Emerging Players tournament, 2011

[msb1991]

We have a bowling coach with Indian team. It is his job to improve our bowling resources by improving our young upcoming fast bowlers. If he is no good' date=' why is he there then?[/quote'] What you said is valid, but I cannot really comment on it because I do not know how much coaching is done with the Indian team, whether there are good coaches away with the team, etc.

[Fontaine]

We have a bowling coach with Indian team. It is his job to improve our bowling resources by improving our young upcoming fast bowlers. If he is no good' date=' why is he there then?[/quote'] I think Simmons is a good coach. You can see that in the way Praveen/Ishant have bowled in the current and last series. With Ishant it was very, very clear that he would bowl short to put he batsmen on the back foot and then keep bowling his usual stock deliveries that sometime keep straight and at other times move in to the RHB. With Praveen he's been consistently asked to bowl full and try and swing it both ways instead of wasting his deliveries by trying to bowl bouncers (which is something he used to do at times in ODI cricket). Also Praveen pulled back his delivery point well behind the crease when KP was batting out of his. All that stuff is due to good coaching and bowlers doing their job as well. But all the good coaching in the world isn't going to change/improve a bowler unless the bowler himself puts in the effort and guys into the advice.

[rkt.india]

@ Fontaine a bowling coach's work is to work on the weakness of a bowler in the nets and make strong points even stronger. Bowling coach mus ensure that bowlers work hard in the nets.

[msb1991]

The issue is that the international arena is not the place to work on technical changes. That should be done in the domestic off season. International cricket has no off season. Therefore, we should not pick people before they are ready and we should have some top coaches working outside the international set up.

[rkt.india]

The issue is that the international arena is not the place to work on technical changes. That should be done in the domestic off season. International cricket has no off season. Therefore' date=' we should not pick people before they are ready and we should have some top coaches working outside the international set up.[/quote'] Yes at NCA, but bowlers playing at international level too can develop bad habits. it is no guarantee that a bowler playing international cricket cannot run into some technical deficiencies. There is no word like ready or perfect. There is no ready made replacement or ready made players. Most players learn while they play highest cricket. There is no alternative to that.

[Fontaine]

@ Fontaine a bowling coach's work is to work on the weakness of a bowler in the nets and make strong points even stronger. Bowling coach mus ensure that bowlers work hard in the nets.

Well, yes and no. During a series/preperation this can't be done. Too little time, too much to do in regards to getting used to conditions, plans against batsmen etc. I think the grooming of younger players like Yadav, Aaron, Tyagi, Unadkat, Kulkarni, Mithun can't be done by the national team coach when they're not really part of the squad. Instead, it's the responsibility of the BCCI to have a plan in place that works bottom up from domestic cricket/First Class-List A tours/to national selection. This means that areas that need work like seam position, hitting the deck hard, stamina, fitness aren't just the responsibility of the players themselves but analyzed, improved, tracked by all the coaches from domestic cricket upwards. This is why some of us were really pissed off when the BCCI banned contracted Indian players from getting support from the MRF pace academy that had years of experience doing exactly this sort of stuff not just with Indian bowlers, but international bowlers as well and educating domestic cricket coaches. Right now the only body that can or is supposed do this is the NCA cricket academy but it's clearly not doing this since it passed a fitness test for Sreesanth ahead of the England tour when he cleary wasn't ready and we all saw how his pace was way down because he had not stamina/fitness. IMO, right now, all the responsibility of improvement is on the bowlers themselves and in some cases they really work hard (Ishant) and in others they would rather pursue other hobbies (Sreesanth). I don't think there's any biomechanical analysis, regular check ups on stress/wear and tear on the body etc.

[Fontaine]

Let's take RP Singh's example: Before the England tour in 2007, RP Singh had played in county cricket and here is what he said about it:

"My time at Leicester was well spent," RP says. "They did a significant amount of work on my leg strength, which proved decisive with my body action, and eventually with my pace and rhythm."

According to the Leicester coaches, this is what was done in ONE MONTH:

"The first thing we did once he got off the plane was muscle screening," said Boon, who worked as a video analyst-cum-coach with England's Ashes-winning side of 2005 and has been linked to the Indian coaching job recently. "It was clear there were some deficiencies with regard to leg strength. My praise goes to the physio for identifying something that can affect his action. He was given specific strength work to do which created more stability." Susie Woolmer, the county's strength and conditioning coach, explained the regimen RP Singh had been put through. "We devised a programme that would improve his core strength but specifically focused on his right hip, the right buttock and upper part of the leg to give more strength. We had seen muscle tightness and it was felt the weakness in this area was causing him to fall away. Strengthening those would give him a more powerful landing foot and a much higher release point." Boon noticed an immediate improvement, especially with regard to the ball that came into the right-hander. "Once he increased his leg strength, there was more stability in his run through the crease, which in turn gave him a better wrist position. He could get off the back foot quicker. And look at the end result. He can swing the ball back into the right-hander and away from the left." Boon also credited Singh's work ethic. "His commitment and desire to want to change - get an extra half-yard, swing the ball into the right-hander - was there. He came off the plane and played the next day. He said he felt as if he was bowling with deep-sea diving boots on."

So, my question is, why the hell did RP have to travel thousands of miles just to do this? The BCCI is the richest cricketing body in the world and our cricketers/bowlers, especially younger players should have the best possible facilities/equipment/coaching available, when cleary, in RP Singh's case THEY DID NOT. In my opinion if RP Singh had been born in England/Australia he would already be a very consistent and good bowler. The guy is a left arm bowler that can swing the ball both ways at mid 80's speed with excellent use of the crease. Guys like that are rare. Yet what conditioning/grooming/support has he received since he was dropped from the team? Instead we've got bowlers that pass a so called fitness test and break down hours later or clearly don't have the stamina/fitness standards to even bowl two long spells. I read an article in January months ago on cricinfo from Aakash Chopra that said that in domestic cricket bowlers don't get to play enough with kookaburra balls because they are too expensive.

Firstly, there is an obvious scarcity of these rather expensive balls and hence all one gets are only a couple of balls in the practice session, that too just a day before the match. And that’s certainly not enough to get used to the ball. It goes without saying that only a couple of bowlers bowl with these balls and the rest continue with the SG Test balls.

I think two years ago Chopra also wrote and article saying the domestic bowlers don't get to practice with Kookaburra balls, also because they are too expensive. THAT'S the reality of the situation. The richest cricket body in the world and the grass roots situation is that kookaburra balls are too expensive to practice/routinely play with. So the next time you see a young Indian fast bowler struggle to hit the deck hard or swing the Kookaburra ball in Australia/ODI matches etc. Think long and hard before you immediately criticize the poor guy.

[msb1991]

Top post, you are definitely my favourite member here,

[Cricket Tragic]

Let's take RP Singh's example: Before the England tour in 2007, RP Singh had played in county cricket and here is what he said about it: According to the Leicester coaches, this is what was done in ONE MONTH: So, my question is, why the hell did RP have to travel thousands of miles just to do this? The BCCI is the richest cricketing body in the world and our cricketers/bowlers, especially younger players should have the best possible facilities/equipment/coaching available, when cleary, in RP Singh's case THEY DID NOT. In my opinion if RP Singh had been born in England/Australia he would already be a very consistent and good bowler. The guy is a left arm bowler that can swing the ball both ways at mid 80's speed with excellent use of the crease. Guys like that are rare. Yet what conditioning/grooming/support has he received since he was dropped from the team? Instead we've got bowlers that pass a so called fitness test and break down hours later or clearly don't have the stamina/fitness standards to even bowl two long spells. I read an article in January months ago on cricinfo from Aakash Chopra that said that in domestic cricket bowlers don't get to play enough with kookaburra balls because they are too expensive. I think two years ago Chopra also wrote and article saying the domestic bowlers don't get to practice with Kookaburra balls, also because they are too expensive. THAT'S the reality of the situation. The richest cricket body in the world and the grass roots situation is that kookaburra balls are too expensive to practice/routinely play with. So the next time you see a young Indian fast bowler struggle to hit the deck hard or swing the Kookaburra ball in Australia/ODI matches etc. Think long and hard before you immediately criticize the poor guy.

:hatsoff:

[rkt.india]

this is sadly true look at every bowler who makes a comeback they all look half fit and the mantra is they will bowl themselves into fitness in int cricket ,while the team suffers in the bargain there is no intensity in ranji tropy bowling rp singh and other prospective bowlers cut down their speed significantly and generally bowl at 120-125 range in ranji and then when they have to bowl quicker in int cricket their rhythm and action changes ,as a result things go from bad to worse

yeah..RP was barely putting any effort in the Duleep Trophy match I watched a bit. No pace at all, barely touching 130. Though there are problems from BCCI. WE lack infrastructure to train fast bowlers, but even what our bowlers do. They do not keep themselves fit when they are out of the team. You cannot put on loads of weight as a cricket whichever level you are playing especially if you are a bowler. He still played highest domestic cricket. Look at Rahul Dravid. He only plays tests for last 3-4 years and still has never looked unfit even after a long break. Individual dedication also plays a big part. How much a person desires to come back into the team once he is dropped and works on his fitness and deficiencies, it is quite opposite in so many cases. Look at Irfan, he was dropped, he got injured, suffered lots of injuries, more than RP who was dropped because of bad form. Irfan did not bowl for more than a year and bowled in IPL after a long time, but still look at him. He looks so fit physically, no extra weight at all. He is as lean as he was before. These bowlers may not get the facilities bowlers in England get, but keeping a fit and lean body is not a difficult task if you play cricket consistently and follow a fitness regime. NCA gives a fitness regime to every player for off season. because they cannot spend whole time NCA, so it is up to individual player as how he follows the regime he has. Its not rocket science to go to gym and work out or got to local cricket ground and bowl in the nets or run.

[rkt.india]

this is sadly true look at every bowler who makes a comeback they all look half fit and the mantra is they will bowl themselves into fitness in int cricket ,while the team suffers in the bargain there is no intensity in ranji tropy bowling rp singh and other prospective bowlers cut down their speed significantly and generally bowl at 120-125 range in ranji and then when they have to bowl quicker in int cricket their rhythm and action changes ,as a result things go from bad to worse

yeah..RP was barely putting any effort in the Duleep Trophy match I watched a bit. No pace at all, barely touching 130. Though there are problems from BCCI. WE lack infrastructure to train fast bowlers, but even what our bowlers do. They do not keep themselves when they are out of the team. You cannot put on loads of weight as a cricket whichever level you are playing especially if you are a bowler. He still played highest domestic cricket. Look at Rahul Dravid. He only plays tests for last 3-4 years and still has never looked unfit even after a long break. Individual dedication also plays a big part. How much a person desires to come back into the team once he is dropped and works on his fitness and deficiencies, it is quite opposite in so many cases. Look at Irfan, he was dropped, he got injured, suffered lots of injuries, more than RP who was dropped because of bad form. Irfan did not bowl for more than a year and bowled in IPL after a long time, but still look at him. He looks so fit physically, no extra weight at all. He is as lean as he was before. These bowlers may not get the facilities bowlers in England get, but keeping a fit and lean body is not a difficult task if you play cricket consistently and follow a fitness regime. NCA gives a fitness regime to every player for off season. because they cannot spend whole time NCA, so it is up to individual player as how he follows the regime he has. Its not rocket science to go to gym and work out or got to local cricket ground and bowl in the nets or run.

[Fontaine]

Top post' date=' you are definitely my favourite member here,[/quote'] Thanks dude. But you need to post here more often!! Always good to talk about bowling.

[nsareen]

yeah..RP was barely putting any effort in the Duleep Trophy match I watched a bit. No pace at all, barely touching 130. Though there are problems from BCCI. WE lack infrastructure to train fast bowlers, but even what our bowlers do. They do not keep themselves when they are out of the team. You cannot put on loads of weight as a cricket whichever level you are playing especially if you are a bowler. He still played highest domestic cricket. Look at Rahul Dravid. He only plays tests for last 3-4 years and still has never looked unfit even after a long break. Individual dedication also plays a big part. How much a person desires to come back into the team once he is dropped and works on his fitness and deficiencies, it is quite opposite in so many cases. Look at Irfan, he was dropped, he got injured, suffered lots of injuries, more than RP who was dropped because of bad form. Irfan did not bowl for more than a year and bowled in IPL after a long time, but still look at him. He looks so fit physically, no extra weight at all. He is as lean as he was before. These bowlers may not get the facilities bowlers in England get, but keeping a fit and lean body is not a difficult task if you play cricket consistently and follow a fitness regime. NCA gives a fitness regime to every player for off season. because they cannot spend whole time NCA, so it is up to individual player as how he follows the regime he has. Its not rocket science to go to gym and work out or got to local cricket ground and bowl in the nets or run.

[Blue Panther]

yeah..RP was barely putting any effort in the Duleep Trophy match I watched a bit. No pace at all, barely touching 130. Though there are problems from BCCI. WE lack infrastructure to train fast bowlers, but even what our bowlers do. They do not keep themselves when they are out of the team. You cannot put on loads of weight as a cricket whichever level you are playing especially if you are a bowler. He still played highest domestic cricket. Look at Rahul Dravid. He only plays tests for last 3-4 years and still has never looked unfit even after a long break. Individual dedication also plays a big part. How much a person desires to come back into the team once he is dropped and works on his fitness and deficiencies, it is quite opposite in so many cases. Look at Irfan, he was dropped, he got injured, suffered lots of injuries, more than RP who was dropped because of bad form. Irfan did not bowl for more than a year and bowled in IPL after a long time, but still look at him. He looks so fit physically, no extra weight at all. He is as lean as he was before. These bowlers may not get the facilities bowlers in England get, but keeping a fit and lean body is not a difficult task if you play cricket consistently and follow a fitness regime. NCA gives a fitness regime to every player for off season. because they cannot spend whole time NCA, so it is up to individual player as how he follows the regime he has. Its not rocket science to go to gym and work out or got to local cricket ground and bowl in the nets or run.

Thats correct man. I have no idea why rp singh is selected for england tour. It will be a joke if he plays in the 4th test. Vinay kumar is even bigger joke and we indian fans are suffering because of the selectors. Varun, arun and shammi should have played more games than these rps and vinays.

[nsareen]

Thats correct man. I have no idea why rp singh is selected for england tour. It will be a joke if he plays in the 4th test. Vinay kumar is even bigger joke and we indian fans are suffering because of the selectors. Varun, arun and shammi should have played more games than these rps and vinays.

:nervous: Umesh ?

[Blue Panther]

:nervous: Umesh ?

yeah umesh. sorry:--D

[msb1991]

Shammi?

[Cricket Tragic]

Thats correct man. I have no idea why rp singh is selected for england tour. It will be a joke if he plays in the 4th test. Vinay kumar is even bigger joke and we indian fans are suffering because of the selectors. Varun, arun and shammi should have played more games than these rps and vinays.

Who is Shammi?

[Blue Panther]

Shammi?

SULTANô SWING With this attack, India wonÃÕ be No. 1 ever again The only solution for India going forward is to look to groom young fast bowlers as with this attack, they will never become No. 1 again. But there is enough talent in India for that as well. I can name two right away. Varun Aaron, who was in the Kolkata Knight Riders team two years ago and now plays for the Delhi Daredevils, is quick. He has got the pace to trouble batsmen. Two years ago, he was injury prone. But the thing with Varun is that he is young. If India think he should play domestic cricket for two more seasons before being picked, they are wrong. Take him on tours, make him bowl in the nets and expose him to the same regimen that a regular goes through. If you go by the old formulas of three or four seasons, by then Varun will not be the same bowler. Pick him now. Then there is another guy called Shami Ahmed, who plays Ranji Trophy for Bengal but hails from Moradabad. He was also part of the KKR squad this year. He bowls 140-142 easily. The selectors need to follow horses for courses and pick only bowlers with pace for Tests. Swinging the ball is fine, but only if you swing it at pace will you succeed. I can see Ishant, who looked good against West Indies, suddenly looking ordinary. Sreesanth was wayward, giving away 150 runs without a wicket. Praveen is a good bowler, but he is not somebody who will pick five for 25. Praveen can be your support bowler, not main bowler. All three looked very average to me. England scored 700 against India. How many teams score 700 these days? I also saw no planning. TCM WASIM AKRAM

[Cricket Tragic]

We are so spoilt for choice. A new fast bowler every week. :woot: