Neutral umpires and their impact on subcontinental teams

[Mamu]

Pakistan have the best abroad test record in 90s. :bow:

Sir_Retard: I said SERIES. Regarding Tests -- well they win one and promptly go on to lose the next two. Don't forget the prize is for winning the SERIES not Tests. This is like putting one step forward and going back two steps. Now you don't want me to display Paki Test Series Record abroad in the last 25 years -- do you?

[anotherhawkeye]

I for one is very glad about neutral umpires. Indian umpires in India always used to favor foreigners and give the benefit of doubt to them. With neutral umpires, we have a fair chance of winning. That's what the stat in the OP is saying.

[Ultimate_Game]

I for one is very glad about neutral umpires. Indian umpires in India always used to favor foreigners and give the benefit of doubt to them. With neutral umpires' date=' we have a fair chance of winning. That's what the stat in the OP is saying.[/quote'] Well said. Somehow we always suffered from "gora syndrome" - jahaan gori chamdi dekhi uski taraf ho liye. Some of our groundsmen still do that and that's why prepare tracks to suit opposition as soon as Ponting or Smith make even one comment about the pitch.

[Ultimate_Game]

Thought of examining home record of certain teams post neutral umpiring

[bajrang]

Thought of examining home record of certain teams post neutral umpiring

this gonna be good!!

[jairamesh]

everyone knows about absolute bias of umpiring in Pakistan, it's no coincidence that everybody cites playing in pakistan in the 80s-90s, was like playing against 13 men on the field. And Imran Khan introducing neutral umpire, well credit to him, but it was going to happen eventually as the merit of Pakistan winning in Pakistan in 80s-90s came under more and more scrutiny. It's painful excuse for Imran Khan to accept, when someone like Gatting says "we lost because the umpires were playing for the home side", as opposed tiredness, scheduling, injuries etc.

[yadhav500]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPoCY8C2Oc4]MORE RETARDED PAKISTAN UMPIRING - INZI PLUMB LBW "A G A I N"!!!!! - YouTube[/ame] [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V9xnMvgO0A]Funny Gatting Wicket Pak v Eng 1987 Tour - YouTube[/ame]

[Ultimate_Game]

In the 2nd clip against Qadir, the umpire actually raised his finger quicker than Qadir could appeal :haha:

[Utalk]

Imran like he has always overestimated himself and his team thought he could beat West Indies and show the world that he ad his team were really a great team but he had to fight tooth and nail just to draw that series. Look at Imran and Kapil dev bowling avgs in India which show even though he was more experienced and faster than Kapil his record is worse than Kapil dev in India. 28 for Imran and 22 for kapil. But that record changes so dramatically in Pakistan Imran's avg is 22 and Kapil dev's avg is 40.Two factors to consider home umpiring benefiting Imran more in getting wickets against Indian batsmen and Pakistan batsmen again getting benefited by home umpiring in denying Kapil dev his wickets. This all changed in 1989 in Tendulkar debut series when India played in Pakistan but this time under neutral umpiring and guess what the so called great Imran Khan's avg was 38 and Kapil Dev 's Avg was 31. No wonder Pakistan had better test record than India but now it is showing why Pakistan's home record was nothing to ride home about, it was due to Shakoor Ranas and Hyder Alis. Pakistanis who boost their superior ODI record against should look at this stats in neutral venues other than Sharjah is 19 wins each from 1985 till date. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;host=1;host=15;host=16;host=17;host=2;host=23;host=25;host=26;host=29;host=3;host=30;host=4;host=46;host=5;host=8;host=9;opposition=7;orderby=won;team=6;template=results;type=team

Were Pakistani umpiring in India? How would you explain this embarrassing HOME record against Pakistan. In Pakistan umpires were cheats, In sharjah they were bought and In India they were.........fill in the blanks.....? filtered 1983-2005 21 15 6 0 0 2.50 15 wins in 21 in India with your own umpires proves you were rubbish back then. Even in tests we won in 87 and won two tests in 99 losing only one. We had a better team 87-2003 and you have been better since.

[achilles]

^ Mate, when was the last time your team won a match vs India in the World Cup, which is only manned by neutral umpires? Right, NEVER!

[Utalk]

I never questioned your dominance in world cups. But I am sick of majority of posters degrading Imran khan. If we did well in 80s and 90s because of home umpires in Pakistan and fixing in Sharjah then how would you explain Pakistan dominating Ind in India with Indian umpires. We never lost a test series in Eng for 24 years winning 87-92 and 96 and drawing in 02.There were no Pakistani umpires there.

[achilles]

I never questioned your dominance in world cups. But I am sick of majority of posters degrading Imran khan. If we did well in 80s and 90s because of home umpires in Pakistan and fixing in Sharjah then how would you explain Pakistan dominating Ind in India with Indian umpires. We never lost a test series in Eng for 24 years winning 87-92 and 96 and drawing in 02.There were no Pakistani umpires there.

Bro, have you realized that majority of all this name-calling jazz is prima-facie retaliatory? There is no smoke without fire. People from your side of the border do some pretty nasty posting about our players as well, don't they? How many Kapil sucks, Imran rocks threads have flooded the Pakistani interwebs? We must realize that we have to coexist and I can assure you of one thing, we simply respond. Instigation is seldom an Indian act, whatever be the case or scenario.

[Raghav_12]

I never questioned your dominance in world cups. But I am sick of majority of posters degrading Imran khan. If we did well in 80s and 90s because of home umpires in Pakistan and fixing in Sharjah then how would you explain Pakistan dominating Ind in India with Indian umpires. We never lost a test series in Eng for 24 years winning 87-92 and 96 and drawing in 02.There were no Pakistani umpires there.

Bottle Caps Pakistan's better record in 80's and early 90's against India, everywhere including India, just proves that India was rubbish against Pakistan. But don't understand how it contradicts with the argument that Pakistan used to cheat a lot at home through their umpires. Change in Pakistan's winning % and Javed Miandad's LBW pattern clearly indicates that.

[Utalk]

Bottle Caps Pakistan's better record in 80's and early 90's against India, everywhere including India, just proves that India was rubbish against Pakistan. But don't understand how it contradicts with the argument that Pakistan used to cheat a lot at home through their umpires. Change in Pakistan's winning % and Javed Miandad's LBW pattern clearly indicates that.

Yes now bring in ball tampering. Mate now world recognises reverse swing. Are they all tampering?

[Raghav_12]

Yes now bring in ball tampering. Mate now world recognises reverse swing. Are they all tampering?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imran_Khan Read section 2.2 - Post retirement, from start. or read this article http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket-imran-admits-cheating-glenn-moore-on-the-book-throwing-light-on-a-touchy-subject-1434755.html

[Manny_Pacquiao]

neutral umpires along with improved technology, namely widespread use of cameras all across stadiums, have taken away the big advantage paki bowlers had - i.e. ball tampering. they have gotten caught at least 5 times since 2000, and f*** knows how many times they got away with it. it just isnt possible for them to work on the ball like they could, and their record has suffered becaus eof it.

Yes now bring in ball tampering. Mate now world recognises reverse swing. Are they all tampering?

why dont u ask shoaib akhtar: Almost all Pakistani fast bowlers have tampered with the ball. I may be the first one to openly admit to it, but everybody is doing it. I won't name him, but one Pakistani cricketer actually switched the ball in the umpire's pocket with one that reversed like crazy! Umpires usually keep the ball in their coat pocket and then hang their coat up for lunch. That was when the transfer occurred. After this incident, they now leave their coats in a locked room. There are so many ways to prepare the ball; it's not just a matter of scratching it. I have used my boot nails and the zip of my back pocket. Many bowlers put Vaseline or gum on the ball. The only way to stop this is for the ICC to ensure that at least some pitches are prepared in favour of bowlers. That would make the game less one sided and more balanced. The game, especially now, has become very unequal and only favours the batsman-if you bowl a no-ball, the batsman gets a free hit; bouncers have been curtailed; and a bowler can't even touch his hair before picking up the ball. They have restricted us so mercilessly that I find it very difficult to feel entirely guilty about ball tampering. Since we can't seem to stop doing it, maybe it's not a bad idea to legalize it and set rules for it. After all, it's still an art to use that ball. You need the pace and the skill. Not everyone can do it. Perhaps some manipulation of the ball, like scratching it with your nails, could be legally allowed . . . sigh ! I know I am going to get it in the neck for saying all this.

[the don]

the stats if anything further drive home the fact that pakistan even after the neutral umpires is twice as good as what india was with home umpires :haha:, and than there is a simple matter of away record which i will post for your convenience [ATTACH]1816[/ATTACH] a breif history of away tests in times of non neutral umpires :hatsoff:

[Naaz-neesh]

stats are deviously manageable. As many indians lend the theory of india challenging the mighty australians during 2000s, as precursor the 2nd best team. Pakistan were the only team in the 80s to stand toe-to-toe with west indies and fight, and never lost home or AWAY. And pakistan's away record in w/l ratio was second to only west indies who had crazy ratio of something like 4 to 1. So your theory of bias umpiring glossing pakistan's success in the 80s to 90s is flawed.

[Utalk]

For manny Raghav and other blind haters. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sachin_Tendulkar The match referee Mike Denness found Sachin Tendulkar guilty of ball tampering charges and handed him a one Test match ban.

[Utalk]

the stats if anything further drive home the fact that pakistan even after the neutral umpires is twice as good as what india was with home umpires :haha:, and than there is a simple matter of away record which i will post for your convenience [ATTACH]1816[/ATTACH] a breif history of away tests in times of non neutral umpires :hatsoff:

Did India really win only one test away from home in 90s. Now I know why some of these guys are so insecure about 80s and 90s. Guys move on you have a fantastic side now so there is no point getting depressed about the past that can't be changed.