Emerging Players tournament, 2011

[Fontaine]

These bowlers may not get the facilities bowlers in England get' date=' but keeping a fit and lean body is not a difficult task if you play cricket consistently and follow a fitness regime. NCA gives a fitness regime to every player for off season. because they cannot spend whole time NCA, so it is up to individual player as how he follows the regime he has. Its not rocket science to go to gym and work out or got to local cricket ground and bowl in the nets or run.[/quote'] I agree with what you're saying in terms of keeping fit and it is also the responsibility of the player. But there's a difference in being just fit and being bowling fit. Venkatesh Prasad is on record as saying that while he was the coach some bowlers wouldn't put the effort in net sessions, barely bowling for 20 minutes. But there don't seem to be any repercussions. Sreesanth is clearly not bowling fit. In the third test his pace was similar to PK's, and when he went around the wicket he shortened his run up and ended up bowling three no balls, and two boundary balls in one over. The guy was basically experimenting in the middle of test match, instead of doing what any sane bowler would do and try that in domestic/net sessions etc. So, how the hell did he pass a fitness test at the NCA? The guy is clearly not 100% ready even though he's had all year to prepare then how is he expected to be in form? And exactly what did they test him on because he clearly hadn't bowled for Kerala so they wouldn't have known what kind of form he was in. Yes, the players have to take responsibility, but it's also the responsibility of selectors/management to drop players like Sreesanth that don't show the required commitment.

[Fontaine]

Let's take Sreesanth's example. After the Caribean WC, the BCCI formed a comittee to examine the reasons why India were knocked out so early. In one of the recommendations, it was stated that contracted players HAVE to play in domestic cricket. Yet we have numerous cases where bowlers like Sreesanth, even though they have the time and are available don't make the effort to play in domestic cricket enough. Yet they keep getting selected. So what kind of example does that set for younger bowlers like Tyagi/Mithun etc when they see a half fit Sreesanth who's barely played any domestic cricket over the past couple of years get selected ahead of them in an all important England Test series? Or even some one like RP Singh gets selected ahead of them? Like I've said, there's no long term plan, grooming of fast bowlers. It's all done ad hoc, at the moment, on instinct and hunches.

The BCCI statement: With a view to strengthen domestic cricket, efforts will be made to ensure that all Test and ODI cricketers play in the Irani Trophy, Duleep Trophy, Challenger series and some Ranji Trophy Matches. All the players will have to play a stipulated number of Domestic matches when not playing for India.

So how many domestic matches have we seen Sreesanth, Zaheer, Sehwag etc play in domestic cricket? The BCCI can sure as hell change/juggle the entire year's schedule to make SURE Indian players participate in the IPL but no such consideration to domestic cricket.

[Blue Panther]

Let's take Sreesanth's example. After the Caribean WC, the BCCI formed a comittee to examine the reasons why India were knocked out so early. In one of the recommendations, it was stated that contracted players HAVE to play in domestic cricket. Yet we have numerous cases where bowlers like Sreesanth, even though they have the time and are available don't make the effort to play in domestic cricket enough. Yet they keep getting selected. So what kind of example does that set for younger bowlers like Tyagi/Mithun etc when they see a half fit Sreesanth who's barely played any domestic cricket over the past couple of years get selected ahead of them in an all important England Test series? Or even some one like RP Singh gets selected ahead of them? Like I've said, there's no long term plan, grooming of fast bowlers. It's all done ad hoc, at the moment, on instinct and hunches.

Thats correct .sreesanth wasn't fit at all. Now the reports are coming out that even rp singh isn't fit to play the 4th test.

[Fontaine]

Thats correct .sreesanth wasn't fit at all. Now the reports are coming out that even rp singh isn't fit to play the 4th test.

Now put yourself in the position of a young fast bowler like Mithun, Kulkarni, Yadav, Tyagi and others who've been putting in the hard yards in domestic cricket under the scorching sun in heat and humidity. Instead of being selected on merit/form, you get to watch a half fit Sreesanth who avoided playing for Kerela and instead was busy acting in movies, touring in a band FFS, get selected ahead of you. And then just to rub it in, RP Singh gets selected out of oblivion ahead of you too. No wonder more and more young players don't give a damn about test cricket and instead are happy to make their money in the IPL.

[saneindian]

^ Kulkarni anbd Tyagi are themselves recuperating from injuries. I won't be surprised to see Yadav and Aaron traveling to England for the ODIs very soon, Donlt think PK and Ishant will have any energy left to last this entire tour. 3-4 ODIs, 1 t20 and 6 tests in the last 2 months without much of a break. They badly need some rest or at least runs from the batsmen to bowl without much pressure.

[msb1991]

Then there is another guy called Shami Ahmed' date= who plays Ranji Trophy for Bengal but hails from Moradabad. He was also part of the KKR squad this year. He bowls 140-142 easily. The selectors need to follow horses for courses and pick only bowlers with pace for Tests.

Pure pace has shown itself to be more effective in ODIs and T20 than in Tests. Note Brett Lee who had far greater success at ODI level, Akhtar whose success in ODI level was similar to Test levels but over more games and Shaun Tait, who had no success in Tests but great success in ODIs and T20s.

[msb1991]

Fontaine, I cannot be bothered to quote your posts, but I agree 100% with your assessments.

[Malcolm Merlyn]

I say give these youngsters a chance.Anyways our bowling isnt doing great,these guys wont do anything worse.PK would have picked up a lot more wickets if he would have been bowling at 85MPH and not 75MPH.His lesser pace allows batsmen to stand outside the crease and negate the speed or even come to the front foot early as his bouncer wont trouble any one.Also due to lack of pace it gives batsmen time to adjust. When the likes of aaron Umesh and Shami etc will be bowling to international batsmen even in the nets...it would give them immense experience and also they will learn how to bowl to top class batsmen. We need to stop this practice of falling back on failures like RP Sreesanth Agarkar andcompany...they need to be discarded...

[Blue Panther]

Pure pace has shown itself to be more effective in ODIs and T20 than in Tests. Note Brett Lee who had far greater success at ODI level' date=' Akhtar whose success in ODI level was similar to Test levels but over more games and Shaun Tait, who had no success in Tests but great success in ODIs and T20s.[/quote'] i didnt said that. wasim akram did.:--D

[rkt.india]

Pure pace has shown itself to be more effective in ODIs and T20 than in Tests. Note Brett Lee who had far greater success at ODI level' date=' Akhtar whose success in ODI level was similar to Test levels but over more games and Shaun Tait, who had no success in Tests but great success in ODIs and T20s.[/quote'] Lee's SR in tests is 53 while McGrath's 51 so there is no much difference in strike rate, but difference in average because of Lee's extra pace and being an attacking bowler, he could be wayward at times and went for runs but he mostly took wickets. Shoaib Akhtar has a very good test record whatever he played average of 25 and SR of 45. Also do not forget Waqar who to was a genuine pacer when he was at his most prolific in test cricket, same is Alan Donald who also for the most part was a genuine pacer. But I do not think only pure pace can have that much of an effect and make a bowler good to very good or great. It is the mixture of skills like swing, seam, and pace. All the above bowlers had pace but they could swing or seam the ball as well whether it is Lee, Akhtar, Waqar, or Donald. Still pace is always handy to send the batsmen on back foot.

[Rahul Dravid]

Now put yourself in the position of a young fast bowler like Mithun, Kulkarni, Yadav, Tyagi and others who've been putting in the hard yards in domestic cricket under the scorching sun in heat and humidity. Instead of being selected on merit/form, you get to watch a half fit Sreesanth who avoided playing for Kerela and instead was busy acting in movies, touring in a band FFS, get selected ahead of you. And then just to rub it in, RP Singh gets selected out of oblivion ahead of you too. No wonder more and more young players don't give a damn about test cricket and instead are happy to make their money in the IPL.

:((

[Rahul Dravid]

Lee's SR in tests is 53 while McGrath's 51 so there is no much difference in strike rate, but difference in average because of Lee's extra pace and being an attacking bowler, he could be wayward at times and went for runs but he mostly took wickets. Shoaib Akhtar has a very good test record whatever he played average of 25 and SR of 45. Also do not forget Waqar who to was a genuine pacer and cheater when he was at his most prolific in test cricket, same is Alan Donald who also for the most part was a genuine pacer. But I do not think only pure pace can have that much of an effect and make a bowler good to very good or great. It is the mixture of skills like swing, seam, and pace. All the above bowlers had pace but they could swing or seam the ball as well whether it is Lee, Akhtar, Waqar, or Donald. Still pace is always handy to send the batsmen on back foot.

[Chandan]

So how many of you want want to pick Aaron/Yadav/Unadkat (seamers of this EPT) for the home test series vs WI later this year and how many of you want them to play one more season at the domestic cricket before taking a plunge in the international cricket?

[rkt.india]

So how many of you want want to pick Aaron/Yadav/Unadkat (seamers of this EPT) for the home test series vs WI later this year and how many of you want them to play one more season at the domestic cricket before taking a plunge in the international cricket?

I want Varun Aaron to play any warm up game when WI tour, one or two ODIs and Ranji Trophy in November, then we will see if he has done in Ranji, we can take him Aus tour. They both may not get to play WI tests because Ishant and PK will play adn I do not want them to miss initial ranji matches. They way Aaron bowled in Aus flat pitches and still took wicket at an average of 28 against some good batsmen, if he can bowl like that in this ranji season, he will take quite a few wickets this season. He has already toured Aus two times in his short career. He can be groomed there or can play warm ups there. If he does well, he can play if some one gets injured, Otherwise will be in the team for grooming purposes or can play in ODIs following the test series. Same is with Yadav. Not in case of Unadkat. He certainly needs some time to develop. Our pace attack in Aus can be Zak if fit, Ishant, Munaf, PK, Aaron, and Yadav. Dark horse is Sudeep Tyagi if he does well in ranji and stays fit, though I would want him to play this full domestic season, take lot sof wickets and claim for a spot. Another concern of mine is Left arm pacer if Zak is not fit, we need to look forward ahead of Irfan and RP as left arm pacer. Unadkat is not yet real deal and has age on his side. Pawan Suyal and Shrikant Wagh who both had good FC season last year must be groomed. A left arm pace is must in modern cricket.

[Chandan]

So you are not bothered about the home series at all and are not even bothered to think what the attack should should be?

[rkt.india]

So you are not bothered about the home series at all and are not even bothered to think what the attack should should be?

I have written above that PK and Ishant and certain to play tests against WI if they are fit and we will only play two pacers in test in India. Ojha and Ashwin can fill spinners slot for me. PK, Ishant, Munaf will be our first choice pacers in India against WI. It is the Australian tour which is tough and more important. I would let Aaron and Yadav play 3-4 Ranji matches this season before selection. This is a double-edged sword to pick and play two rookies in a home series on flat pitches. This is a gamble they can take, but if you think wisely, they still need to play more FC games for their development.

[Fontaine]

Our pace attack in Aus can be Zak if fit, Ishant, Munaf, PK, Aaron, and Yadav. Dark horse is Sudeep Tyagi if he does well in ranji and stays fit, though I would want him to play this full domestic season, take lot sof wickets and claim for a spot.

What's going on with Tyagi? I think he has some natural talent and I like the fact that he's a tall bowler with a high arm action. Has he been playing since his stress fracture? Did he have to modify/change his bowling?

[rkt.india]

nothing has changed whether it was picking balaji and pathan in 2003 or ishant and pankaj in 2007 or varun or yadav in 2011 ' date=' its all seems to be more in hope than any conviction.[/quote'] but you also must look at the trend. Between Irfan and Balaji, both were of similar pace while Bala had injuries, Irfan did well to his abilities in bowling and now is out. Between Ishant and Pankaj, Pankaj Did not even play a game other than one ODI, Ishant was faster of all these three and has done well even again strong oppositions in tests and is still learning and improving. Now Aaron and Yadav, they both are even faster than Ishant, Ishant progressed well and looks to have a long career, and if one of these two raw guys can imitate Ishant then it will be good for India.

[rkt.india]

What's going on with Tyagi? I think he has some natural talent and I like the fact that he's a tall bowler with a high arm action. Has he been playing since his stress fracture? Did he have to modify/change his bowling?

He had stress fracture after his debut Ranji season in 2009 and he could not do much in his second season as he was recuperating from his injury and was still coming to terms with his modeled action, but he played a few Ranji matches last season and did extremely well 3 matches, took 18 wickets at an average of 14 and strike rate of 26, played a big hand in winning 2 of those 3 matches for UP with 2 fifers, but in his fourth match, he got injured while batting I suppose because he only batted in that match and did not bowl a single delivery. He must be injured while batting that I presume. There is no report which I can source about this though. He is a good bowler but needs to be seen how he does this season or if he is fit.

[CG]

I think Simmons is a good coach. You can see that in the way Praveen/Ishant have bowled in the current and last series. With Ishant it was very, very clear that he would bowl short to put he batsmen on the back foot and then keep bowling his usual stock deliveries that sometime keep straight and at other times move in to the RHB. With Praveen he's been consistently asked to bowl full and try and swing it both ways instead of wasting his deliveries by trying to bowl bouncers (which is something he used to do at times in ODI cricket). Also Praveen pulled back his delivery point well behind the crease when KP was batting out of his. All that stuff is due to good coaching and bowlers doing their job as well. But all the good coaching in the world isn't going to change/improve a bowler unless the bowler himself puts in the effort and guys into the advice.

Funny ishant has been doing that all his life so had praveen kumar in domestic cricket .its what is the problem we are not bowling enough bouncers ,nor if guys like strauss and cook are complusive pullers we bowl just full same with bell we got him with bouncers as he pulls almost everytime.but no plan