F1 in India.. what waste of money !

[Lurker]

Absolutely. Take the example of Yao Ming and China. Viewership ratings for Rockets matches and NBA games in general have seen a perpetual increase since 2003. More and more kids are taking up the sport as a result, and NBA exhibition matches in China generate a great deal of interest amongst the younger generation. PS; the #3 pick in the NBA draft this season after Oden and Durant was a Chinese kid. There is your answer right there. Would Indians become great at basketball if the NBA was brought to India ? At first no, eventually YES !

I don't quite see it that way. China has been not seen OVERNIGHT basketball boom. From what I recall they have always been good at it, specially on Asian circuit level. Since the 1982 Asian games(MUCH BEFORE Yao Ming phenomenon) China has been in Basketballs finals(mens) EVERY time! That is they have been in 7 successive finals. They have won it 4 times and come 2nd 3 times. So you can put 2 and 2 together on whether NBA launched Chinese Basketball or did NBA merely exploit it? How can you compare it with India which has won nothing in past 40 years? Here is the link if you are interested. http://www.doha-2006.com/gis/menuroot/sports/Basketball_HR.aspx-id=BK.html

According to who ? You ? There is no way in hell that the NBA is more popular than F1 in INDIA. Primarily because of the time-difference. 91 million viewers mate, 91 million. Find me ONE sport in India besides cricket which generates that kind of interest.

My logic is simply based on how many people play basketball. Most of us, if not all, have played basketball in school/colleges. It is obvious that we have a bit of knowledge about the game and this is seen specially when Indians come to USA. How many NRI's you know that support NHL? Or how many support even MLB? Is it wrong to say that amongst NRI NBA is the leading game? Coincidence? xxx

[CC1981]

If it were a private investor, Ministry of Tourism/Commerce etc. doing this I would really welcome the move but in the present context other sports are getting shafted with a sport confined to the living rooms of the upper middle class.

Completely acceptable to me and i've said why that is so. If something that is making a crapload of money for Indian PEOPLE overshadows something that is essentially meaningless chest-thumping points, i'd take the first one 10 outta 10. Pride, nationalism, etc. are all very meaningless values in front of improvement of quality of lives.

[gorah_pindu]

Creation of wealth as opposed to spending of weath on iconography seems to be the confused issue here.

Lets lay out what we are trying to say in clear terms for Lurker: 1). If a person chooses to invest 300mn, you cant complain, cos its their money. 2). If a government chooses to invest 300mn taxpayer money in something which will certainly return that sum, you also cant complain. 3). It almost certainly will return that sum, because even Malaysia earns back the cost of F1 every couple of years. Having established that there is no possible reason to complain - lets explore added benefits: 4). The F1 track will bring millions in returns to India, and no matter who's pockets that ends up in, its a good thing if nobody else loses money. 5). As a matter of fact, poor people will get a significant share of that money anyway - thousands will be employed building the track and setting up F1 - thousands will be emplyed maintaining it - thousands will be employed and gain money through secondary job creation. Given this argument - is it any wonder that nobody is buying your argument Lurker? CC is perfectly right to say that you are not paying attention to anyone, beause if you were, the argument above would have appealed to your logic, and won.

[The Outsider]

2). If a government chooses to invest 300mn taxpayer money in something which will certainly return that sum, you also cant complain.

You one can and should if the money is coming out of the funds of the Sports Ministry and is doing nothing to enhance the sporting culture in the country for which the funds have been collected and earmarked.

[CC1981]

F1 tracks have one major advantage too : the inflow of technological expertise is just mindboggling for an engineer like me. The idea of the top mechanical, computer and electronics engineers along with the best aerodynamists outside of the military - 100s of them...gathering at one spot for a few days straight...that is one of the best recruitment opportunities/picking brains/tech-transfer spheres imaginable.And i can state without a shadow of doubt that the best aerodynamists & mechanical engineers/mechanics outside of military establishments work in F1. Hell, i wouldnt be surprised if Adrian Newey knew more about aerodynamics than people making the LCA.. The overall long-term effect of this on Indian industry is actually incalculable. And i dare say, no other 'sport' or event will see a gathering of such technically brilliant men in such numbers- hell, most high profile Stanford or MIT conferences fail to attract a fraction of people of that qualification level!

[Ram]

I am with Lurker on this one ! Its so easy to throw about figures in the air saying a F1 race brings $50 million , $60 million. But , these figures are hardly accurate and can be contested themselves. And the millions go to whom ? The poor people who work on the tracks ? The hotel guys ? I dont think so. Instead of investing a third of a billion dollars on a event that happens only once every year , we could build some industry , or some technical college so that thousands of educated graduates can come out of college and contribute to the economy for decades to some. Can anybody quantify that investment ? And Predator , I do not know what is your obsession with India coming up in the world of F1 or whatever. We are talking about people not having food to eat or a house to live. Go and try convincing them about the positive aspects of India in the world of F1

[gorah_pindu]

You one can and should if the money is coming out of the funds of the Sports Ministry and is doing nothing to enhance the sporting culture in the country for which the funds have been collected and earmarked.

Let me re-phrase it for the picky - you can but shouldnt. And thats ignoring the fact that F1 will benefit the sports community anyway.

[Lurker]

Let me state categorically so that there is no ambiguty

1). If a person chooses to invest 300mn, you cant complain, cos its their money.

If a person wishes to invest 300mn he should go talk to FICCI or NASSCOM and NOT Indian Olympic Committe.

2). If a government chooses to invest 300mn taxpayer money in something which will certainly return that sum, you also cant complain.

Show me a SINGLE LINE from the OP where it is the Government doing the investment.

3). It almost certainly will return that sum, because even Malaysia earns back the cost of F1 every couple of years.

Hypothetical. You are free to disagree.

4). The F1 track will bring millions in returns to India, and no matter who's pockets that ends up in, its a good thing if nobody else loses money.

Have mentioned it 200 times now that to me a Sports is no Sports if it rides on back of MONEY. And again if it is an Disney World sort of amusement park why does IOC gets involved in this cr@p?

5). As a matter of fact, poor people will get a significant share of that money anyway - thousands will be employed building the track and setting up F1 - thousands will be emplyed maintaining it - thousands will be employed and gain money through secondary job creation.

You are yet to answer how Mumbaikar have not become "rich" by cricket even though lot many more people are involved in doing secondary jobs.

Given this argument - is it any wonder that nobody is buying your argument Lurker? CC is perfectly right to say that you are not paying attention to anyone, beause if you were, the argument above would have appealed to your logic, and won.

All powers to you or CC or whoever. If arguments on MB always ended up with a WIN then world be an ideal place. FACT is discussions rarely end with a result and you know it. Regardless let me say once again that I am yet to see anything of note from you folks..except Money of course. xxxx

[CC1981]

But , these figures are hardly accurate and can be contested themselves.

Err..no they are not.

And the millions go to whom ? The poor people who work on the tracks ? The hotel guys ? I dont think so.

Yes, thats exactly to whom the money goes when 100s of thousands of tourists show up!

Instead of investing a third of a billion dollars on a event that happens only once every year , we could build some industry , or some technical college so that thousands of educated graduates can come out of college and contribute to the economy for decades to some. Can anybody quantify that investment ?

And can someone quantify the investment/technical gains done by the gathering of 100s of engineers of various field, who are literally in the top 0.0001% bracket in terms of skills and expertese ? Sure beats the pants off of any startup university!

We are talking about people not having food to eat or a house to live

And making an F1 track addresses that directly!

[gorah_pindu]

I am with Lurker on this one ! Its so easy to throw about figures in the air saying a F1 race brings $50 million , $60 million. But , these figures are hardly accurate and can be contested themselves. And the millions go to whom ? The poor people who work on the tracks ? The hotel guys ? I dont think so. Instead of investing a third of a billion dollars on a event that happens only once every year , we could build some industry , or some technical college so that thousands of educated graduates can come out of college and contribute to the economy for decades to some. Can anybody quantify that investment ? And Predator , I do not know what is your obsession with India coming up in the world of F1 or whatever. We are talking about people not having food to eat or a house to live. Go and try convincing them about the positive aspects of India in the world of F1

We have already covered this. Again, do I detect anti-rich snobbery? They dont have a right to earn if they are already rich, is that it? But even if that was the right attitude - see the 5 points I made above.

[Lurker]

Let me re-phrase it for the picky - you can but shouldnt. And thats ignoring the fact that F1 will benefit the sports community anyway.

GP. The wheel comes full circle now. Seems I have a few supporters. So what say you eh? Perhaps did a George Bush by suggesting "We have won" when there was no win? A lesson for future perhaps. Maybe take a leaf out of Geeta - Karam kiye jaa fal ki chinta mar kar aie insaan" xxx

[gorah_pindu]

Let me state categorically so that there is no ambiguty If a person wishes to invest 300mn he should go talk to FICCI or NASSCOM and NOT Indian Olympic Committe. Show me a SINGLE LINE from the OP where it is the Government doing the investment. Hypothetical. You are free to disagree. Have mentioned it 200 times now that to me a Sports is no Sports if it rides on back of MONEY. And again if it is an Disney World sort of amusement park why does IOC gets involved in this cr@p? You are yet to answer how Mumbaikar have not become "rich" by cricket even though lot many more people are involved in doing secondary jobs. All powers to you or CC or whoever. If arguments on MB always ended up with a WIN then world be an ideal place. FACT is discussions rarely end with a result and you know it. Regardless let me say once again that I am yet to see anything of note from you folks..except Money of course. xxxx

Wow! Those werent even replies! Goodbye - I think ive made my point, whether you can stomach it or not.

[Lurker]

But even if that was the right attitude - see the 5 points I made above.

And see my response to your 5 points. Getting a bit hot in here now GP eh what with more rebuttals..What happened to all those " Look ma I have so many peeps on my side". Respectfully suggest to refrain from it next time onwards as MB's are funny place mate. xxxx

[The Outsider]

Let me re-phrase it for the picky - you can but shouldnt. And thats ignoring the fact that F1 will benefit the sports community anyway.

How would F1 benefit sports in India? And why shouldn't one complain when money earmarked for one thing is being used for something else?

[gorah_pindu]

GP. The wheel comes full circle now. Seems I have a few supporters. So what say you eh? Perhaps did a George Bush by suggesting "We have won" when there was no win? A lesson for future perhaps. Maybe take a leaf out of Geeta - Karam kiye jaa fal ki chinta mar kar aie insaan" xxx

Read the post I made in reply to yours before gloating. I pointed out how people think your argument is absurd because you called mine that. No use now taking some snobbery high ground over a slip that YOU made.

[Lurker]

Wow! Those werent even replies! Goodbye - I think ive made my point, whether you can stomach it or not.

Alrighty mate if thats what you take it to be. I was quite clear but maybe not as clear as you wanted me to be. Regardless good discussion. Thanks for your time and for me its back to work for a bit(been here for an hour or so now). Cheers! xxx

[gorah_pindu]

How would F1 benefit sports in India? And why shouldn't one complain when money earmarked for one thing is being used for something else?

If it creates more money to be earmarked for the same things - then by what logic does it matter?

[Predator_05]

I don't quite see it that way. China has been not seen OVERNIGHT basketball boom. From what I recall they have always been good at it, specially on Asian circuit level. Since the 1982 Asian games(MUCH BEFORE Yao Ming phenomenon) China has been in Basketballs finals(mens) EVERY time! That is they have been in 7 successive finals. They have won it 4 times and come 2nd 3 times. So you can put 2 and 2 together on whether NBA launched Chinese Basketball or did NBA merely exploit it? How can you compare it with India which has won nothing in past 40 years? Here is the link if you are interested. http://www.doha-2006.com/gis/menuroot/sports/Basketball_HR.aspx-id=BK.html

That is my point. They were one of the best, but in the global scheme of things they were nowhere before Yao. Much in the same way India has produced a Formula 1 racer in Narain, and is therefore the best racing country in Asia after Japan. See the similarity ? That goes out to show that there is distinguishable talent in these parts of the world, and the big sports establishments such as the NBA and now F1, have taken notice. It's obvious that if a major sporting establishment has a presence in some country, the popularity in that particular sport will automatically see an increase. The rise in popularity of a sport can result in the creation of a sportsman who can represent the country. The NBA accelerated China's development in the sport and exploited the potential interest that was noticeable in that market. F1 can achieve the same with India. All your criticism regarding the prospect of F1 in India could be aimed at China pre-Yao as well, but 4 years on we are seeing the Chinese reap the benefits of the NBA's investment there. The China-NBA example is merely one of many. I am just saying that there is no reason why the same results can't be observed in India. Can you give me a reason why India is so different ?

My logic is simply based on how many people play basketball. Most of us, if not all, have played basketball in school/colleges. It is obvious that we have a bit of knowledge about the game and this is seen specially when Indians come to USA. xxx

There is a difference between playing and watching. Sure, kids may play basketball just like they play kabbadi - but they don't spare time to watch the NBA do they ? You can't say the same about F1, which has a more than viable viewership and a genuine fan base - as evidenced by the stats i provided you with before

[Lurker]

Read the post I made in reply to yours before gloating. I pointed out how people think your argument is absurd because you called mine that. No use now taking some snobbery high ground over a slip that YOU made.

Take it easy mate. I am not one of those who gloat. Just wanted to give it to you the way you were dissing it to me. Seems like you have one rule for yourself and second set of rules for others. No worries anyway. Take it easy lets hope for a better discussion next time, Cheers! xxx

[Ram]

Err..no they are not. Yes they can be.. NOBODY can come forward and confidently say what was the economic impact of a major sporting event. Yes, thats exactly to whom the money goes when 100s of thousands of tourists show up! Oh really ? for how many days ? 3 days a year ? Then what about the rest of the 362 days ? And can someone quantify the investment/technical gains done by the gathering of 100s of engineers of various field, who are literally in the top 0.0001% bracket in terms of skills and expertese ? Sure beats the pants off of any startup university! Absoutely marvellous idea ! Though i would first rather build some roads , bridges , and houses , water, sanitation , electricty , schools ( ie. things that you take for granted in your life) before thinking of bringing some top engineering talent into the country And making an F1 track addresses that directly! You are yet to prove in clear terms of how it does !