Kapil wants BCCI to end club vs country debate and blasts Tendulkar 100th ton hype

[CSK Fan]

Tells me that you have already conceded ke bhagwan-ji stats vis a vis win-loss is not gonna improve anytime soon. Thank you for making Kapil Dev's point...even if you are too proud to admit it :winky:

I dont see any meaning in stats which put players like Langer above the likes of Lara, Sachin, Dravid, Kallis. Do you?

[akshayxyz]

I dont see any meaning in stats which put players like Langer above the likes of Lara' date=' Sachin, Dravid, Kallis. Do you?[/quote'] Come on, do not destroy their toy.

[Lurker]

I dont see any meaning in stats which put players like Langer above the likes of Lara' date=' Sachin, Dravid, Kallis. Do you?[/quote'] Actually I see little meaning in stats by and large. :giggle: As they say 75% of the stats are made on the spot..unless you are Ananth Narayan in which case it is 85%. My point, and I beleive this is where Kapil is coming from too, is that we have had enough of personal stats, 99 centuries, so many triple centuries, 4th innings runs galore. How come our overall stats still sucks so gloriously? Maybe fans, and media, should concentrate on how poorly we come across on that front?

[Lurker]

I don't understand why criticism of Kapil's comments is taken as criticism of Kapil as a player. I would say Kapil went overboard in these comments, he should have stoped short of mentioning point related to how many centuries in win. Because cricket is a team game and secondly his own record is even poorer.

Actually if you follow the thread there is little criticism of Kapil the spokesman and more of Kapil the player, the personality, his looks, the underwear he wore and the moja he made SRT wear.

But when I am criticising his comments, I won't doubt his credentials as a player and his contribution in growth of cricket in India. His would be first name when I put an all time indian XI. If you judge a player by comments that he makes in media, than I think Bishen Singh Bedi shouldn't have been allowed to play even Ranji Trophy.

You are my new hero :hatsoff: :hatsoff::--D:--D

[akshayxyz]

Actually I see little meaning in stats by and large. :giggle: As they say 75% of the stats are made on the spot..unless you are Ananth Narayan in which case it is 85%. My point, and I beleive this is where Kapil is coming from too, is that we have had enough of personal stats, 99 centuries, so many triple centuries, 4th innings runs galore. How come our overall stats still sucks so gloriously? Maybe fans, and media, should concentrate on how poorly we come across on that front?

Individual stats are measure of individual skills, performance. People like to do that comparison to rank players as put against others. Team stats are measure of team performance and also reflection of overall state of the particular sports in the country and its standing at world level. To assess an individual based on team stats is nonsensical to say the least.

[Lurker]

Individual stats are measure of individual skills, performance. People like to do that comparison to rank players as put against others. Team stats are measure of team performance and also reflection of overall state of the particular sports in the country and its standing at world level. To assess an individual based on team stats is nonsensical to say the least.

Thats one way to look at it I suppose. Other is to realize that we suck so gloriously in terms of sporting glory that we can hang on to whatever success we can get. And if somebody suggests we need to break that mindset we go after him for dissing the bhagwanji. :--D

[punjabi_khota]

Kapil dev is a sentimental banda..bura mat mano uski baaton ka...

[ganeshran]

Thats one way to look at it I suppose. Other is to realize that we suck so gloriously in terms of sporting glory that we can hang on to whatever success we can get. And if somebody suggests we need to break that mindset we go after him for dissing the bhagwanji. :--D

No one denied the importance of team results. They are the most important thing in cricket. However one individual cannot be blamed if the entire team does poorly. The argument starts when people blame Sachin for the poor record of Team India, which makes no sense given the fact that there are 10 other players in the team who have to perform in their respective departments in order for the team to win.

[akshayxyz]

Thats one way to look at it I suppose. Other is to realize that we suck so gloriously in terms of sporting glory that we can hang on to whatever success we can get. And if somebody suggests we need to break that mindset we go after him for dissing the bhagwanji. :--D

But there is not much wrong in it. Back in 80s Kapil's and Gavaskar's individual brilliance inspired the next generation. e.g. SRT's idol was Gavaskar. And not long time back - SRT's outstanding performance as an individual (despite the not so great team stats) inspired the next generation - ask Sehwag, Kohli, Yuvi, MSD, and many others.... and we can see the result - WC2011 win. You can't measure the contribution/impact of once-in-a-lifetime greats just by their individual stats or the %of appearances in won matches. and that applies to all these - Gavaskar, Kapil, SRT and few more.

[Raghav_12]

Actually if you follow the thread there is little criticism of Kapil the spokesman and more of Kapil the player' date=' the personality, his looks, the underwear he wore and the [i']moja he made SRT wear. You are my new hero :hatsoff: :hatsoff::--D:--D

Well this- putting Kapil as first name for all time Indian X1- is mainly because of non-availability of any other player from Indian cricketing history who can play the role which Kapil can play in a XI. At the same time, if I have to put together an all time world XI- i'll definitely include Sachin in that but Kapil will get the miss. It's all about relative importance of different players in different set-ups as you say marginal utility in economics terms.

[Pagalpanti]

Over the years? F*kc dude improve on comprehensive skills. IPL has been around for a few years only, Sachin well he has been playing since WW II lol. Let me type my response in simple points this time so you understand better? BCCI controls both IPL and Test team of India. Everybody(including SRT) plays IPL for money, plain and simple. Nobody plays it for love of cricket. Most cricket players want to play Test cricket for the love of the game and ultimate test. Folks like Yuvraj Singh keep on doing rona-dhona every other month talking about it. If money is the driver BCCI can bump the renumeration of Test cricket so players make that a priority and NOT IPL. Got it?

Yeah, Fickle fans like you who claim to be unbiased who forgot Sachin's contribution in SA series where we managed to draw, whitewashing Australia in India. Everything goes out of equation just cuz of 1 bad series. :hysterical:

lol. another Sachin bhakt worshipping his god and damning every other Indian player out there. Losers? Dude losers, like Zaheer for example, won matches for India while bhagwan ji scored a galant 20 odds in India humiliation fairly recently. Remember that? By the time the record I mentioned was over the entire career. It has nothing to do with period X or Y. Now go find a better excuse.

I needn't find an excuse, sachin bashers like you keep finding excuse, obviously its clear who doesn't have basic knowledge of cricket, what are you implying by saying Sachins century were useless? Zaheer was a crappy inconsistent bowler until 2007 hence yeah, we've never had good bowlers to back Sachin's performance. You're telling me Sachin's 100 which almost set up INdia for a total of 400 in the game against SA in world cup (later wasted by middle order and bowlers) was useless, go watch some cricket before posting trash here. :two_thumbs_up:

[Lurker]

Yeah, Fickle fans like you who claim to be unbiased who forgot Sachin's contribution in SA series where we managed to draw, whitewashing Australia in India. Everything goes out of equation just cuz of 1 bad series. :hysterical: I needn't find an excuse, sachin bashers like you keep finding excuse, obviously its clear who doesn't have basic knowledge of cricket, what are you implying by saying Sachins century were useless? Zaheer was a crappy inconsistent bowler until 2007 hence yeah, we've never had good bowlers to back Sachin's performance. You're telling me Sachin's 100 which almost set up INdia for a total of 400 in the game against SA in world cup (later wasted by middle order and bowlers) was useless, go watch some cricket before posting trash here. :two_thumbs_up:

Since you missed it completely. Resubmitting. Read it slowly Pagal Over the years? F*kc dude improve on comprehensive skills. IPL has been around for a few years only, Sachin well he has been playing since WW II lol. Let me type my response in simple points this time so you understand better? BCCI controls both IPL and Test team of India. Everybody(including SRT) plays IPL for money, plain and simple. Nobody plays it for love of cricket. Most cricket players want to play Test cricket for the love of the game and ultimate test. Folks like Yuvraj Singh keep on doing rona-dhona every other month talking about it. If money is the driver BCCI can bump the renumeration of Test cricket so players make that a priority and NOT IPL. Got it?

[SachDan]

Actually I see little meaning in stats by and large.As they say 75% of the stats are made on the spot..unless you are Ananth Narayan in which case it is 85%.

http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=1544092&postcount=602 We believe you, Lurker mian :two_thumbs_up:

[Vijay.Sharma]

Kapil might be arguably the best cricketer ever played for India but its a known fact that he is never comfortable in front of mike. I recall two incidents(accidents I should say): 1. Remember Kapil had a short role as commentator and in one of the India Vs Srilanka match when Jayasurya got hit at his Box, Kapil's innocent comment live at TV was: Wife of Jayasurya should not worry, he is all right". I do not remember after that incident Kapil was ever invited for live commentary. :hysterical: 2. When certain media person at airport asked him when will India get another Kapil Dev at airport he thought for 5 mins took a pause then replied very innocentaly "My mother is very old and my father is no more, so I dont think its possible now". Left the place with surprised journalists. :hysterical:

LOL! That's me hero!!!!

[Vijay.Sharma]

Lurky, we are back debating...this time about the mutual hero!

No we didnt. Kapil's performance in the games where he played with Srinath was much better than the latter. Srinath and Kapil played 12 tests together. Srinath netting 33 wickets @ 36 and Kapil 39 @28.This included a series down under where Kapil took 25 in 5 tests.

Allow me to corroborate with some more testimony... The other day I was looking at the stats and then going thru my memories of Kapsy between 91 and 94. I think he was still a good bowler...the relatively less number of wickets is due mainly because of the fact that India moved on to a 3-spinner attack and found great success in it. So the reason he took as long as he took to get to 434 from 401 after Aus series was because he bowled 5-10 overs in a Test innings (and still pick a wicket or two :-) ). I think it is because his batting failed miserably (he did not score a 50 in ODIs since West Indies in 89) that makes us think he was on a long rope. So, ya in a way as an all-rounder he wasn't delivering well enough in ODIs but in Tests he was doing alright (a cent in SA, a couple of fifties in the England-SL-NZ series).

As for Kapil getting the rope' date=' he never got as much rope as Sachin. Folks, like yours truly, who have seen both these greats playing will easily admit Kapil Dev was burdened with being India's best player from day 1. Sachin took his own time to develop and was given enough rope to perform, and then in his later years was again given enough rope, a courtsey that was not bestowed on his own contemprories like Ganguly, Dravid and VVS during latter years and Kambli etc in formative years.[/quote']Totally disagree! In fact, it is the other way around. I think Kapil needed guidance early in his career (but for just till 1980) much more than Sachin needed it even before he blasted Qadir for 27 runs. As Pataudi observed recently that Gavaskar was the best captain who succeeded him simply because Gavva knew how to groom Kapsy's talent (no doubting that I guess..Gavva did it - he unleashed Kapsy in many ways). Coming to Sachin - well he proved himself from the very beginning. He scored his first fifty at age 16, came close to a cent at age 16, he scored his first cent and saved a Test 2 months after he turned 17. Every effing series since, for almost a decade, he scored at least one cent (and India played just 3-test series usually). No sir, as much as Kapsy has been my boyhood (and only) hero, I don't think he has gotten any less "rope" than Sachin. Per me, both are heroes but I wouldn't mind claiming Sachin is in a league of his own - he is a fu

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Lurker]

The other day I was looking at the stats and then going thru my memories of Kapsy between 91 and 94. I think he was still a good bowler...the relatively less number of wickets is due mainly because of the fact that India moved on to a 3-spinner attack and found great success in it. So the reason he took as long as he took to get to 434 from 401 after Aus series was because he bowled 5-10 overs in a Test innings (and still pick a wicket or two :-) ).

Kapil slid as a bowler after his knee surgery. Pretty much after his 350 wickets he slid from Tier A bowlers of the world but he was still miles ahead of anyone else from India. I remember Ian Chapell picking 3 of Kapil's deliveries during his last series in Australia as amongst the very best he had ever seen. In those 3 deliveries he dismissed Border and Jones(I think). Dean Jones wrote about it as well. The first delivery completely outfoxed Alan Border and he looked at Jones, who was runners up. Jones responded with a "Bugger if I know" look. The next one crashed right into Border's stumps. I beleive this spell and another one by Andy Roberts were picked as the best 3 balls or so. I will have to look for some credentials for this so take it for whatever its worth. That this spell comes at the very end of his career should show what Kapil was as a bowler.

Totally disagree! In fact, it is the other way around. I think Kapil needed guidance early in his career (but for just till 1980) much more than Sachin needed it even before he blasted Qadir for 27 runs. As Pataudi observed recently that Gavaskar was the best captain who succeeded him simply because Gavva knew how to groom Kapsy's talent (no doubting that I guess..Gavva did it - he unleashed Kapsy in many ways). Coming to Sachin - well he proved himself from the very beginning. He scored his first fifty at age 16, came close to a cent at age 16, he scored his first cent and saved a Test 2 months after he turned 17. Every effing series since, for almost a decade, he scored at least one cent (and India played just 3-test series usually). No sir, as much as Kapsy has been my boyhood (and only) hero, I don't think he has gotten any less "rope" than Sachin. Per me, both are heroes but I wouldn't mind claiming Sachin is in a league of his own - he is a fu Kapil started his career under Bedi, not Sunny. And Bedi would cut Kapil loose. In the very first series Kapil was bouncing Pakistani opners and also hurling bouncers at Imran and Sarfaraz. You really think it was the same for anyone else in the history of Indian cricket? Ever? To change the atitude that much and also lead from day 1? Sachin was always groomed and given rope. Sure he showed great courage, as witnessed by his gem of innings against Pakistan, but he was just another in the rung of Gavaskar, Vengsarkar, Azhar and at that time Manjrekar. There was no game changing at play. As for Sunny-Kapil grooming I dont buy into that. Remember Sunny was the person who had said kapil could never be an all-rounder after which kapi smacked his fifty and then hundred, which promptly made Sunny claim he was trying to rile up Kapil. This is also the same guy who got Kapil dropped the only time in his career. So yes Sunny may have helped him as a fellow Indian cricketer, but groom? err no. xxx

[Vijay.Sharma]

Lurker, your aversion to Sachin and the quite clear disillusionment of Sunny's role in the making of Kapil Dev the cricketer has more to do with Raj Thackeray than the cricketers concerned. It is rather obvious! ps: Saying Gavva unleashed Kapil is not equal to saying Kapil debuted under Gavva. pps: As much as Kapil is me hero, he ain't no Buddha. Whether India had a tradition of fast bowlers or not, the fact is Kapil is India's greatest fast bowler ever and he being the first one does not for one moment reduce the importance of Sachin's place in cricket. Sachin is a bloody Buddha. ppps: I still will watch a Kapil cent more than a Viv or a Sachin cent for the sheer bludgenoning quality it had. Remember he came in when Azza was around 50+ at Kanpur in 86/87 versus SL. Kapil and Azza put on a partnership...hardly 3 hours seemed to have passed by and the scorecard read Kapil 169, Azza 125+. Kapil falls, Azza carries on to 199 and falls.