Champions League 2011

[BeautifulGame]

Still believing United have a better team than Bayern? If so U will be deluding yurselves then.

[daryl1985]

Still believing United have a better team than Bayern? U will be deluding ypurselves then.

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: Was waiting for that.

[Andy]

Ummm How many CLs have the teams from BPL won in comparision to teams from La Liga,Serie A???

Even Nottingham Forest have two European Cups. Dominating Europe may make a Club greater or the greatest but not the League, is that too difficult to get past your Pea sized brain?

How many FIFA player of the year have BPL players won?

Once again, stupid question, Football is a team Game. Not an Individual Sport. Stick to Kirkut.

BPL is all British media........los of money lots of glamour.......some quality.......but not the best....If you start rating clubs according to the nos. of CL they have won........EPL teams will not be in top 3 i presume.

I didnt get it, BPL teams have fans all over the world compared to other leagues and Players too. Its a Global league in true sense. And about Money we all know where all money in European Football is.

Also some one said that EPL/BPL is more competitive........competition is not on paper but on performance.........how many Europa Cup/UEFA cup..........the 2nd level of competition in Europe have BPL teams won?????Playing with each other is a different thing than playing in Europe.......which is why a BPL team has won only 3 CLs in last 20 years.........

Of course BPL is more competitive because the teams representing BPL perform better than other set of teams that represent other leagues. In Europe in last 10 years it has been all Madrid and Barcelona from La Liga. From BPL you have 4 teams each year well almost going past Quarters. About UEFA Cup, Liverpool, AC Milan and many big clubs have failed in UEFA Cup recently, speaks a lot who takes them seriously. UEFA cup is a 2nd grade competition where only early eliminated teams from CL dominate [ As they have nothing to lose] - And those who play every Year . In Serie A and La liga the teams get an advantage of playing 2nd 11 Mostly which teams DO NOT in BPL as it is very much competitive and the top 6-7 teams aim to finish in Top 4 to play CL. If UEFA Cup was that Important we could have seen Top clubs performing well in that competition. Its just that other than some smaller clubs no one takes it seriously. Some time back even Middlebrough finished a UEFA Cup finalist, doesnt mean they are good enough compared to other UEFA cup teams that represent BPL.

[Andy]

Still believing United have a better team than Bayern? If so U will be deluding yurselves then.

You seem to be a thick headed guy who never got the point I passed . Good team is not measured on paper, Its the performance that Counts. Currently if you talk on Paper then even Spurs look a better team than United. And measuring that United shouldnt even be playing top 8 teams in Euorpe. I wonder if United were so bad, how did they made to the European Finals and won the BPL last year. I mean any Top Club have a better first team than United ATM. But we all know when it comes to the top 4 who makes it.

[daryl1985]

You seem to be a thick headed guy who never got the point I passed . Good team is not measured on paper, Its the performance that Counts. Currently if you talk on Paper then even Spurs look a better team than United. And measuring that United shouldnt even be playing top 8 teams in Euorpe. I wonder if United were so bad, how did they made to the European Finals and won the BPL last year. I mean any Top Club have a better first team than United ATM. But we all know when it comes to the top 4 who makes it.

Last year was the lowest quality title race i have ever seen. Every team was average. The least bad team won the league. Chelsea completely blew it in my opinion, they should have easily won the league but had a melt down. You got to the CL final because Real and Barca were on the same side of the draw. I agree teams are not measured on paper.

[Andy]

Last year was the lowest quality title race i have ever seen. Every team was average. The least bad team won the league. Chelsea completely blew it in my opinion, they should have easily won the league but had a melt down. You got to the CL final because Real and Barca were on the same side of the draw. I agree teams are not measured on paper.

I agree about the Title race, You mention about Real, how about Other teams? There were many teams who were better than United on Paper. In fact every year there are some favorites who fail and some Surprise packages. Thats how Football is. Even if you talk about Madrid given the team they have if not beat Barca they should have competed or compete shoulder to shoulder with Barca which has not been the case. In the CL Final we competed with Barca even till the end of First half, had we played Madrid we could have done better than we did against Barca am sure. We reached the CL Final to our credit being the 2nd best team. People should question it only if they or their team do better than us this year.. Beat us and Earn the bragging right.

[BeautifulGame]

You seem to be a thick headed guy who never got the point I passed . Good team is not measured on paper, Its the performance that Counts. Currently if you talk on Paper then even Spurs look a better team than United. And measuring that United shouldnt even be playing top 8 teams in Euorpe. I wonder if United were so bad, how did they made to the European Finals and won the BPL last year. I mean any Top Club have a better first team than United ATM. But we all know when it comes to the top 4 who makes it.

U keep deluding yourselves. Its not i am thick headed its just that u dont see any performances apart from when United win. Bayern played off park the same City that thrashed United in CL few weeks ago.That doesnt count as performance then?How is this measuring strengths on paper? Do u even understand that term? Who cares about who makes top4 or winning the league? We are talking about CL knock outs. Ur problem is u dont understand the big difference btw CL knock out matches which are one off and winning league. United still have a strong squad and will be there and probably still win the league regardless of this result against City.But that doesnt count an iota in CL. Care to mention a single team that has won CL in the past without a top quality CM / AM ? U cant.United dont have that now.Heck even Newcastle have a better CM than United at the moment. Regardless of how u want to delude urself as long as United dont fix their midfield troubles they will face same troubles they faced against City when they play strong teams in CL. Oh and Bayern have a better team than United just like City having better team than United.Anyone who isnt thick headed can see that but i very much doubt u could though.

[BeautifulGame]

Even if you talk about Madrid given the team they have if not beat Barca they should have competed or compete shoulder to shoulder with Barca which has not been the case. In the CL Final we competed with Barca even till the end of First half, had we played Madrid we could have done better than we did against Barca am sure.

:hysterical: Madrid competed easily better than United did against Barca

[Andy]

:hysterical: Madrid competed easily better than United did against Barca

5-0? :hahaha:United have played Barca 3 times in 4 seasons. Still Barca havent Managed 5 goals past United.

[Andy]

Bayern played off park the same City that thrashed United in CL few weeks ago.That doesnt count as performance then?How is this measuring strengths on paper? Do u even understand that term?

Did you even watch the game? Scoreline suggests we were Thrashed, But 5 goals were scored after evans was sent off. Do check how many chances were created before that. And QPR beaten Chelsea last sunday, if some small club thrashes QPR next time they meet doesnt make them a better team than Chelsea? Or is it? Its just one game FFS. One game doesnt change anything.

Who cares about who makes top4 or winning the league? We are talking about CL knock outs.

Top 4 of Champions League. Not PL, We were in the TOP 2 of CL last year.

Ur problem is u dont understand the big difference btw CL knock out matches which are one off and winning league.

Your problem is you play too much of Football Manager or Fifa Manager or Fifa 12. You take teams on paper way too seriously. We havent even played at Europe this season in the Knock outs and you are drawing lines about how bad we are. You have an United bias lets accept that and Of course you read too much in to Team sheet .

United still have a strong squad and will be there and probably still win the league regardless of this result against City.But that doesnt count an iota in CL.

Did I say United will win the CL? My point is if you go by your opinion of reading too much into strengths on Paper United is not going to feature in the TOP 8 this years CL.

Care to mention a single team that has won CL in the past without a top quality CM / AM ? U cant.United dont have that now.Heck even Newcastle have a better CM than United at the moment.

Show me one post where I claimed United to WIN the CL then we'll talk. The point is putting in an Impressive performance in the CL. I 'd be happy with a Top 4 finish in CL but even that looks difficult now.

Regardless of how u want to delude urself as long as United dont fix their midfield troubles they will face same troubles they faced against City when they play strong teams in CL.

I disagree, United were poor overall, Not just in the Midfield against City. In fact our deefnce was the worst part.

Oh and Bayern have a better team than United just like City having better team than United.Anyone who isnt thick headed can see that but i very much doubt u could though.

So were Chelsea, Bayern Munich, Inter, Madrid last year. Teams on paper means a Big Zilch.

[BeautifulGame]

5-0? :hahaha:United have played Barca 3 times in 4 seasons. Still Barca havent Managed 5 goals past United.

Thats ur problem.U are way too biased towards United. Last 6 games Barca played Madrid Barca won 2 Madrid won 1 and 2 draws.They drew at Nou camp and beaten them in a final and were the better team in both draws. Yes they were thrashed the first time in Nou camp but since then they have improved hugely and competed against Barca better than anyone else. Whats United's record against Guardiola's Barca.2 thrashing isnt it? Care to explain how United fared better against Barca than Madrid considering they have even beaten Barca recently.Infact they are the only team to Guardiola's Barca in a final let alone competing which no one else managed. But i am sure u would still believe Madrid never competed against Barca despite drawing in Nou Camp and beating them in a final :hysterical:

[Andy]

Thats ur problem.U are way too biased towards United.

I think Its other way round for you.

Last 6 games Barca played Madrid Barca won 2 Madrid won 1 and 2 draws.They drew at Nou camp and beaten them in a final and were the better team in both draws. Yes they were thrashed the first time in Nou camp but since then they have improved hugely and competed against Barca better than anyone else.

Look at how frequently they play each other. More than 4 games a year? Here United met Barca for the 2nd time in 3 years.

Whats United's record against Guardiola's Barca.2 thrashing isnt it?

If you call winning games by 2 goals a Trashing what do you call winning games by 5 goals? Rape?

Care to explain how United fared better against Barca than Madrid considering they have even beaten Barca recently.Infact they are the only team to Guardiola's Barca in a final let alone competing which no one else managed.

United played Barca two times in last three years. And now compare how many times Madrid have played them. If you include last 4 meetings Between United and Barca you'll find one Win, One draw and two losses for United. And with United , Barca have played mostly high profile fixtures, with Madrid there have been some Domestic cup finals too. Madrid havent done well against Barca in high profile games that is League and CL games. Given the amount they spent they should. Its nothing to brag about, Its rather surprising.

But i am sure u would still believe Madrid never competed against Barca despite drawing in Nou Camp and beating them in a final :hysterical:

And I am sure you'd be taking Super Copa games to be of same importance as League or CL games. :hysterical: And compare them to two games United played Barca.

[BeautifulGame]

Did you even watch the game? Scoreline suggests we were Thrashed, But 5 goals were scored after evans was sent off. Do check how many chances were created before that. And QPR beaten Chelsea last sunday, if some small club thrashes QPR next time they meet doesnt make them a better team than Chelsea? Or is it? Its just one game FFS. One game doesnt change anything.

So 6-1 is no thrashing :hysterical: Ya losing 1-0 in just a league game and losing 6-1 to ur arch rivals in ur 2nd most important game of the season are exactly the same:hysterical:

Your problem is you play too much of Football Manager or Fifa Manager or Fifa 12. You take teams on paper way too seriously. We havent even played at Europe this season in the Knock outs and you are drawing lines about how bad we are. You have an United bias lets accept that and Of course you read too much in to Team sheet .

U simply dont get it do u? Bayern have showed how good they are by beating the best team in PL at the moment.They are one of the most inform teams in Europe at the moment.They reached a CL final a season ago.They have sorted their last season issues(defence) and look far stronger whereas United have failed to address their issues unlike Bayern (Midfield).Hence i believe Bayern are better.I believed United were a better team than Bayern last year despite Bayern reaching CL final the year before.These are not based on paper.Just common sense

Did I say United will win the CL? My point is if you go by your opinion of reading too much into strengths on Paper United is not going to feature in the TOP 8 this years CL.

How is reading into paper means they wont finish in Top 8 this year? Only Barca , Madrid and Bayern and city have better teams on paper.But City dont have experience so on paper United are atleast 4 best on Paper. U could bet ur bottom dollar United would finish in top 8.Care to explain how United dont have Top team on paper?

I disagree, United were poor overall, Not just in the Midfield against City. In fact our deefnce was the worst part.

The problem with the defence is Evra has been in decline since returning from world cup and Ferdinand has ben in steady decline for nearly couple of years.But u still have Vidic the best defender in the world and Di silva still to return and when that happens it will still be one of the best in the world. Whereas midfield is still the average one for nearly 3 years and u have no one who is exactly waiting to push it to next level.Honestly there are atleast 4 midfields better than united in the league itself. Put it this way defence wins u leagues but midfield wins u CL. Thats why Milan despite not winning the Seria A won the CL twice last decade in 7 years.

[BeautifulGame]

I think Its other way round for you.

No

Look at how frequently they play each other. More than 4 games a year? Here United met Barca for the 2nd time in 3 years.

missing the point again? Not surprising .

If you call winning games by 2 goals a Trashing what do you call winning games by 5 goals? Rape?

Well Ferguson atleast agrees with me.He said Barca gave United a lesson in CL final.

United played Barca two times in last three years. And now compare how many times Madrid have played them. If you include last 4 meetings Between United and Barca you'll find one Win, One draw and two losses for United. And with United , Barca have played mostly high profile fixtures, with Madrid there have been some Domestic cup finals too. Madrid havent done well against Barca in high profile games that is League and CL games. Given the amount they spent they should. Its nothing to brag about, Its rather surprising.

The one win and draw came for United against a different Barca side.Ofcourse u wont mention it to suit ur argument do u? Fact: Madrid have competed and even beaten one of the best teams in history.Have United done that against this barca? Then how exactly do u think United will perform better against Barca than Madrid based on performances against them?

And I am sure you'd be taking Super Copa games to be of same importance as League or CL games. :hysterical: And compare them to two games United played Barca.

They draw against Barca in nou camp in CL.Beat them in copa del ray and drew them in the league in Bernabau. United were thrashed by the Barca team.They will simply do the same to United again because u dont have a decent midfield.

[Andy]

So 6-1 is no thrashing :hysterical: Ya losing 1-0 in just a league game and losing 6-1 to ur arch rivals in ur 2nd most important game of the season are exactly the same:hysterical:

You simply didnt get my Point, Not that you were getting before. City were helped by the fact that Evans was sent off. They surely would have won. But couldnt have score more than 3 goals had we played with 11 men.

U simply dont get it do u? Bayern have showed how good they are by beating the best team in PL at the moment.They are one of the most inform teams in Europe at the moment.They reached a CL final a season ago.They have sorted their last season issues(defence) and look far stronger whereas United have failed to address their issues unlike Bayern (Midfield).Hence i believe Bayern are better.I believed United were a better team than Bayern last year despite Bayern reaching CL final the year before.These are not based on paper.Just common sense

Well I say it again, Group Stages , Early fixtures do matter, But not that much I would go on to say X will perform better than Y. But If you say currently Bayern are a better team, Better form I would agree. Not that United will play the same way they are now once we are into January. If You follow United you'd know every year we start off poorly and pick up from December. Dont you? We were 8th in the League table last year, same time. With the squad United have right now any top Club should finish ahead of United. But there is a massive difference between 'Will' and 'Should'

How is reading into paper means they wont finish in Top 8 this year? Only Barca , Madrid and Bayern and city have better teams on paper.But City dont have experience so on paper United are atleast 4 best on Paper. U could bet ur bottom dollar United would finish in top 8.Care to explain how United dont have Top team on paper?

Chelsea have a better Midfield, Milan have a better defence and forward Line. Inter are a good side too. Napoli drew with City, You cannot discount them. Not sure how well Villareal may do. May be you can explain us better on their chances.

The problem with the defence is Evra has been in decline since returning from world cup and Ferdinand has ben in steady decline for nearly couple of years.But u still have Vidic the best defender in the world and Di silva still to return and when that happens it will still be one of the best in the world.

You mean Rafael? And United's defense would be the best in the world with Only Vidic in form? Jones do not have any CL experience might get exposed.

Whereas midfield is still the average one for nearly 3 years and u have no one who is exactly waiting to push it to next level.Honestly there are atleast 4 midfields better than united in the league itself. Put it this way defence wins u leagues but midfield wins u CL. Thats why Milan despite not winning the Seria A won the CL twice last decade in 7 years.

How do you look at Fletcher? And Cleverley? Not saying they are good enough to compete with Top Dogs, But how do you see them doing this season? Fletcher's goal against City was great.

[Andy]

No

Well Opinions. I feel you have a bias against United, even ready give points to Oil Money City.

The one win and draw came for United against a different Barca side.Ofcourse u wont mention it to suit ur argument do u?

Yes performance wise, But almost same team that beat United next year. Correct me If I am wrong.

Fact: Madrid have competed and even beaten one of the best teams in history.Have United done that against this barca?

Let United play them more often, we did beat them in a Friendly though LOL. I wont take Copa Del Rey seriously, Did Madrid beat Barca in league or CL?

Then how exactly do u think United will perform better against Barca than Madrid based on performances against them?

Two performances is all you have, If United were playing them that frequently We would have done better. 'Better' I mean, Not that we'll start beating Barca with this team.

They draw against Barca in nou camp in CL.Beat them in copa del ray and drew them in the league in Bernabau. United were thrashed by the Barca team.They will simply do the same to United again because u dont have a decent midfield.

That story on Mid field is true, I agree.

[BeautifulGame]

You simply didnt get my Point, Not that you were getting before. City were helped by the fact that Evans was sent off. They surely would have won. But couldnt have score more than 3 goals had we played with 11 men.

U dont concede 6 goals just because u had a man sent off.United have been reduced to 10 men plenty of times before but did they lose like this? No United would have fare much better if they had had a DM to stop those counter attacks of City.United hardly created any pressure on City in the CM when City went 1-0 up because Anderson couldnt retain possesion.A quality mdifelder like Silva would have done that.Scholes at his best would have done that and put pressure on city. Its not just defense fell apart suddenly.It started from United unable to retain posession in midfield when pressured by City midfield.

Well I say it again, Group Stages , Early fixtures do matter, But not that much I would go on to say X will perform better than Y. But If you say currently Bayern are a better team, Better form I would agree. Not that United will play the same way they are now once we are into January. If You follow United you'd know every year we start off poorly and pick up from December. Dont you?

Regardless of the form United will be in January they will have the same problem they had against City and Barca when they face strong teams.Their midfield isnt good enough. I am not saying United wont win but Bayern will have better chance imo.Mainly because knock out matches are often decided by midfield battles. I repeat again i not saying United will certainly lose against Bayern or Madrid but they both will be favourites IMO.

We were 8th in the League table last year, same time. With the squad United have right now any top Club should finish ahead of United. But there is a massive difference between 'Will' and 'Should'

U are confusing with form and strength on paper. United were struggling for form last year but they had the top 2 best squads in the league.Just like now too.

Chelsea have a better Midfield, Milan have a better defence and forward Line. Inter are a good side too. Napoli drew with City, You cannot discount them. Not sure how well Villareal may do. May be you can explain us better on their chances.

Chelsea may have better midfield than United but they hardly have high quality midfield to outplay united comfortably.Ofcourse i am basing this on Essien's last 2 years form.United have both better attack and defense. Inter are nowhere near the team they were 2 years ago.United attack is better than AC milan considering how much Ibra flops in CL.And Milan have the worst midfield of any top team in Europe seriously.Napoli are a good team but no where near United. Both Madrid and Bayern have quality attack and defence just like United.But United dont have quality in midfield anywhere near these 2 teams.thats why i think they have better teams.Both Bayern and Madrid have genuinely world class experienced midfielders. Its not for nothing Fergie desperately chased Sniejder.He would have made a world of difference imo

You mean Rafael? And United's defense would be the best in the world with Only Vidic in form? Jones do not have any CL experience might get exposed.

I rate Fabio lot more than Rafel tbh.Fabio is lot better defensively i think he will replace Evra soon atleast in my view. And i didnt say United defense would be the best but one of the best.A vidic and Smalling partnership would still be high quality imo.

How do you look at Fletcher? And Cleverley? Fletcher's goal against City was great.

Fletcher is quite underrated imo.But he more of a box to box than DM.And Cleverly has hardly played enough to make an opinion.

Not saying they are good enough to compete with Top Dogs, But how do you see them doing this season?

As i said United are still one of the best in the world.Will be in Semis depending on the draw. But with all due respect i dont think they have the team to win whereas i believe both Madrid and Bayern have the team to win it.They are the only two teams that have the midfield to compete with Barca imo. Ofcourse these are just my opinion and i may end up with egg on face at the end of the season but till then i will stick with what i believe. Either way i am off to bed too late in the night.Good chatting with u no hard feelings bro.Apologies for any hard words used in the heat of the moment:two_thumbs_up:

[Andy]

Agreed on all the points apart from the one where you said United would have conceded 6 even if they had 11 men. I dont think so. Yes United have played 10 men many a times, but not against a team that is equal to or better than City. I bet City wont have scored more than 3. Community Shield would give us some picture.

[Andy]

And I have a question for you to answer when you return back. How did we not win CL other than the 1999 , when we had scholes and Keane in the midfield, in fact our performance at Europe was not Good enough. And how did we win CL in 2008 when many teams had better midfield than us.

[daryl1985]

And I have a question for you to answer when you return back. How did we not win CL other than the 1999 , when we had scholes and Keane in the midfield, in fact our performance at Europe was not Good enough. And how did we win CL in 2008 when many teams had better midfield than us.

In 2008 you had Cristiano Ronaldo who was in my opinion the best player in the world at that time. Also, your defence was excellent. Barca and Real were not very good then.