Cricinfo out to defame Sachin..

[King]

Let's get it straight whether cricinfo defames Tendulkar or not. These days Tendulkar does not want to get out and score as many as possible when the opportunity is there. That seems to be the bottom line. Whether that line hurts the Indian team or not it doesn't seem to matter. IMO Tendulkar has his eyes set on the numbers. A lot of past greats have been through this line. In fact the old timers always played for the numbers hence the draws were predominant those days. Nothing wrong with it as long as it doesn't hurt the Indian team fortunes. I have seen this ultra defensive batting of Tendulkar cost games for us before hence doesn’t like his new number chasing approach. I have to say these days when he bats my eye is usually not on the TV. I don't rush to the telly when he is at the crease. I lack that motivation and the zeal to watch him. I’m quite happy to see him score runs in plenty but I won’t be bothered watching him bat. It’s not worth it as a cricket fan.

[Predator_05]

What annoys me is the way he seems to be in a state of perpetual denial - lashing out at every journalist who questions his batting approach. He continually stresses that he is playing his "natural game" and that people are getting carried away even though his performances on the pitch indicate that he is doing anything but.

[Ram]

I agree with Ravi when he says that nowadays it isnt fun to watch Sachin bat. As much as I defend him and his place in the team , rarely do I fall over myself to see him bat off late. Its obvious that his game has changed for good. He isnt the best batsman in the world anymore ( and maybe not even in the team). But the guy is a genius. Even with reduced skill levels and form , he can still conjure up consistent runs. Whether he is able to do that against quality opposition in testing times is the critical question everybody ( including myself) is searching the answer for . My only point is -- He is still good enough to be in the team. I dont see any Indian batsman ( barring Rahul ) who has a better technique than him interms of handling different types of bowling in different conditions. Trust me , If Sachin and Rahul are not in the team , the batting will fall like nine pins against quality bowling in helpful conditions. He is more consistent than most and will score runs , invariably. Only the context of those runs seems to be in question ( eg - two centuries in flat trakcs against BD). The English tour will provide answers to these questions. I hope.

[King]

I have no problems with Tendulkar in the team. He is too good to be left out. His 2 centuries are testimony to his run making ability whatever the fashion in which he scored runs. Hundreds are 100s nevertheless. They were chance less hundreds but the regular "Tendulkar" standard was missing from those hundreds. Tendulkar is a victim of his own high standards. I reckon he will still get runs but his magic has waned away. In about 12-15 years time none will be asking how did he get these runs. Only us folks that has followed Tendulkar's career will know it. The then younger generation will not want to know anything about our rants.

[Predator_05]

The good to be left out argument holds no water anymore. He has become a liability since the tennis elbow injury and this is shown by the pitiful averages he has against quality opposition. Quoting CC's post from the other thread;

People need to get one thing straight- Sachin's record since 2004 minus the minnows (BD/ZIM): mat/inn :15/24 no : 1 t.runs: 789 ave : 34.30 hs : 109 c : 1 f : 5 This is his record minus bangladesh/zimbabwe.

An average of 34 isn't consistent in Test cricket by ANY measure, nor does it indicate that Tendulkar is capable of scoring against quality opposition in testing times. He needs good batting conditions and can only score off mediocre bowling attacks now, as good bowlers are able to breach his defences more often than not. Asif, Shoaib, Flintoff, Pollock and Ntini have had his number in recent times. I would back the likes of Rohit Sharma (among others in FC cricket) to average 34 after 15 test matches. They are good enough to score at that rate, and with them it's easier to tolerate their shortcomings because they are young, inexperienced and will improve as their careers progress. Tendulkar's career on the other hand, is in a state of terminal decline and he doesn't offer India anything in the long-term.

[King]

You will allow someone that has scored over 10000 runs in both forms of cricket a little bit of a leeway Predator. If you go by recent form he is not as worse as you make it out to be. Tendulkar didn't look bad in the South Africa series. If I remember well he was the second highest run getter in that series for India. If you reckon Ganguly deserves a chance then Tendulkar does too. How come you argue for Ganguly's inclusion but not Tendulkar's?

[Predator_05]

You will allow someone that has scored over 10000 runs in both forms of cricket a little bit of a leeway Predator. If you go by recent form he is not as worse as you make it out to be. Tendulkar didn't look bad in the South Africa series. If I remember well he was the second highest run getter in that series for India. If you reckon Ganguly deserves a chance then Tendulkar does too. How come you argue for Ganguly's inclusion but not Tendulkar's?

The way the runs were scored. Ganguly looked at ease on most occasions and scored a very brisk pace throughout that series. He came out and played his shots every time. Tendulkar was having a good series up until that third test when he played that cringeworthy knock in the 2nd innings when India were in a position of strength and desperately needed him to fire.

[King]

You would now want to drop Tendulkar because he scored slowly against Bangladesh? I know he screwed up the third test single handedly but he had enough assistance from Rahul Dravid too. Don't you reckon Rahul Dravid should be dropped too? BTW Tendulkar has scored enough runs recently in test cricket to hold his spot. I'm not a big fan watching him anymore but it makes no sense to me to drop him just because he batted slowly. He has scored couple of hundreds in the last two innings and had few fifties against South Africa in testing conditions. I don't reckon he is a match winner for India but still is good enough to play for India.

[Ram]

I don't reckon he is a match winner for India but still is good enough to play for India.

Exactly..

[Predator_05]

You would now want to drop Tendulkar because he scored slowly against Bangladesh? I know he screwed up the third test single handedly but he had enough assistance from Rahul Dravid too. Don't you reckon Rahul Dravid should be dropped too? BTW Tendulkar has scored enough runs recently in test cricket to hold his spot.

That was Dravid's worst series since the '04 IND-AUS series. So bearing that in mind, ONE solitary failure from him isn't going to make me budge, but if he was averaging a paltry 34 from 15 tests (ie; when failure becomes a recurring trend) then it definitely will.

[King]

Tendulkar averaged 35 in the first few years after his debut too but they didn't drop him from the test team and you know why. That is the same reason why he is being persisted with.

[Predator_05]

Tendulkar averaged 35 in the first few years after his debut too but they didn't drop him from the test team and you know why. That is the same reason why he is being persisted with.

What kind of weird argument is that ? Yeah, if an 17 year old is averaging 35 in Test cricket - i'd definitely stick with him no matter what - as he would be a DEVELOPING player and is therefore, bound to become BETTER. But Tendulkar has gradually become WORSE since the tennis elbow injury, and why should some promising player from FC (who could average the same after 15 matches) have to sit out so that Tendulkar can play ? The guy is old, past his peak now and he is blocking young talent from coming in.

[Ram]

Tendulkar averaged 35 in the first few years after his debut too but they didn't drop him from the test team and you know why. That is the same reason why he is being persisted with.

yea.. i dont think we can quite justify sachin's inclusion anymore saying that - he has got talent which needs to be groomed.. He HAS to perform on the pitch..

[King]

That isn’t weird Pred, that's a fact. The very reason he is not shafted from the test team because he is Tendulkar. He has demonstrated skills that are stuff of legends. They carry on with him hoping he reproduces the same glory. BTW Ganguly looked much worse before his comeback. Now don't you think he would not have ended up as the best batsman in the Saffie tour if they didn't persist with him? I'm not going to buy your 15 test statistics. It is like saying I'll take one of your leg away from ya but you still have to run the 100 meters in 10 seconds theory. Why do you take the worst sample? Why don't you take 5 tests (3 against Saffies and 2 against Bangladesh) as a sample? You don't want to consider statistics from say about 5-7 year ago but you won't consider statistics for just the last 6 months either? Take South Africa (testing conditions and good opponent) and Bangladesh tour as that indicates the recent form. Tendulkar ended up 2nd and 1st top scorer in these tours respectively. I don't see a reason for dropping him from the test side based on these stats. I do agree he is not a match winner but is good enough to be in this team. If he were playing for Australia he would have been pretty unsure about his future for sure. At this point in time only Australia can afford to drop one like Tendulkar if he was playing for them.

[Predator_05]

That isn’t weird Pred' date=' that's a fact. The very reason he is not shafted from the test team because he is Tendulkar. He has demonstrated skills that are stuff of legends. They carry on with him hoping he reproduces the same glory. [/quote'] Exactly. THAT makes sense. He is in the team on reputation and nothing more.

BTW Ganguly looked much worse before his comeback. Now don't you think he would not have ended up as the best batsman in the Saffie tour if they didn't persist with him?

But they didn't persist with Ganguly ? He was rightfully ditched and he came back a better player. He has earned his place in the XI, and Tendulkar should do the same.

I'm not going to buy your 15 test statistics. It is like saying I'll take one of your leg away from ya but you still have to run the 100 meters in 10 seconds theory. Why do you take the worst sample? Why don't you take 5 tests (3 against Saffies and 2 against Bangladesh) as a sample? You don't want to consider statistics from say about 5-7 year ago but you won't consider statistics for just the last 6 months either?

I used the 15 test sample to prove that he hasn't scored much against quality opposition for a little over 2 seasons now. That is a fact. The trend shows that he is no longer capable of scoring big against decent bowling attacks. You already know that cheap runs against Banglastan count for absolutely nothing in my book.

[Bumper]

The only argument for playing Tendulkar at this point, that has some merit, is that his experience will prove helpful in winning games that may be lost or squandered away, playing youth. So even if he fails frequently he must produce that one or two magical/BIG innings once in a while (that junior players can never manage to), that only he is capable of. If all Tendu does is manage an average of 35 boosted by cheap runs against Bangladesh & Zimbabwe and plays no better than any of our juniors, he is no good for this team. We are wasting our time persisting with him. I'll give him one last chance against England & see what he does. I dont care what he averages vs England. He must play an influential knock or two that will help us win/save a test. If he manages that he gets a longer rope. Otherwise thanks for the great memories, adios Tendulkar

[King Tendulkar]

Some stupid posts. Lets not forget he was carrying an injury and then had it operated on. This no doubt affected his form. But let this not get in the way of Sachin bashing. Give this genius and legend a break. Lets ignore the fact he was 2nd top scorer in our penultimate test series and top scorer in our last test series!

[Mandrake]

The Eng series should be the thing for Sachin....I could care less about his performances against teams like BD....even though the way he got to his centuries does not inspire any confidence in me that he has really turned it around as far as batting form goes.Sachin needs to score healthily against quality bowling attacks to justify his place in the test team.And I totally agree with Pred about how our guys repeatedly stress on how they are still playing their natural game. Both Ganguly and Sachin never tire on pointing to their past records and harping that they have got nothing to prove to anyone.....I just wish that this these knocks against BD have given much needed batting practice to Sachin as he's gonna need it very much against the stronger teams.

[dial_100]

I dont understand one thing, the guy played 17 years in the middle. He should know his game better or some 1 like us who sit on the periphery and shout for everything and anything. Why even our brains go to that level yaar. 26000 runs are way more than a proof for us to even open our #$#$. So lets see how he does in Eng. Yaar Sehwag managed to stay in the team for 2 years with that pathetic avg of 28-30 as an opener. Our real downfall started because him. In the days of Gangs and SRT, they were both averaging healthy 44+. He is gone from the team after 2 years where as SRT has been scoring runs. His slow scoring rate doesnt matter as much in the test. If he manages to score runs better than remaining 3 of the 6 batsman in the team then I am happy with his selection. He should score in top 3 of the team in every tour. Occassional failures will be excused. OR else find a replacement for him

[Predator_05]

Yaar Sehwag managed to stay in the team for 2 years with that pathetic avg of 28-30 as an opener. Our real downfall started because him. In the days of Gangs and SRT' date=' they were both averaging healthy 44+. He is gone from the team after 2 years where as SRT has been scoring runs. His slow scoring rate doesnt matter as much in the test. [/quote'] What are you talking about ? ODI's ? You DO KNOW that it was skipper Saurav Ganguly who demoted himself down the order on HIS OWN accord so that Sehwag could open on a permanent basis ?