F1 in India.. what waste of money !

[CC1981]

Hypothetical. You are free to disagree.

Lurks, money return from F1 is a safer bet than M$ surving the decade. No joke. It is about as sound and sure-fire as it gets in the business world. I happen to know someone personally who was one of the contractors for building the Shanghai GP..you should talk to her...will blow your mind coz i dont think you are grasping the scale of benifits brought forth by F1.

Have mentioned it 200 times now that to me a Sports is no Sports if it rides on back of MONEY.

And i have already mentioned that a) F1 isnt a sport and b) riding on back of money is far more important than empty pride issues. a sport making money is far more important than bragging rights through the sport.

You are yet to answer how Mumbaikar have not become "rich" by cricket even though lot many more people are involved in doing secondary jobs.

I have ALREADY ANSWERED THIS! Cricket doesnt see 100,000 + people arriving in Mumbai, all seeking accomodation, parking rental space for their mammoth trucks & equipments. Cricket sees its money through TV RIGHTS SPONSORSHIPS...not a few 100,000+ tourists comming in to town and living it up large for 3 days. In F1, the money DIRECTLY PUMPED into the economy is in the range of 50-80 million dollars a year..this is DISCOUNTING tv rights..this is JUST the city making money by offering services such as food, lodge, parties etc. to the influx of tourists and personnel in F1 events.

Regardless let me say once again that I am yet to see anything of note from you folks..except Money of course.

Money >>>empty chest-thumping pride. Hell, i'd rather India build an F1 track over promoting cricket any further!

[Predator_05]

IAnd Predator ' date=' I do not know what is your obsession with India coming up in the world of F1 or whatever. We are talking about people not having food to eat or a house to live. Go and try convincing them about the positive aspects of India in the world of F1[/quote'] As much as i support F1's establishment in India, i still recognise that the public by and large won't take it to it. I made this point in my very first post on this thread. The reason is because we also have plenty of people who take this "what about the poor" line of thinking on every big investment opportunity which emerges.

[CC1981]

Yes they can be.. NOBODY can come forward and confidently say what was the economic impact of a major sporting event.

Despite that claim, Quebec govt. publishes estimates correct within 1 million dollars on yearly money generated in Montreal due to Montreal GP.

Oh really ? for how many days ? 3 days a year ? Then what about the rest of the 362 days ?

Eh ?? so what ? which stadium sees more than 3-4 days of international activity every year anyways ?!

You are yet to prove in clear terms of how it does !

Creation of jobs in immediate construction + the yearly 50-60 million dollars pumped DIRECTLY into the economy by tourists = filter down effect on EVERY SECTOR of that city's economy! what do you want me to do ? come up with an Alan Greenspan-esque budget ?

[Lurker]

That is my point. They were one of the best, but in the global scheme of things they were nowhere before Yao. Much in the same way India has produced a Formula 1 racer in Narain, and is therefore the best racing country in Asia after Japan. See the similarity ? That goes out to show that there is distinguishable talent in these parts of the world, and the big sports establishments such as the NBA and now F1, have taken notice.

Then I probably understood you incorrectly. I was of the opinion you meant NBA helped Chinese BB. My opinion is it didnt. Sure it offered them an exposure but Chinese were good at BB anyway. Maybe NBA just took it at a differen level.

It's obvious that if a major sporting establishment has a presence in some country, the popularity in that particular sport will automatically see an increase. The rise in popularity of a sport can result in the creation of a sportsman who can represent the country. The NBA accelerated China's development in the sport and exploited the potential interest that was noticeable in that market. F1 can achieve the same with India. All your criticism regarding the prospect of F1 in India could be aimed at China pre-Yao as well, but 4 years on we are seeing the Chinese reap the benefits of the NBA's investment there. The China-NBA example is merely one of many. I am just saying that there is no reason why the same results can't be observed in India. Can you give me a reason why India is so different ?

Well I think here you are mistaken. The point is basketball was already popular in China before NBA barged in. And bear in mind this is pre-cable tv era. So the only popularity is via people actually playing the game. In other words BB was played by a lot of Chinese. This is different from F1 in India which is largely only a viewership game. I would be really intersted in knowing how many Indians are officially registered for racing of any sorts in India.

There is a difference between playing and watching. Sure, kids may play basketball just like they play kabbadi - but they don't spare time to watch the NBA do they ? You can't say the same about F1, which has a more than viable viewership and a genuine fan base - as evidenced by the stats i provided you with before

Yes and I am not arguing about the stats am I? I am taking it with a pinch of salt since the number is quite sizeable. My disagreement with that is when you have almost 10% of your population supporting F1(based on the stats you put) surely it should be evidenced by number of people that follow the game, the times Indian media covers F1 races, the events covered by Sports magazine etc etc. If I use any of that indicator I am not sure I have seen F1 anymore popular than say NBA. xxx

[gorah_pindu]

Take it easy mate. I am not one of those who gloat. Just wanted to give it to you the way you were dissing it to me. Seems like you have one rule for yourself and second set of rules for others. No worries anyway. Take it easy lets hope for a better discussion next time, Cheers! xxx

Lurker - do you really want to escalate this? Insult me again, triggering an argument, or keep your peace. Its your choice - we can create a thread full of pointless insults. Or you can keep the sly comments out of your next reply. Dont be a hypocrite - you called my post absurd, I responded in kind to show you where that kind of posting will get you - now you want to claim some kind of moral high ground? We all know where that leads.

[Ram]

As much as i support F1's establishment in India' date=' i still recognise that the public by and large won't take it to it. I made this point in my very first post on this thread. The reason is because we also have plenty of people who take this "what about the poor" line of thinking on every big investment opportunity which emerges.[/quote'] I am not per say against Investment into F1. I am against any investment that i think isnt worthwhile ! So , if the govt decides to invest in a coal - mine or a dam which is found to not so useful , i would oppose that too. The people who oppose this idea are just saying - there are better ways to use the same money ? Is that wrong ? It is unfortunate that anybody who does not toe the capitalist line of things , is branded a socialist or actvist. Hell no ! We arent against investment . We just say , invest it in the right places !

[Ram]

Eh ?? so what ? which stadium sees more than 3-4 days of international activity every year anyways ?!

Hell yea ! Then why build a stadium in the first place ? Build an industry , or a technical college. Provide free education.

[The Outsider]

If it creates more money to be earmarked for the same things - then by what logic does it matter?

As far as I know the Sports Ministry's job is not to make huge investments. Their job is to promote sports and a sporting culture in India. There are other bodies which exist for the purpose of investments. Say, you give me two hundred bucks for the purpose of improving your squash game over a one week period. I take your money, invest it in the stock market and return you $250 bucks a week later, saying now you can get a better trainer. I think you should complain like hell.

[Gaurav]

I don't see why pride should even come in the frame :lightbulb: F1 track = Excellent exposure for BRAND INDIA! :martini_shaken:

[gorah_pindu]

I take your money' date=' invest it in the stock market and return you $250 bucks a week later, saying now you can get a better trainer. I think you should complain like hell.[/quote'] I wouldnt do it to a friend - but we are talking about a government.

[Ram]

I don't see why pride should even come in the frame :lightbulb: F1 track = Excellent exposure for BRAND INDIA! :martini_shaken:

Yes ! that is whole bloddy thing people are after ! symbolism ! an F1 race signifies the "rise" of India ! Try telling that to people $250 million people who live on less than a $2 a day !

[Lurker]

Lurker - do you really want to escalate this? Insult me again, triggering an argument, or keep your peace. Its your choice - we can create a thread full of pointless insults. Or you can keep the sly comments out of your next reply. Dont be a hypocrite - you called my post absurd, I responded in kind to show you where that kind of posting will get you - now you want to claim some kind of moral high ground? We all know where that leads.

Man you are one touchy specimen aren't you? You start by calling others names . isolationist, your argument is falling apart etc etc and someone calls your argument absurd and guess what happens! Well if you don't want to diss anything keep your own mouth shut as well. Do I want to escalate this? No. I do not have enough time, or patience, to fight for ego with unknown strangers on MB. But yes if you will have a go at me expect some lbacklash too. Hope I have made myself clear. xxxx

[The Outsider]

I wouldnt do it to a friend - but we are talking about a government.

And the government has many different wings. Your purpose in giving me the $200 bucks was to improve your squash game not give you $50 extra. If your purpose had been to make more money so that you can hire a better instructor you would have gone to a professional investor.

[Lurker]

Yes ! that is whole bloddy thing people are after ! symbolism ! an F1 race signifies the "rise" of India ! Try telling that to people $250 million people who live on less than a $2 a day !

Well there are 2 Indias Sriram. One that exists in actuality and what many "Indians" are ashamed of. The other that is portrayed by the gimmicks that F1 is. xx

[gorah_pindu]

Man you are one touchy specimen aren't you? You start by calling others names . isolationist, your argument is falling apart etc etc and someone calls your argument absurd and guess what happens! Well if you don't want to diss anything keep your own mouth shut as well. Do I want to escalate this? No. I do not have enough time, or patience, to fight for ego with unknown strangers on MB. But yes if you will have a go at me expect some lashback too. Hope I have made myself clear. xxxx

Since when is describing someone an isolationist for isolationist views an insult? Lets compare the two shall we? "I think your view about things being alien is isolationist and zenophobic because the world is one market/culture." "I think your post is absurd." Notaced the difference yet Lurker ji? You can gloat about 'turning the tables', but cant seem to take your own medicine. And now, you rather escalate this pointless crap, and have the last word. Goodbye.

[CC1981]

Lurks, i think it is your argument which is falling apart- F1 is being shown in this thread to benifit India in every which way imaginable..but instead, you want to focus on the rather naive and idealistic 'sports should be about sports and not money' idea, which does not take into consideration the FACT that people's lifestyle improvements are worth FAR more than bragging rights in any particular sport.

[Predator_05]

Then I probably understood you incorrectly. I was of the opinion you meant NBA helped Chinese BB. My opinion is it didnt. Sure it offered them an exposure but Chinese were good at BB anyway. Maybe NBA just took it at a differen level.

The NBA put Chinese basketball on the map

Well I think here you are mistaken. The point is basketball was already popular in China before NBA barged in. And bear in mind this is pre-cable tv era. So the only popularity is via people actually playing the game. In other words BB was played by a lot of Chinese. This is different from F1 in India which is largely only a viewership game. I would be really intersted in knowing how many Indians are officially registered for racing of any sorts in India.

So basketball in China was popular prior to the NBA's actual establishment in the country, just as F1 is popular in India at the moment ? That is a strange analogy of yours. Obviously not everyone who follows F1 would go out and drive go-karts every weekend now would they ? Motorsport is expensive - it's not like basketball, where you only need a ball and a hoop, playing in the corner of your apartment complex. Viewership is an accurate enough indicator of F1's popularity, so just because a handful of people are registered racers doesn't mean that it's not a closely followed sport. To race you also need tracks, and racing infrastructure in India is almost non-existent, BTW. F1's arrival would change that and consequently, more people could take to it.

Yes and I am not arguing about the stats am I? I am taking it with a pinch of salt since the number is quite sizeable. My disagreement with that is when you have almost 10% of your population supporting F1(based on the stats you put) surely it should be evidenced by number of people that follow the game, the times Indian media covers F1 races, the events covered by Sports magazine etc etc. If I use any of that indicator I am not sure I have seen F1 anymore popular than say NBA. xxx

Again, like i said before - F1 is a viewership sport for the most part - NOT a participation sport. That is what makes it slightly different. So if a race rakes in 91 million viewers, it can be deemed a success - regardless of whether people are racing cars or not. Again, can you find me one single NBA game which has generated a viewership of 91 million ? I have no clue how you can convincingly claim that F1 doesn't have a market in India when the viewership figures for races clearly indicartes otherwise. The Indian media DOES cover F1 - ESPN Star broadcast races live, the Times of India's backpages ALWAYS mention the latest results, so what more proof do you need ?

[Lurker]

Since when is describing someone an isolationist for isolationist views an insult? Lets compare the two shall we? "I think your view about things being alien is isolationist and zenophobic because the world is one market/culture." "I think your post is absurd." Notaced the difference yet Lurker ji? You can gloat about 'turning the tables', but cant seem to take your own medicine. And now, you rather escalate this pointless crap, and have the last word. Goodbye.

Okay one more time - take it easy. You say Goodbye, then come back for more and then Goodbye again. Look, go read the post with a calm mind, the only word that might be anything remotely offesive would be "absurd", then look at your own posts and see how you were having a go at me. And then to top it all your argument comes, "look how many peeps are after me matey..and what have you got?"..and then whenI do that guess what I suddenly start to gloat? Regardless lets end this tirade, its going nowhere. Like I said before hopoefully next time we will have a better discussion. xxxx

[Predator_05]

I am not per say against Investment into F1. I am against any investment that i think isnt worthwhile ! So , if the govt decides to invest in a coal - mine or a dam which is found to not so useful , i would oppose that too. The people who oppose this idea are just saying - there are better ways to use the same money ? Is that wrong ? It is unfortunate that anybody who does not toe the capitalist line of things , is branded a socialist or actvist. Hell no ! We arent against investment . We just say , invest it in the right places !

I agree with your sentiments, and my opinion is that F1 is a right place to invest. That si where the difference lies - many people don't understand that F1 WILL provide a hefty return on investment. If a coal mine generates thousands of jobs, draws in funds from companies abroad and one can project favourable revenue being generated by it during the course of the next 20 years or so, than i would say that it's a worthwhile investment ?

[Predator_05]

Try telling that to people $250 million people who live on less than a $2 a day !

Not all investments will benefit the poor. Sure, there are 250 million people who have a tough living, but why should the interests of the burgeoning middle class - the real FORCE behind India's economic growth - be compromised ? I suppose the Delhi Metro was a waste then - after all, the millions of destitutes in India can't even afford to ride it ? Forget the fact that millions of working class people have benefited from it, and thousands more made a livelihood out of building it.