Terror attacks (UK)

[CC1981]

Democracies nseldom go in war against each other for some reason...

Again, go educate yourself. WWII was started by a democratically elected government attacking its eastern neighbour, also a democratically elected government. Democracies seldom go to war against one another is not a coroborrated fact but just a purely US-centric viewpoint.

I have no interest in word play on NATO fact remains.

No interest in wordplay ? You are categorically wrong to state that Russia is a part of NATO. Not only is Russia NOT a part of NATO, it has never applied for NATO membership and categorically opposses the NATO membership of Ukraine & Belorussia. So in short, you were categorically wrong in stating Russia is a part of NATO- do you have the guts to admit that or not ?

russia does everythign with NATo which its member does onstantly consutl n security beef ups so latching on to technicality is at best is cheap. add the word virtual member it makes all the sens of that's what pleases you.. Point is NATo which was sworn enemy of russia is anythign but

Categorically false and nonsense propaganda. Russia has done a few joint exercises with NATO as a show of ending cold-war and sent a few of its fighters as technology demonstration in western European air-shows. Whopee-tee-ding. Its categorically false to say that Russia does everything with NTO and they are anything but enemies. They may not be enemies today- but they most definitely are NOT friends.

[Lurker]

1. The world is a really fracked 'uni-polar' world today. That is going to change in a couple of decades- Either it will become bi-polar with China rising to match US or it will become tri-polar with India and Russia somewhere in the fray. I'd much rather have India as the third player rather than a US-chamchaa- which is exactly what we'd end up being if we got very cosy with the US.

Agreed with that. Look at it this way, even the closest ally of USA(England) is treated as a laptop of sorts. This has been atleast for the past decade and a half(as far as I have seen with my own two eyes). Brits people can keep taking all those juloos in Hyde Park the fact remains England is nothing but USA's pet today. And if thats the way best friends are treated well I dont want any part of that.

2. If we cozy up a lot to Russia, we can give the arabs (the source of funding for a lot of islamic nonsnse inside indian mosques) the proverbial middle-finger. Russia has more than enough oil & gas for Indian needs. Nothing better to contain muslim problems in India than distancing oneself from the oil-clout from middle-east. If you say alternative sources are the solution and Russia doesnt figure- well fine- it takes time to make it all alternative-energy- till then Russia can supply the oil & gas to us

I agree and disagree with that. Agreed because we definitely need USSR's oil and gas. At this point I can see ME stopping gas sale to India in a war against Pakistan but certainly not Russia so I am all for it. However the geography is such that we do not have direct access and this may kill the whole process.

Right now, Russia desperately needs money and will sell arms to anyone in the world but their preference of India over China is categoric- Russia will NOT sell China scramjet missiles- they have categorically refused. And the Sukhois they sold to China (version MKK) are significantly inferior to the Sukhois they sold to us ( version MKI).

Agreed. Russia needs money but they are not stupid to sell arms to their neighbours!! And a budding superpower at that. No such issues with India.

4. Only thing we need really from the US is money in form of investments. Since US is not a government-controlled investment sector, we will get US money without any cozying up with America anyways. US investors arnt gonna miss the boat on India's economic rise. So what we really need from the US, we are already getting without any further chamchaagiri.

We need US money as much as they need our market. I have worked with some of top 100 companies in USA and they are happy if they get a 10% increase in revenue from USA, the growth is coming from India/China so they want to invest. If we play our cards well they will come, no need to bend over backwards. xx

[kumble_rocks]

If you conveniently ignore a lot of us barbaric activities and are in the bussiness of appeasing then hell ya titles are easy to come by ... But what happens to truth ?

Are Bhai , How is it appeasing to praise Tipu Sultan.BTW , He was against the Nawab (another muslim) and fought against the British valiantly and died a soldier's death. Surely , you don't want to ignore all this.

[CC1981]

However the geography is such that we do not have direct access and this may kill the whole process.

It makes oil & gas slightly more expensive. Because now instead of a 3-day oil tanker journey from Saudi to India, its a 2 week oil tanker journey from Sakhalin to India. Still, i'd rather have that than rely on middle-eastern oil. With India's rising economy, we can take that extra-transportation cost. Particularly if we cozy up to Russia and commit to purchasing a huge volume of oil for a few decades so we get 'special discount rates' for entering such a long term contract. Sort the same thing US does with Saudi. (main reason gas is cheapest in US than anywhere in the western world: US pays 80% market price on oil value in Saudi Arabia)

Agreed. Russia needs money but they are not stupid to sell arms to their neighbours!! And a budding superpower at that. No such issues with India.

Yep- another big thing about Russia-India friendship over Russia-China friendship is that China actually 'officially' claimed the entire Amur region in Siberia ( the south-western part just beside China and the Pacific-where Vladivostok is) as recently as 40 years ago. India and Russia are far enough from each other that neither party has to worry about losing territorry to the other guy.

[kumble_rocks]

They are backed by facts and such ... there is nothing I can do if you dont like those facts .... and just becuase they are uncomfortable I aint going to brush that under the carpet. Iam more than willing to debate on the accuracy of any issues on those sites. You can use your resources to prove them wrong.

Use my resources ??. Just a simple google will give me a Islamic website which actually paints Aurangzeb as a hero with it's own facts and figures. Do you expect me to believe that . I don't . I am not a reputed historian and neither are you. So we need more than one source to gauge authenticity. In fact , your own KS LAL has been discounted by another historian Peter Jackson in the Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Britain. Looks like KS LAL is a KP with an axe to grind. But I am willing to give his book a good read with an OPEN MIND.

[Gaurav]

Ah I see personal attacks now. You know the first rule of debate? A person who starts losing the debate starts personal attacks, so you know where you stand.

Last time I checked you were the first to start personal insults against me by calling me a "dumb atheist" or whatever it was that you typed. I just started giving you back and you start crying like a baby. Still standing by your "A person who starts losing the debate starts personal attacks, so you know where you stand" bit? If you can't handle insults then don't dish them out in the first place otherwise take it like a man :hysterical: I think I have had three recent debates with you. God, Dowry and this one. First two you lost as far as I am concerned by mumbling meaningless mumbo jumbo deep cr@p. This one I would say is on going and I don't see any slam dunk arguments from you apart from how learned and deep you are and how the jihadis are not our problem :hysterical:

US does not owe us anything, we don't owe them anything. End of the story. They need our help(with Taliban, whoever) they better EARN it. So far they have not.

Funny thing is that they did not really give a f@k about our help. They did what needed to be done to protect their interests.

Let me throw it back at you now. Did Golden Temple had EVERYTHING to do with Indira Gandhi's murder?

On the surface yes. Beneath the surface your guess is as good as mine because we just don't have the complete information.

Basically this is what you are saying - A country(Israel) is forgiven of the fact that it helped killed Indian soldiers(in hundreds atleast if not thousands) because ten years later they sold weapons to India during Kargil.

Provide sources that specifically show that Israel trained LTTE for the specific purpose of killing Indian soldiers.

I have never said go with USSR all the time, but if history teaches us anything that is USSR has helped us more than any freaking country in our history. And so I am more than happy to say we need to expand on our relation with USSR. Unfortunately ignorant ABCD's look more towards their white masters from West..ah well

Newsflash! USSR does not exist and is broken into bits. I guess you are too ignorant to understand that + to understand that I am not ABCD!

[CC1981]

Funny thing is that they did not really give a f@k about our help. They did what needed to be done to protect their interests.

Riiight. Seriously, do you see a lot of Fox news too ? ;'They did what needed to be done' Right. So it means, if a country attacks us, we should bomb the hell out of it for a little while, go invade it for two months, ask our allies to police that country and go start another war with fabircated reasons. If thats what needs to be done in a sane society, then i got nothing more to say except question your sanity.

Provide sources that specifically show that Israel trained LTTE for the specific purpose of killing Indian soldiers.

so hang on a minute- Israel starting to train LTTE when IPKF ws there is just a 'coincidence' ?

[Lurker]

Last time I checked you were the first to start personal insults against me by calling me a "dumb atheist" or whatever it was that you typed. I just started giving you back and you start crying like a baby. Still standing by your "A person who starts losing the debate starts personal attacks' date= so you know where you stand" bit? If you can't handle insults then don't dish them out in the first place otherwise take it like a man

lol..A brain dead KP who knows nothing about Kashmit preaching others lol. Read up on the history of your forefathers kid before you go all teary eyed next time. I hope I have given you enough info on that.

I think I have had three recent debates with you. God, Dowry and this one. First two you lost as far as I am concerned by mumbling meaningless mumbo jumbo deep cr@p.

So you are judge, jury, executioner everything? Man you must be a complete tool to think you take part in XYZ debates and won ABC of them. You have NIL idea about India or Kashmir and GOD and you have galls to claim you know...Ignorance breeds arrogance huh ABCD?

Provide sources that specifically show that Israel trained LTTE for the specific purpose of killing Indian soldiers.

Hahaha. So you do not know something and you concede. Good thats a start Ignorant boy. So here is the deal. I shall pick out excerpts from a book written by Mossad ex-spy(book is banned in USA/Israel but can be bought in Canada) which tells exactly how Mossad trained LTTE and supplied them with weapons to kill IPKF. Now first impress upon me why are you worth the effort? Why should I type half a page for a ignorant tool like you? :tounge_smile: xxx

[kumble_rocks]

What about the Genocide of thousands of Hindus and forcible conversion ?

The jury is still out on that.

[CC1981]

Now first impress upon me why are you worth the effort? Why should I type half a page for a ignorant tool like you?

Do it for me then ! please ! :tounge_smile:

[The Outsider]

Victor Ostrovsky, author of By Way of Deception, told Indian Abroad news service in 1991 that the Tigers were trained in Israel in 1985. "These groups kept coming and going. It was part of our routine job to take them to training camps and make sure that they were getting training worth what they paid for, not more and not less." The groups paid in cash. Ostrovsky said that the arrangement for the training was made by the Mossad liaison in India, who lived there under a British passport. A December 1983 Sunday Mail article reported that the Mossad was arming and training the Tigers, as well as the Sri Lankan Armed Forces. One of the main figures involved in these operations, according to other reports, was Rafi Eytan, the former head of the Israeli intelligence agency LEKEM, which had been caught running spy Jonathan Pollard in the United States. Following the 1985 scandal, Eytan was transferred to become the head of Israeli Chemical Industries, in which capacity he spent time in Sri Lanka. The British Special Air Services (SAS) firm Keenie Meenie Services, was simultaneously training the Sri Lankan Army and the LTTE.

Its a pretty well known fact in Indian army circles that LTTE was receiving arms and training from Mossad while the IPKF was there. from : Southern India, Sri Lanka terrorist groups by Joseph Brewda and Madhu Gurung October 13, 1995 issue of Executive Intelligence Review.

[Lurker]

Go to any page in our history book ... feel free to go back as far as you care in the past 1000 yrs or so and you will often find misery accompanying our adarshwaad. Thats why.

Phir wahi murge ki ek taang! BB you are in no position to talk about history and how we dont learn from it. I have given you ample proof of USA in past 50 years or so. Why dont YOU learn from recent history than harping on 1000 years old?

I dare you to proove stuff out there is wrong.

On what FFI? You must be dreaming if you think I will waste my time on that joke of a site. Next thing you will tell me to prove XYZ wrong on www.IhateGanguly.com.

Like I said ... you have preconceived notions that Islam = Holy and you scowl at somebody questioning your PC views. Iam the opposite. I loath PC ness.

And I just think you are filled with blind hatred.

Arrey yaar kabhi kabar hamarey posts ka bhi jawaab dey do ... ? Anyways I gave plenty of explanation on this US foreign business to answer any of your questions .... I am not the type to hide behind petty tehnicalities and engage in pedantry .... what you see is what you get .... Straight Blunt and frank.

What straight blunt and frank BB? Talk is cheap. Give straight answers to this..Yes or No. 1) Do you agree that US has for the most part, if not always voted against Indian Interest, specially when it came to Kashmir? 2) Do you agree that UShas armed India's traditional enemy, specially during the time of warfares? 3) Do you agree that US twisted India's arms to the extend it sent its naval fleet inside Indian Ocean miles from Bombay? 4) Do you agree that USSR saved India's skin on all the above situations? Yes and No shall suffice. xxx

[Gaurav]

Riiight. Seriously, do you see a lot of Fox news too ? ;'They did what needed to be done' Right. So it means, if a country attacks us, we should bomb the hell out of it for a little while, go invade it for two months, ask our allies to police that country and go start another war with fabircated reasons. If thats what needs to be done in a sane society, then i got nothing more to say except question your sanity.

I don't watch Fox news! Lurker said something about US should earn our trust with regards to getting our help for crushing Taliban. To that I said the above ie. US does not give a f@k about earning our trust. It went on it's own. My point had nothing to do with if US actions were right or wrong.

so hang on a minute- Israel starting to train LTTE when IPKF ws there is just a 'coincidence' ?

I could be wrong as I am quoting from memory but I think they started training few years before IPKF got there? Mossad trained Sri Lankan govt. soldiers as well. So there is a difference between training both sides and training Tamils only to target Indian soldiers. Indian soldiers were there as peacekeepers anyway (initially). That said if Israel intention was to let Indian soldiers get killed then Israel would definitely loose points in my book. Why blame Mossad when our own desis did more damage? Very good interview with Colonel John Taylor (retd), one of the first officers assigned to the IPKF, http://www.rediff.com/news/2000/mar/23lanka.htm Were you aware that intelligence agencies continued to train LTTE even after the IPKF landed in Lanka? Yes. The IPKF fought LTTE cadres, who came to Madras and got treated at hospitals and went back to fight them. Also perhaps, the LTTE's base in Tamil Nadu continued to facilitate the flow of arms and money to them. They enjoyed financial and political patronage. Of which parties? All sorts of people. There was this Maran [not Murasoli Maran], V Gopalaswamy. Several of them including George Fernandes. Isn't it then amazing that Fernandes is India's defence minister now? That is the miracle of India (laughs). You were aware that all these people were openly supporting LTTE even after the IPKF landed there? Yes. So what did you feel about their involvement? I can only say what I did. I do not know what the decision at the highest level of government was.

[Lurker]

That is just ignorance speaking out and nothing more. Feel free to bring up any issue and I can debate. The guy is not a idiot to attract ire of the Islamic nutters by exposing their religion. And comparing FFI to Ihateganguly is a logical fallacy of the most idiotic type. Ganguly is a sports person who doesnt advocate killing people like your ROP does.

lol..MY ROP? Thats laughable. As for FFI here is the deal, but for a2%(or less) population made of peeps like you rest everyone, regardless of their religious leanings, loath such a website. So if you want me to in that hate-filled minority be my guest. I mean its your life.

Okay .... will do ... But may I remind you that it took me a entire month to get you to respond on the Gandhi thread and you still evade my questions on the No-Sharia Ever thread ... So how do you expect me to oblige you at your beck and call ? 1) Do you agree that US has for the most part, if not always voted against Indian Interest, specially when it came to Kashmir? 2) Do you agree that UShas armed India's traditional enemy, specially during the time of warfares? Yes to both and I explained this didnt I . So why are repeating yourselves . 3) Do you agree that US twisted India's arms to the extend it sent its naval fleet inside Indian Ocean miles from Bombay? Dont know when that happened . Explain. 4) Do you agree that USSR saved India's skin on all the above situations? Yes and No shall suffice I dont think the USSR did anything on many of the UN resolutions other than being absent. Do you agree or not ? Also please feel free to highligt what exactly did USSR do to help Indias cause w.r.t Pak. Also interesting would be to see what USSR did during the 1962 war. And now I would like answers on the No-Sharia Thread.

[kumble_rocks]

Do you think he did not indulge in those activities ?

I don't know. No french please.

[Gaurav]

lol..A brain dead KP who knows nothing about Kashmit preaching others lol. Read up on the history of your forefathers kid before you go all teary eyed next time. I hope I have given you enough info on that.

Last time I checked it was you moaning like a kid about personal attacks! What has KP got to do with the silly points you were making? Anyway I won't call you whatever the f@k you are! Nice that you showed your true aukad. I am fully aware of my real history so you can shove your PC history in that "deep" part of your body . While you are at it go and hug a jihadi. Probably the secret reason for your continued presence in America? :hysterical:

So you are judge, jury, executioner everything? Man you must be a complete tool to think you take part in XYZ debates and won ABC of them. You have NIL idea about India or Kashmir and GOD and you have galls to claim you know...Ignorance breeds arrogance huh ABCD?

Wo kettle aur pot ka kya kahte hain? Just borrowed from your "I am deep person but you are a dumb atheist" book. Jal gai kya? Nice to know that my post served it's intended purpose. I will take lesson on Kashmir from some dude who has never spent any real time there? I will stick to FIRST HAND experience of my time in Kashmir. Ja sit on the ghat of some holy river instead of running after me like you did on older threads claiming to be an atheist like me:hysterical: After that you had the guts to preach on the religion thread the meaning of being atheist. Phir agnostic ban gaya :hysterical:. What are you these days? Very confused desi? Jhut bolle kawa kate kale kawe se dario :giggle: Btw if you are talking about Ostrovski's book then I am aware of it and various rebuttals when it comes to Sri Lanka. So save your stupid deal for someone else. Edit- Ja soja abh.

[Lurker]

Last time I checked it was you moaning like a kid about personal attacks! What has KP got to do with the silly points you were making? Anyway I won't call you whatever the f@k you are! Nice that you showed your true aukad. I am fully aware of my real history so you can shove your PC history in that "deep" part of your body . While you are at it go and hug a jihadi. Probably the secret reason for your continued presence in America?

Well well what was that whole shenaigan about you were uttering - Dont dish out what you can't take eh ABCD? Ab mirchi lagi tere ko where you were shown your face value? A KP who has no freaking clue about his own ancestors and how his present white masters in UK did to KP(educate yourself on Kashmir resolutions plz). I hope I have given you ample food for thought you ignorant person who can not help but bring the plight of KP in every discussions!

Btw if you are talking about Ostrovski's book then I am aware of it and various rebuttals when it comes to Sri Lanka. So save your stupid deal for someone else.

Hahaha... You are "aware". How "aware" are you mate? "Aware" enough to not even know about it before the start of this thread eh? If you were "really aware" how come you have no feaking clue about LTTE and came asking ME to prove Mossad connection? Werent you the one who were talking out of your arse about Indira gandhi/Rajeev Gandhi assasination and then IPKF? And you are "aware" of the book. Spare me the laughs and please continue to embarass yourself.

Edit- Ja soja abh.

Its way past your bedtime, probably 2 amish in London, its only 7:30 pm here ABCD. Go sleep instead of picking fights on Message boards you ignorant of highest order. xxx

[King]

Wow.... relax folks. What's with the abuses? It's only a MB, ease up. :wink_smile:

[Rajiv]

OK, easy fellas..its reaching a point where words are substituting fist fights. Tone it down, thanx

[Lurker]

Wow.... relax folks. What's with the abuses? It's only a MB' date=' ease up. :wink_smile:[/quote'] Right Ravi. Its been a little too heated for my taste today. GKD lets agree to disagree mate, no point getting hot under the collar. Cheers! xxx