prasadiyer Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Its this jokers abuse of vulnerable people's faith thats pissing me off. Yea he helped a lot of people and good on him for doing that. But couldn't he do just that without claiming he was a reincarnation of god, being a miracle worker and all that BS? That vibhuti production stuff was a long long time ago, maybe 30 years ago. It is amazing how these things never get forgotten, even after all the charitable works that came later. I am no believer in Sai Baba. But if the only fraudulent thing he did was call himself God and perform magic tricks, then it's a fair trade to get all those good works and character-building in return. These are really small, petty moral failings compared to those huge corruption scandals that occur regularly in India. Heck, even tax dodging looks worse than seeming to produce vibhuti out of thin air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THX_1138 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Whether he, or any other members of his organization claimed divinity or not makes no difference to the ultimate outcome of this well-orchestrated money spinning operation – they still duped people and that is the end of that. I don’t understand your line of argument at all. You’re picking and choosing isolated acts of good nature that his organization performed and using that as a defense mechanism against all of the combined atrocities. Do you know that Hamas is the single biggest donor of charity in the West bank and Gaza strip? And that during the Kashmir earthquake, the mujahideen delivered more relief to the people than the Pakistani army did? Does all of this simply mask the otherwise ghastly nature of these outfits? dude what is with the sweeping generalization?? i am curious about what you said about him having a debilitating effect on society: i want you to clarify if that is your opinion of his claims to divinity or his social service. i.e. do you feel his social service fosters a society of dependence that is harmful at the day's end? or is it his claims to being a god that are so aggravating that you feel the rest of his actions are insignificant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retard Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 very true,not only me rest of india rates him as daddy of frauds, pushing people to believe in his parody illusions. But i would like his social work regarding Water supply projects that was amazing Anyways,My condolences to Satya sai baba. Note: God is Immortal , if we wanna rate someone as "GOD" then it should be freedom fighters who sacrificed there lives in order to provide better life,freedom & wisdom for 1.2 billion people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THX_1138 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Whether he, or any other members of his organization claimed divinity or not makes no difference to the ultimate outcome of this well-orchestrated money spinning operation – they still duped people and that is the end of that. I don’t understand your line of argument at all. You’re picking and choosing isolated acts of good nature that his organization performed and using that as a defense mechanism against all of the combined atrocities. Do you know that Hamas is the single biggest donor of charity in the West bank and Gaza strip? And that during the Kashmir earthquake, the mujahideen delivered more relief to the people than the Pakistani army did? Does all of this simply mask the otherwise ghastly nature of these outfits? well aware of both facts, and also quite aware that one of the reason why jamat ul dawa is quite powerful and enjoys public support is because they provide a structure and infrastructure to the local population that the pakistani government does not. but that is more an indictment of the pakistani government rather than a feather in the cap of JUD. how either of those organizations can be compared to sai baba is however eluding me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THX_1138 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 very true,not only me rest of india rates him as daddy of frauds, pushing people to believe in his parody illusions. But i would like his social work regarding Water supply projects that was amazing Anyways,My condolences to Satya sai baba. Note: God is Immortal , if we wanna rate someone as "GOD" then it should be freedom fighters who sacrificed there lives in order to provide better life,freedom & wisdom for 1.2 billion people. how about no gods. period. we are all dudes and dudettes. why elevate anyone at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THX_1138 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 That vibhuti production stuff was a long long time ago, maybe 30 years ago. It is amazing how these things never get forgotten, even after all the charitable works that came later. I am no believer in Sai Baba. But if the only fraudulent thing he did was call himself God and perform magic tricks, then it's a fair trade to get all those good works and character-building in return. These are really small, petty moral failings compared to those huge corruption scandals that occur regularly in India. Heck, even tax dodging looks worse than seeming to produce vibhuti out of thin air. you shut your mouth. that is not tax dodging, that is 'job creation'. /sarah palin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricket Tragic Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Yes' date=' [b']the same big 4 audit firms that gave those junk mortgages and credit default swaps AAA ratings and literally bought the entire financial world to the knees in 2008?? :hysterical: Stay away from topics that you don't have a clue about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunner Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I can say with absolute and unequivocal certainty that he, and people like him, have had a debilitating impact on society. There’s nothing worse than slaving people with circus gimmicks, false promises and promised solace. You only weaken them further and make them more susceptible to suffering and hardship. For those who think Sai baba, or any other self-anointed Godmen like him enriched their life, they couldn’t be more wrong. What they don’t realize is that they have signed up for a lifetime of emotional and intellectual slavery and sacrificed the process of independent thought and investigation, FOREVER. When one Sai Baba comes and goes, there are dozens of them waiting in the pipeline, waiting to take over this already mentally conditioned populace. And Annatha, i dont know for how long you lived in T.N, but if you had been living there during the 90s, surely, the names like ‘Swami’ Premananda and more recently, ‘Swami’ Nityananda (yes, the dude who was caught getting a.. ermm.. fellatio, from a Tamizh Actress..) All of these guys were bonafide, unadulterated crooks. There was nothing even remotely Godly about these people. I can understand if these guys were simply in it for the money, but almost all of these specimens have a horrific record of pedophilia, rape, sexual abuse, even murder behind them. Where do you think people like these get their inspiration from? I agree with your larger point that these kind of people create a sort of dependancy for the larger populace. I also agree that it is probably not the best thing. However that said, I also think you are expecting a level of intellect from the world as it is today which you are not likely to get. They will probably need this sort of dependancy for sometime to come unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Its a free country and not governed by specific religious laws. then why are some people worked up on Sai Baba calling himself god? :dontknow: He is entitled to practise his own religion and if he is the god in it, then so be it. My issues with Sai baba are not his religious proclamations, but that he used these proclamations to convince LOTS of people that he is divine and extract money out of them. As Ram said, such people would only inspire more and more such godmen to emerge fooling the public using their own innovative ways. Sadly, there will always be bakras to fall into their trap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Stay away from topics that you don't have a clue about. I would love his highness, the double doctorate in accounting to enlighten me please, on this topic that I have no clue about, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 well aware of both facts, and also quite aware that one of the reason why jamat ul dawa is quite powerful and enjoys public support is because they provide a structure and infrastructure to the local population that the pakistani government does not. but that is more an indictment of the pakistani government rather than a feather in the cap of JUD. how either of those organizations can be compared to sai baba is however eluding me. I am not saying they're comparable, they're obviously not. I bought out these examples merely to highlight the glaring hole in your central argument which is - 'Look at all the good deeds Sai Baba has done. Lets balance that versus the harm you think he may caused and judge his legacy based on that..'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triam Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 quite right. but that approach seems rather misplaced when the crimes in question are not as egregious as homicide or rape. or is he accused of those too? Homicides and rapes, maybe, nothing was ever proved but 6 people were killed in 1993 in Sai baba's bedroom, and there are reports in the guardian , daily telegraph etc about his sexual escapades and molestation charges. again he was never convicted, but with his connections it would be a miracle if the case ever reached the courts. Agreeably, from the 90's onwards nothing untoward of him came in the news (but he was above 70 years old anyways). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricketlover Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 so much for the poster who told me that this guy was loved by ever indian!! Seems he's not that loved by every Indian and priolly Tendulkar beats him in those stakes :p Dunno much abt him apart from what ive read in this thread but as a total neutral this is what I make of the guy: Seems like a Robin Hood type of guy who takes money from the rich and distributes it among the poor and also keeps his share! Now depending on which way you look at it, this could be good or bad. Definitely helps a lot of poor people But seems to con a lot of unassuming well off people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THX_1138 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Homicides and rapes' date= maybe, nothing was ever proved but 6 people were killed in 1993 in Sai baba's bedroom, and there are reports in the guardian , daily telegraph etc about his sexual escapades and molestation charges. again he was never convicted, but with his connections it would be a miracle if the case ever reached the courts. Agreeably, from the 90's onwards nothing untoward of him came in the news (but he was above 70 years old anyways). i did not know that there were deaths... i did know about accusations of sexual misconduct, but molestation charges are news to me. nevertheless, it would be impossible to know the truth, now or even then. he has considerable clout with some of the most powerful big wigs, he would have been insulated from anything, if anything had come of it. but its convenient to say that now is it not? if an accusation is made against a public figure and it turns out to be nothing, why are we quick to simply state that the matter has been brushed under the rug? there is the remarkable possibility that its a false claim? do you recall the duke lacrosse team in the early 2000s and the false accusation of rape against them? its hardly comparable, but that instance does come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THX_1138 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 I am not saying they're comparable, they're obviously not. I bought out these examples merely to highlight the glaring hole in your central argument which is - 'Look at all the good deeds Sai Baba has done. Lets balance that versus the harm you think he may caused and judge his legacy based on that..'. you are too quick to judge things. i have no argument. i am merely asking you whether you see his impact on this world to be positive or negative. but never mind, forget about it, i see that you are quite emphatic about the issue and maybe we can discuss this some other time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchemist Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Time to lock this thread. May be we can open Godmen or No Godmen thread. That way it can be free for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterTheVoid Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 That vibhuti production stuff was a long long time ago, maybe 30 years ago. It is amazing how these things never get forgotten, even after all the charitable works that came later. I am no believer in Sai Baba. But if the only fraudulent thing he did was call himself God and perform magic tricks, then it's a fair trade to get all those good works and character-building in return. These are really small, petty moral failings compared to those huge corruption scandals that occur regularly in India. Heck, even tax dodging looks worse than seeming to produce vibhuti out of thin air. So his philanthropy is atonement for his (alleged) pedophilia and fraudulent miracles? :hysterical: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THX_1138 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 So his philanthropy is atonement for his (alleged) pedophilia and fraudulent miracles? :hysterical: well if it is only alleged, there really ought to be no need for retribution. and absolutely no one here as suggested that. the question that i feel everyone has either dodged or answered with a question (as above) is that: can we bundle him with other con men and spinsters considering he used his organization for social works projects rather than for accumulating personal wealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterTheVoid Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 the question that i feel everyone has either dodged or answered with a question (as above) is that: can we bundle him with other con men and spinsters considering he used his organization for social works projects rather than for accumulating personal wealth. Probably not. If you live in one of the dirt poor areas of India he's helped and have no food, no money and basically no hope in life, you take help from wherever it comes. If his work is the only hope for a better life in the cesspit of corruption, I don't really care if he pulled magic dust out of his **** or out of thin air. I'd still take his help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted_User_1 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Why? :) Luxury is not godly? Hmm... I see that you think that a life without luxury is something to laud? No it is not and yes it is. Why do you think the true Sanyasis live a austere life. I am not saying one has to starve, but live modestly. He surely did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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