The last group game: Ind vs WI pre-match talk

[boom_boom]

I hope India wins...And that it is closely contested nail biter of a contest with India chasing ...

[anbuchelvan]

Ashwin or rather no tamil player will play as long as Mr.Doomed is captain unless he was paid substantially.

[Sachin=GOD]

I don't know why people want Pathan out of the squad based on the last match. Even though he got out prematurely against Holland, he did manage to clear the boundary in the little time he spent at the crease. It's not his fault Dhoni pushed him out prematurely and made him take on a role he is not familiar with. That's also precisely why Virat Kohli also didn't do well when he was pushed lower down the order, but no one seems to be having an issue with Kohli. I don't care for Ravi Shastri but he made some very good points on Times Now yesterday. He suggested including Raina and Ashwin in the squad, with the former replacing Virat, not Pathan. The thing with Yusuf is that he's a gamble, but whenever he's been sent out in dire situations, he's mostly always done well for our team. He said Raina should come in place of Kohli because Raina is a guy who's comfortable batting in any position as compared to Virat... and I agree with him. His position can be tinkered around with a bit unlike Kohli's, but in imo Pathan needs to remain in our team. He's been a proven match winner on his day.

The thing with Yusf is that he will play a match winning innings once in a blue moon and in all the other matches, he will more often than not score very few runs - at least thats been the case with him till now. With Raina you've got a proven performer who has performed exceptionally well lower down the order and is much more reliable and consistent than Pathan. Our batting line up is in very good form so there won't be very many situations where Pathan-the game changer will come into play. What we need right now is a good finisher and on Indian pitches, I don't see how Pathan is better than Raina for that particular role.

[pinkfreud]

The thing with Yusf is that he will play a match winning innings once in a blue moon and in all the other matches' date=' he will more often than not score very few runs - at least thats been the case with him till now. With Raina you've got a proven performer who has performed exceptionally well lower down the order and is much more reliable and consistent than Pathan. Our batting line up is in very good form so there won't be very many situations where Pathan-the game changer will come into play. What we need right now is a good finisher and on Indian pitches, I don't see how Pathan is better than Raina for that particular role.[/quote'] My point is that why can't Raina and Pathan both be in the playing XI? Raina doesn't have to be in the team solely through replacing Pathan. Like I said, Raina is more flexible than Kohli as far as the batting position goes. He can play in the middle, as well as in Kohli's present position. And you can't oust Pathan just by saying that our batting order is good and can tide us through. We all saw what happened with that batting collapse. If you are assuming that Pathan will falter more than not, then you also have to acknowledge the possibility that Pathan could have changed things in our favour had he been retained at #7.

[Sachin=GOD]

My point is that why can't Raina and Pathan both be in the playing XI? Raina doesn't have to be in the team solely through replacing Pathan. Like I said, Raina is more flexible than Kohli as far as the batting position goes. He can play in the middle, as well as in Kohli's present position. And you can't oust Pathan just by saying that our batting order is good and can tide us through. We all saw what happened with that batting collapse. If you are assuming that Pathan will falter more than not, then you also have to acknowledge the possibility that Pathan could have changed things in our favour had he been retained at #7.

But Kohli has been probably our most in-form batsman in the last one year. How is it justified that he be dropped while Pathan keeps his place in the side.

[spectre]

In the same way, when Raina got dropped for Kohli and Pathan

But Kohli has been probably our most in-form batsman in the last one year. How is it justified that he be dropped while Pathan keeps his place in the side.

[pinkfreud]

But Kohli has been probably our most in-form batsman in the last one year. How is it justified that he be dropped while Pathan keeps his place in the side.

Yes he has, but the thing with Kohli is that he needs to either be in the #3 or #4 spot to set himself in; so in that sense, he's not flexible. Raina has played himself in both at the top, in the middle, and even as a finisher. If Dhoni wants to tinker with the batting in certain situations, then Raina would be a handy guy to fall back on. Kohli doesn't seem to be very comfortable when he's uprooted from his #4 spot.

In the same way' date=' when Raina got dropped for Kohli and Pathan[/quote'] True.

[Sachin2210]

Ashwin should’ve played in place of Chawla in previous matches. I am sure he’d have done better.

[zen]

Good post ! But frankly, the Indian players don't look THAT motivated....was reading reports of many players taking it easy and many even taking time to visit their families..... and optional practice on Tuesday... You can bash me all you like, but all this doesn't look like the behavior of a highly motivated team:nono:, especially after a loss ! I mean, you don't take a Holiday and go to visit your family in the middle of a WAR, do you ?

I think you are being a bit harsh there as it's not a bad idea to take your mind of cricket for a few days, esp. after a loss. The guys have played 5 games in the tourney so even though a slight practice could help but it is over-rated, esp. when you want the key players to be mentally fresh (which is what is more important at this level). Therefore, there is no big deal in taking a few days off from cricket in a long tourney like this one .... Remember this is not 80s, where you didn't play that much cricket and therefore needed to fine tune a lot more before games.

[Sachin=GOD]

In the same way' date=' when Raina got dropped for Kohli and Pathan[/quote'] I'm not saying that Raina should'nt be in the team. I'm simply saying that he should replace Yusuf in the team, not Kohli. Raina deserves his place.

[spectre]

At the moment..Kohli is the odd one out. The team mgmt doesn't have the confidence in him to play him up the order, incase of a good start by top 3. And he cant get quick runs down the order, in slog overs. Also, he hasn't done much apart from that easy supporting innings against bangles.

I'm not saying that Raina should'nt be in the team. I'm simply saying that he should replace Yusuf in the team' date=' not Kohli. Raina deserves his place.[/quote']

[Sachin=GOD]

At the moment..Kohli is the odd one out. The team mgmt doesn't have the confidence in him to play him up the order, incase of a good start by top 3. And he cant get quick runs down the order, in slog overs. Also, he hasn't done much apart from that easy supporting innings against bangles.

Raina is the most effective when he bats at no 6 or 7, I've shown stats for that plenty of times, he must bat lower down the order only and for that he has to replace someone who bats lower down the order i.e. Yusuf. Kohli has been our most in form batsman in the last one year and if you're talking about what has he done except that "supporting innings" against Bangladesh, I ask you what has Yusuf Pathan done in this WC till now to guarantee a place in the side? People keep talking about him being our "insurance policy" in case of a batting collapse, but they forget to see the simple fact that apart from playing that one "insurance policy" innings, Yusf pretty much stays silent with the bat for long stretches.

[pinkfreud]

@Sachin=GOD: I think you're being a bit harsh here. Yusuf hasn't even got a credible opportunity in the WC; he's been pushed up twice, and clearly that was never the way to go. Kohli would of course have more opportunities to prove his mettle considering he bats up the order. Who's to say that Yusuf possibly wouldn't have performed against Bangladesh either if we'd lost a couple of wickets? Again, you've not addressed the point about Kohli's inability to bat outside his comfort zone. The same can be said about Pathan, but in his case, it doesn't sting as much as it does when someone who bats up there also collapses in a dire situation. The strategy of replacing Kohli with Raina is beneficial in one more way: you get yet another part time spinner option, which you wouldn't have got in any case by removing Pathan from the playing XI. Also, Pathan has a better ER in ODIs than Raina (he did before the WC, not sure about now).. why replace him when you can have them both? I personally thought our batting unit was pretty ill formed from the very outset, because Dhoni is batting too low down the order. He's done his best at #4 I think, but in a team of overachievers, I guess he had to accommodate someone in that position. It's very evident that Dhoni is ill at ease way down there. My preference is to have Raina replacing Kohli, with Raina filling in the spot Dhoni was occupying till now and Dhoni moving higher up. That would be ideal and even better if it did work out for us.

[zen]

It would be stupid to drop Yusuf (or any of the batsmen) after investing so heavily in them. They have gone through the period of grinding themselves out and are expected to deliver goods from now on. One way to play Raina iagainst WI is if we want to see how the batting order does w/o Tendulkar Ashwin has been portrayed as some kind of a savior (the knight that would come on a horse to alleviate our problems) but we must remember that from the overall quality perspective, Ashwin isn't far ahead of the the rest of the spinners. What probably works for him is that he looks to pick up wkts and is said to be good under pressure So of us are happy to press the panic button at even the hint of pressure and see the grass greener on the other side, in this case, the bench looking greener Our spinners haven't looked penetrative enough, while the pacers have been leaking runs. May be it is not a bad idea to look for wkts from pacers and look to slow things down through spinners. May be get Zak and Sree going for wkts, probably have Munaf as a backup and pick one of Bhajji and Ashwin, w/ Yuvi and Pathan bowling spin as well. And if the surface has something in for spinners then play 2 spinners. Ideally, we need 3 seamers and 3 spinners (including part timers) to bowl 50 overs so the goal should be to have 6 bowlers to bowl 50 overs. This way the captain and the bowlers are not under pressure to complete 10 overs. Which ever combination is bowling well can bowl most of the overs. What's doing Ind is that the wkts aren't coming easily and the captain is often pressed to sort out the bowling options (esp. w/ 2 seamers)

[spectre]

Raina aint just a slogger, he is a proper batsman who also has the ability to build an innings. Go revisit Asia cup and his NZ exploits when he batted up the order. And Dhoni can do what Kohli does at the moment. Already you got too many consolidators at the top order who are in good form and giving great starts. You need some firepower in the lower middle order to finish an innings or chase big targets successfully. So Kohli has no place in the team, at the moment.

Raina is the most effective when he bats at no 6 or 7' date=' I've shown stats for that plenty of times, he must bat lower down the order only and for that he has to replace someone who bats lower down the order i.e. Yusuf. Kohli has been our most in form batsman in the last one year and if you're talking about what has he done except that "supporting innings" against Bangladesh, I ask you what has Yusuf Pathan done in this WC till now to guarantee a place in the side? People keep talking about him being our "insurance policy" in case of a batting collapse, but they forget to see the simple fact that apart from playing that one "insurance policy" innings, Yusf pretty much stays silent with the bat for long stretches.[/quote']

[Sachin=GOD]

Raina aint just a slogger, he is a proper batsman who also has the ability to build an innings. Go revisit Asia cup and his NZ exploits when he batted up the order. And Dhoni can do what Kohli does at the moment. Already you got too many consolidators at the top order who are in good form and giving great starts. You need some firepower in the lower middle order to finish an innings or chase big targets successfully. So Kohli has no place in the team, at the moment.

Seeing Dhoni's current form do you really think he can do the job that Kohli does?? Dhoni is no longer the same batsman he was a few years ago. I'd much rather have a consistent Kohli in the team rather than Yusuf, who performs once in a blue moon. Raina, no doubt just has to be in the team, the question is who does he replace - do you want some stability in the middle order (Kohli) or some more firepower at the end (Yusuf) - I'd like stability because both against Eng and SA we saw the team getting less runs than it should've simply because too many batsmen tried too many extravagant shots and got out so I would like some stability in the form of Kohli.

[ghost]

Lot's of time to vote :asleep:

Thats right... will give you guys the correct info a day or 2 before the match:winky:

[Serani]

I never understood why Sammy became the WI captain either. I hadn't even heard of him till that announcement was out- thought Dwayne Bravo would step in after Gayle.

Dwayne Bravo didnt sign a contract with the WICB how could they make him captain?

[ghost]

I think you are being a bit harsh there as it's not a bad idea to take your mind of cricket for a few days, esp. after a loss. The guys have played 5 games in the tourney so even though a slight practice could help but it is over-rated, esp. when you want the key players to be mentally fresh (which is what is more important at this level). Therefore, there is no big deal in taking a few days off from cricket in a long tourney like this one .... Remember this is not 80s, where you didn't play that much cricket and therefore needed to fine tune a lot more before games.

It certainly could.... so what if they've played 5 games ; I don't see any lessons being learnt. They could :- 1. Practice bowling yorkers 2. Practice tackling yorkers 3. Practice working the ball to take singles instead of trying to smash sixes off every ball 4. Visit the gym or play soccer to bulid-up their stamina, especially skinny Nehra; even the batsmen.... one commentator correctly pointed out that guys like Sehwag and Tendulkar get out later in their innings due to tired shoulders rather than anything else 5. Practice fielding.... especially catching and throwing at the stumps. Anything else you can think of.....

[kruiser]

How about Gambhir Out - Raina In ?