Viv in the dressing room when they thought of declaring. The "Viv" effect made them bat longer than they would otherwise. We already saw the "Veeru" effect on Smithy last week. Opponent captains are always worried about a blinder from Sehwag (such as his 87 vs Eng in Chennai that saw us chase down a world record total). IMO, as well as our batsmen played at Cape Town, I think we were able to comfortably draw the last test because of "Veeru" effect. 2) Sehwag is an opener. Its hard enough to find openers in history who average 50+ -- if you exclude the mickey mouse era (pre 60s), I expect a dozen or less opening batsmen in the 50+ list. And it is almost impossible to find an opener who scores at an ODI clip (SR: 80) while averaging 50+. Thats what Sehwag has done. He is a trend setter, if you will, a bench mark for aggressive opening batsmen, in the years to come. Dont judge him by a couple of failures. His style of play is not one that optimizes averages. He is not the one to slow down to get a 100, this is a guy who hit a six to bring up his 300. He is a maniac. Stop judging him by his averages. 3) All batsmen have had bogey countries. Just that people dont bother subjecting them to the kinda rectal scan Veeru is subjected to. This is already brought up by the OP. 4) It amuses me when the same people who slice & dice modern player's stats, accept stats of the yore, as some kinda a pristine measure of a batsman's greatness. Case in point is Sunny Gavaskar. A great batsman, no doubt. But often i have heard people say that Gavaskar averaged 50+ against the WI pace quartet. Oh really ? Have you bothered to check if this is true or not ? No I am not trying to poke holes in Mr. Gavaskar's awesome CV. Merely pointing out the irony here. Gavaskar piled up a lot of runs against WI till 1979, when he did not face the Roberts, Holding, Garner, Marshall combo. In games when he faced at least two of these four bowlers his average drops to 41 (which is largely boosted by that one inninngs of 236*). Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 0 filtered 11 20 2 745 236* 41.38 3 1 3 Point is that, if you start rectal scanning players, you can make every batsman look ordinary.
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