CC1981 Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Thats THE most pessimistic thing i have seen in my life.. What you call pessimism, i see as the inevitable conclusion of India today..maybe its the control systems analyst in me that always extrapolates the situation tomorrow from the data today...but i can see it no other way and if you think i am the least bit happy about it- i am NOT! You think it makes me happy to live in a time and era, knowing that unless a MIRACLE happens, i am seeing the last days of a glorious civilization before it finally kills itself off by irresponsible and narrow-minded behaviour ? I take not the slightest pleasure in knowing that i am witnessing the last march of the Ents...the last gasp of breath from the dying mother. :sad_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 The Roman, Egyptian and Grecian empires have all dissolved in the inexorable passage of time, There is something in this land of ours that makes us indestructible, We have braved the odds, the infidelity of foes for generations past, But it is still in Hindustan to remain the most hallowed nation on earth. Wow ! awesome ! Here.. enjoy this guys ! xInoa1_tYxk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 But see. we are expecting lot of things sitting in the developed countries like US' date=' UK and Aus. In the similar conditions many countries are way far behind. With so much population and poverty, illiteracy we have achieved lot in last 2 decades. Dont you all think so??[/quote'] Indeed we have. In the past 2 decades we have become a debt-giver rather than a debt-receiver country. That one statement itself should tell you that the wheel has come full circle. The poverty rate is steeply declining and specially in certain parts of the country the decline is very pronounced. I do not have the latest data with me but if I have to fathom a guess the poverty rate has come down from say 40-50% in mid yo late 80s to about 20-25% now. That leaves a large segment still in extremely bad situation but uplifting 500 million people, or more, takes a lot of time. We are self-sufficient in Agriculture, the impact of India is felt in American election where atleast for past 2 elections it merits more than a mere mention and by most Western accounts(not Indian mind you) India is one of the economies to watch for. I only hope that we do not blindly ape the West and somehow preserve our own culture. If we can do that that would be fantastic but yeah overall we have done quite good though we need to do lot more obviously. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Lets also mention China in the same line...the ONLY ancient civilization apart from India to have survived continuously... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Talking of Iqbal, here's a prayer of his I came across recently. It'll move you to tears. lrRsI0G32JE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Beautiful piece Dhondy. Very nice wordings and amazing soothing voice. One of the real tragedy of partition has been how Urdu has taken hit. Not only the language has taken a big hit in India and perhaps slowly dying a death in the very land it was conceived, but also majority of Indians are quite incoversant with great Urdu scholars like Iqbal and Faiz, two of the best scholars South Asia has produced. One more thing I would like to say it the amazing vitality of India. This dua I had heard a longgg time back in school, perhaps in a Annual Function or something. Now that I think about it the morning assembly in my school had Christian prayers, Hindu hyms and Muslim duas. Here are a few sample. Christian prayers: Our father in heaven Holy be thy name. Hindu prayer: Hum ko man ki shakti dena, man vijay karein Doosron ki jai se pahle khud ko jai karein Muslim Dua: Aie maalik tere bande hum, aise ho hamaare karam Neki par chalein aur badi se darein taaki hanste huye nikale dam (The latter two were in Hindi movies Guddi & Do Aankhein Barah Haath, a commentary on how movies have become detached from values like that). Indian family/students/parents never complained about a Christian value inculcated in their kids, and that tolerance/ability to imbibe others's values is what really makes Indian stand out with rest of the region, even world for that matter. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Agree. Urdu is such a beautiful, lyrical language. No wonder IK Gujral composed in it. After hearing that video, can anybody not be moved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 (The latter two were in Hindi movies Guddi & Do Aankhein Barah Haath, a commentary on how movies have become detached from values like that). Indian family/students/parents never complained about a Christian value inculcated in their kids, and that tolerance/ability to imbibe others's values is what really makes Indian stand out with rest of the region, even world for that matter. That's very well said, Lurker. Our tolerance, by and large, has always been one of our greatest strengths. The filmmakers, the teachers, our elders have always tought us the supremacy of the motherland and the need to subjugate narrower entities such as faith, language, province etc to that. Profoundly true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Here's that prayer in Hindi that Lurker mentioned.1RLOuiX6_6A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 And here's the Urdu prayer. QZfFwRtEnv0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Just listening to the second one again. It's a mixture of Urdu and Hindi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Yep thats the one Dhondy. :thumbs_up: Speaking of Urdu, I beleive the problem started when during Partition it was highlighted by certain section that Hindus and Muslims were "different". The culture was different, Gods were different, heck the language was different too. And Urdu bore the brunt of it in India, as Hindi did in Pakistan. Today if a state in India so much as makes 2nd state language it is deemed as political motive(most of the times it is true as well). If you look at Hindi movie scenario you would be surprised how huge an influence Urdu has. Most great lyricist have been Urdu exponents - Shakeel Badayuni, Sahir Ludhianvi, Majrooh, Kaifi, Shailendra or the recent greats like Gulzaar and Javed Akhtar. There are very rare lyricist who wrote exclusively in Hindi, people like Neeraj and Yogesh though Indeevar also managed some gems from time to time. In the end Hindi music has benefitted tremendously from both Hindi and Urdu, which in my opinion are one and the same language anyway. By the way IK Gujral was one scholar politician. Maybe not the best when it came to Administration but surely the kind of politician we wished were more in the country. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Just listening to the second one again. It's a mixture of Urdu and Hindi. Yes it is Dhondy. But if you think about it this is more Islamic and Hindu. This concept of "Maalik-banda"(akin to master-servant) is more an Islamic concept than a Hindu concept where Gods are often considered as Father(or Mother) and humans as kids. The relationship is more a Maan-Baccha than a Maalik-banda as is the base of this song. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Brilliant clips both, Lurker, particularly the first one. Thanks for pointing them out. Will try and post Saare Jahan Se Achha to round things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Yes Iqbaal did pen those poems but he also has the credit of being Muffkir-e-pakistan and may be answer of the question to Jinnah's change of heart upto som extent lies with his close correspondence with Iqbaal in later part of his political career... Btw another of Iqbaal's beautiful lines Hai raam ke wazood se hindostan ko naaz ahale-nazar samajahte hain inko immam-e-hind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Yes Iqbaal did pen those poems but he also has the credit of being Muffkir-e-pakistan and may be answer of the question to Jinnah's change of heart upto som extent lies with his close correspondence with Iqbaal in later part of his political career... Btw another of Iqbaal's beautiful lines Hai raam ke wazood se hindostan ko naaz ahale-nazar samajahte hain inko immam-e-hind Irrelevant. An amazing poet, thats what he's being given credit for and we should celebrate that aspect of his. Praising a muslim seems out of your vocabulary without attaching some reservations or qualifier. Sick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Yup, don't care. He thought of Pakistan as his home. So fukcing what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varun Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 What you call pessimism, i see as the inevitable conclusion of India today..maybe its the control systems analyst in me that always extrapolates the situation tomorrow from the data today...but i can see it no other way and if you think i am the least bit happy about it- i am NOT! You think it makes me happy to live in a time and era, knowing that unless a MIRACLE happens, i am seeing the last days of a glorious civilization before it finally kills itself off by irresponsible and narrow-minded behaviour ? I take not the slightest pleasure in knowing that i am witnessing the last march of the Ents...the last gasp of breath from the dying mother. :sad_smile: :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: Kill me .. Kill me now !! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaurav Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 CC makes a valid point. We choose to look at 5% of India. Rest of India is going downhill. Our population will and is dragging us down. There is a reason why all of you are not living in India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 CC makes a valid point. We choose to look at 5% of India. Rest of India is going downhill. Our population will and is dragging us down. There is a reason why all of you are not living in India. there is another big enuf reason why many more are migrating bak to india, Gai.... it is just some of us came in at a much earlier age and are rooted more in other countries to due to family ties/friends/business/properties, it is difficult to uproot bak... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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