Terror attacks (UK)

[Ram]

Right Ravi. Its been a little too heated for my taste today. GKD lets agree to disagree mate, no point getting hot under the collar. Cheers! xxx

Cool sportsmanship there Lurks.. Was getting a little too acrimonious ! :wink_smile:

[King]

Good on ya Lurks.

[The Outsider]

Btw if you are talking about Ostrovski's book then I am aware of it and various rebuttals when it comes to Sri Lanka. So save your stupid deal for someone else.

GKD, I find that really hard to believe considering just a couple of pages back you were asking for any source claiming Israel provided more than mere arms to LTTE. Suddenly, you not only know about the book but also it's rebuttals after I posted that paragraph from the article with Ostrovski's quotes.

[Gaurav]

Well well what was that whole shenaigan about you were uttering - Dont dish out what you can't take eh ABCD? Ab mirchi lagi tere ko where you were shown your face value? A KP who has no freaking clue about his own ancestors and how his present white masters in UK did to KP(educate yourself on Kashmir resolutions plz). I hope I have given you ample food for thought you ignorant person who can not help but bring the plight of KP in every discussions!

I really have no idea what you are going on about! Did I say anywhere that US/UK are KPs or India's best friends? Hell even India was not KPs best friend so what makes you think that I would think that foreign powers be any different? So why do you argue about something I never said?

Hahaha... You are "aware". How "aware" are you mate? "Aware" enough to not even know about it before the start of this thread eh? If you were "really aware" how come you have no feaking clue about LTTE and came asking ME to prove Mossad connection? Werent you the one who were talking out of your arse about Indira gandhi/Rajeev Gandhi assasination and then IPKF? And you are "aware" of the book. Spare me the laughs and please continue to embarass yourself.

Aware enough to know about the book and some of it's contents. You can try to score cheap points but I still stand by my point that Mossad did not train Tamil rebels with the specific aiming of killing Indian soldiers. Indian army was not supposed initially supposed to get involved in any hardcore conflict. Mossad trained both sides...Sri Lankan Army and Tamil Tigers around the same time. Anyway if some slam dunk evidence comes to light in the future then I would stand corrected regarding Indira and Rajiv's death. Until that time I don't see any reason why we should not have good ties with Israel. By good ties I mean scratching each others back.

Right Ravi. Its been a little too heated for my taste today. GKD lets agree to disagree mate, no point getting hot under the collar. Cheers! xxx

I was about to start a thread calling for a truce. I guess no need now. Yes let's agree to disagree till next time :hysterical::tounge_smile: Take it easy and reserve a spot for me on the ghat :wink_smile:

[kumble_rocks]

http://voi.org/books/tipu/ And before you get upset about the publishers read the the Bibliography in those links at the bottom of each link ... that itself is few pages and the authors have nothing to do with RSS.

Jesus , why don't cut and paste relevant section for god's sake. Last time I spent days together reading that Ali Sina website about Prophet. And if I post relevant websites or blogs praising Aurangzeb , would you believe that. Obviously not and neither will I .And no comments from you about KS Lal. Here it is - Quote: Originally Posted by Bheembhai They are backed by facts and such ... there is nothing I can do if you dont like those facts .... and just becuase they are uncomfortable I aint going to brush that under the carpet. Iam more than willing to debate on the accuracy of any issues on those sites. You can use your resources to prove them wrong. Use my resources ??. Just a simple google will give me a Islamic website which actually paints Aurangzeb as a hero with it's own facts and figures. Do you expect me to believe that . I don't . I am not a reputed historian and neither are you. So we need more than one source to gauge authenticity. In fact , your own KS LAL has been discounted by another historian Peter Jackson in the Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Britain. Looks like KS LAL is a KP with an axe to grind. But I am willing to give his book a good read with an OPEN MIND.

[kumble_rocks]

Cool sportsmanship there Lurks.. Was getting a little too acrimonious ! :wink_smile:

Maris. Trust me , don't get into debates here. More often than not , it gets abusive.:confused_smile:

[kumble_rocks]

See Lurks its quite easy to engage in rhetorics .... 2 can play the game. Its sad that despite me answering your questions patiently and cordially you keep taking your tone down south and get into a confrontational mode for no reason. Quite unfortunate. .

What about you Bheem. What is this - Quote: Originally Posted by kumble_rocks The jury is still out on that. WTF .... Do you think he did not indulge in those activities ?

[Ram]

Maris. Trust me ' date=' don't get into debates here. More often than not , it gets abusive.:confused_smile:[/quote'] hehe.. I really like the prospect of matching my debating/intellectual talents ( If any) against someone else. Not to prove i am better or worse , but just to test myself And wrt to the abuse part, It takes two to Tango KR. If you can make your point with dignity and poise , no sane man will be stupid enough to abuse you. And even if he does , he will end up looking like one big fool in front of all ! Besides, its not the vitriolic nature the words that evoke fear/respect , its the validity of the points ! The mods do a great job in cutting the music from getting too loud anyway ! :thumbs_up:

[Gaurav]

GKD' date=' I find that really hard to believe considering just a couple of pages back you were asking for any source claiming Israel provided more than mere arms to LTTE. Suddenly, you not only know about the book but also it's rebuttals after I posted that paragraph from the article with Ostrovski's quotes.[/quote'] Shwetabh honestly I knew about that book but I never actually read it....apart from non LTTE related excerpts long time ago. I obviously read lot tonight. I am being completely honest that I did not even click any of your links or read any of your posts. I was onto the book when Lurker mentioned Mossad killed Gandhi rumour. I was too focused on Lurker's and CC's posts to pay any attention to your post. Infact i did not even read Bheem and DR's posts completely :hysterical: Sorry :whatchutalkingabout I am also normally few posts behind due to some special software to protect my ID...so it take a long time before I see updated posts. Add to that the amount of crap I type. Btw I have absolutely no problem in admitting if I am not upto speed on some subject. I am some anonymous f@k on the net and my virtual ego is not that fragile :wink_smile: The most shocking thing that I learned today was the depth to which Indian politicians screwed up in SL and the level of support LTTE got from Indian traitors (The long interview that I had posted). Anyway this was the text from Tamil source that I was referring to...maybe biased but here it is (I will go and read your post properly now)-

Let me repeat what Ostrovski had written on this topic. "Around 1983, a group of Tamil guerrilla factions, collectively known as the Tamil Tigers, began an armed struggle to create a Tamil homeland in the north called Eelam - an on-going battle that has claimed thousands of lives on both sides". This is the only sentence in the book, where a vague reference is made to the Tamil Tigers. The time-frame Ostrovski had written about was "mid-July 1984", when he was still a trainee at the Mossad Academy. He had not mentioned LTTE by name anywhere in the book. At that time, all the militant groups fighting for Eelam (LTTE, TELO, EPRLF, EROS and PLOTE) were identified as "Tamil Tigers". This point need be stressed. The authors of Broken Palmyra also clearly state this fact in page 72 of their book; "Up to this time (April 1985), the Tamil population had hardly differentiated between rival groups. They were all referred to as boys and even Tigers".

If this is so, which Tamil militant group was trained by the Mossad? It is my opinion that, rather than the LTTE, it was the TELO which was sent to Israel. What are my supporting evidences?

1) The New York Times of July 3, 1984 had a two-column news report, datelined "New Delhi, July 2". It stated that J.R. Jayewardene had had "two days of talks with Prime Minister Indira Gandhi on the Tamil problem". It also informed; "The Sri Lanka leader did not say when the Israelis would begin working but said that their antiterrorist expertise would be used to assist his security forces in operations against extremists from the minority Tamil community". The newsreport had the caption, "Sri Lanka Strife and Israeli Aid".

2) It is understandable that Indira Gandhi was not happy with this trick by J.R.Jayewardene. She was assassinated on October 31, 1984. A few months before her assassination (Aug.8, 1984, to be specific) she had delivered a speech about the Mossad - Sri Lankan military links in the Lok Sabha. This is what the Mainichi Daily News of Japan (Aug.27, 1984) reported; "Speaking in parliament on Aug.8, Mrs.Gandhi said that as in the past, Sri Lanka could have asked for India's help but had Mossad...". This was republished from a report written by Salamat Ali in New Delhi to the Far Eastern Economic Review.

3) It is now well-known, that during Indira Gandhi's period, TELO was the pampered Tamil militant group, and not the LTTE. To nullify the advantage the Sri Lankan military establishment would have received by the training from Mossad, the Indian "policy analysts" would have opted to send a Tamil militant group (obviously the TELO) to Israel.

4) The Indian connection with the Mossad is clearly indicated by Ostrovski in the same pages which cover the Sri Lankan deal. To quote him, "We have a group of 27 SWAT team guys from India coming in ".

5) The British weekly Economist of Aug.3, 1985, in its coverage on the five Tamil militant groups, identified LTTE as receiving training from the PLO in Lebanon.

If this is so, the recent revelation that the alleged mastermind behind Rajiv Gandhi's murder (the so-called "one-eyed Jack", alias Sivarajan), was a member of the TELO from 1983 and 1986, lead one to search more into the mystery of Mossad. The warning given by Yasser Arafat to Rajiv Gandhi, five weeks before the May 21, 1991 assassination also suggest that he (Arafat) could have received "some intelligence", about the activities of the Mossad. Ostrovski's book provide details about how Mossad track the movements of Arafat and other leaders of the PLO. Arafat also should be equally tactful in gathering intelligence about the activities of the Mossad. Otherwise, he could not have survived for so long. Whether Sivarajan had links to the Mossad and did Mossad had any hand in the murder of Rajiv Gandhi's murder are worthy questions to search for answers.

Mervyn de Silva, in his regular column in the Lanka Guardian (Oct.15, 1991) noted that the Indian politician Dr. Subramaniam Swamy had used his Harvard contacts "to channel Israeli assistance to the LTTE, including expertise in landmines, as we now know from Viktor Ostrovski'. This was based on a purported interview of Dr.Swamy published in the weekly India Abroad, sometime ago.

What is puzzling for me is that, while Mervyn de Silva had implicated the LTTE's links with Israel, in his Oct.15, 1991 report, quoting Viktor Ostrovski, the India Abroad of Aug.9, 1991 published a retraction of Dr.Swamy's assertion. The newsreport entitled "The Mossad-LTTE Link" stated, "Last year, former Law minister Subramaniam Swamy also alleged in an interview with India Abroad that LTTE guerrillas had received training with the Israeli intelligence agency. Swamy however later denied having made the charges". This published retraction in the India Abroad proves that Mervyn de Silva, though an able commentator on Indo-Sri Lankan affairs, also prefers to promote some views which are not based on facts.

While promoting the view, citing Viktor Ostrovski, that LTTE had links with Mossad, the erudite editor of the Lanka Guardian has overlooked some other factual material provided by Ostrovski, which are more critical relating to the coffers of Sri Lankan treasury. Ostrovski has noted that in mid-July 1984, "nearly 50" Sri Lankan army personnel arrived for training in Israel. These training sessions were not offered free. According to Ostrovski, "A unit of 60 trainees would cost about $300 each day (per trainee), for a total of $18,000. For a three-month course, that would be $1.6 million. On top of that, they would be charged $5,000 to $6,000 an hour for helicopter rental, and as many as 15 helicopters could be used in a training exercise. Add to that the cost of special ammunition used in training: a bazooka shell, for example, cost about $220 a unit, while heavy mortars were about $1000 each..." Only J.R.Jayewardene and his cronies at that time know, how many millions of dollars were given to the Mossad for training of the Sri Lankan army personnel in Israel.

This exorbitant fleecing by the Mossad itself proves that LTTE could not have afforded to pay the training fees (running into millions of dollars), way back in 1984. Only the governmental support could have handed over the training fees demanded by the Mossad. It is my belief that the Tamil expatriate support to the LTTE (in 1984) would not have amounted to millions of dollars to pay for military training. This "Tamil expatriate support" has been elevated into a myth by the Sri Lankan Ministry of Dis-Information, to receive foreign aid from unsuspecting donors.

In conclusion, Ostrovsky should be credited for exposing the deals Sri Lankan government had with Mossad, through the Mahaveli River Diversion Project. Apart from exposing how J.R.Jayewardene and his cronies (especially Lalith Athulathmudali) swindled the foreign-aid funds they received from unsuspecting donors, Ostrovski also has pricked the bloated egos of the Sri Lankan military personnel by divulging how Mossad had fooled them. How the disclosures by Ostrovski about the misuse of foreign-aid funds by the government of Sri Lanka had affected the future policy of international aid granting countries (especially Japan) towards Sri Lanka is an interesting story. It has to be explored separately in a subsequent commentary.

[Gaurav]

Ostrovski ki complete e-book anyone?? Hardcore traitor though :wink_smile:

[Gaurav]

Friend just sent this :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: If this had happened in a US airport, compared to Glasgow Eyewitness accounts: America:"Oh my God! There was a man on fire, he was running about, i just ran for my life. I thought i was gonna die, he got so close to me" Glasgow "C*nt wis running aboot on fire, so a ran up n gave him a good boot, then decked him" America:" I just wanna get home, away from here. I just wanna get home, I thought i was gonna die" Glasgow:" here shug, am no leaving here till am oan a f*ckin' plane!" America:" there was pandemonium, people were running in all directions, we didn't know what was happening thought i was gonna die" Glasgow:"F***** this fir a kerry oan, moan we'll get a pint in" America:" We thought he was gonna blow us all up he had a gas canister, and was trying to get into his trunk, I thought we were gonna die, I just ran for my life" Glasgow:"a swaggered by the motor that wis on fire, and the dafty couldnae even open his boot, he wis in fire annaw so a ran up n gave him a good boot to the baws" America: there was this huge explosion, it sounded like war, I thought i was gonna die" Glasgow:" There wis a bang, yi know when yi throw BO basher intae a fire itwis like that" [John Stenhouse] America:" I'm too traumatized even to speak, I thought i was gonna die" Glasgow "here mate, gies 2 minutes till a phone ma auld dear, if am gonna be oan the telly a want her tae tape it" & finally, two quotes from an eye-witness.........john smeaton (these are real) John just surpassed himself on the National ITV new The interviewer asked "What message do you have for the bombers" - he replied "This is Glasgow we'll just set about you" John done an interview on cnn and they asked how he restrained the guy and he said "me and other folk were just tryin 2 get the boot in and some other guy banjoed him" !

[Guest dada_rocks]

I wonder why are we whining about Mossad-LTTE liasision don't you guys know about RAW/LTTE liaisison. Tamilnadu governemtn LTTE liaisison. Rajeev LTTE liaision. Some frankstein raised by us bites us back and instead of accepting we screwed we are looking for who else was helping that same frankstein. It's moot point if not then we should sit here and punch our RAW too. What matters is when india asked for Israel's help despite zilch diplomatic relations they were more than happy to help. No strings attached how many freaking countries in world do that.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Nothing more than the voice of a largely illiterate society, unfortunately. Religious profiling is to India's detriment and that is a fact that no saffron-wadi can refute as i've demonstrated it with my problem & fuel-to-the-fire explanation.

You rexplanation:hysterical: I will put that in dust-bin where it belongs..

[Guest dada_rocks]

Riiight. Seriously, do you see a lot of Fox news too ? ;'They did what needed to be done' Right. So it means, if a country attacks us, we should bomb the hell out of it for a little while, go invade it for two months, ask our allies to police that country and go start another war with fabircated reasons. If thats what needs to be done in a sane society, then i got nothing more to say except question your sanity. so hang on a minute- Israel starting to train LTTE when IPKF ws there is just a 'coincidence' ?

It's not a coincidence but clueless ones like you misses the point that india went their to do LTTE's ( india raise frankestein) bidding not to fight against them. So if Mosad was training them wonder who were they trying to help. .

[Guest dada_rocks]

lol..A brain dead KP who knows nothing about Kashmit preaching others lol. Read up on the history of your forefathers kid before you go all teary eyed next time. I hope I have given you enough info on that. So you are judge, jury, executioner everything? Man you must be a complete tool to think you take part in XYZ debates and won ABC of them. You have NIL idea about India or Kashmir and GOD and you have galls to claim you know...Ignorance breeds arrogance huh ABCD? Hahaha. So you do not know something and you concede. Good thats a start Ignorant boy. So here is the deal. I shall pick out excerpts from a book written by Mossad ex-spy(book is banned in USA/Israel but can be bought in Canada) which tells exactly how Mossad trained LTTE and supplied them with weapons to kill IPKF. Now first impress upon me why are you worth the effort? Why should I type half a page for a ignorant tool like you? :tounge_smile: xxx

You forgot to add the clause this time, u know the usual one :"I usually don't resort to abuse" before indulging into one.. :hysterical:

[The Outsider]

Ostrovski ki complete e-book anyone?? Hardcore traitor though :wink_smile:

I would be interested, GKD.

[kumble_rocks]

Pls dont over react man. That was more in shock at you being conveniently unaware of Tipus deeds. But since you insist I shall edit the offending bit. But shall I post some of what you said earlier in this thread accusing me and dada of being Hindu Fundies ?

Yeah Right. Provide me that post where called you Hindu Fundies in this thread. All I said is why is it Hindu Brigade failed to understand ............................. And you conveniently forget what I had stated in our earlier thread that I do not have a problem if you and Dada unite under Hindu banner. And do you want me dig up your post wherein you question my knowledge of History. Please don't act in this "Holier than thou" way. Anyways , let it go man. Thanks for cut and paste about Tipu.

[Gaurav]

I wonder why are we whining about Mossad-LTTE liasision don't you guys know about RAW/LTTE liaisison. Tamilnadu governemtn LTTE liaisison. Rajeev LTTE liaision. Some frankstein raised by us bites us back and instead of accepting we screwed we are looking for who else was helping that same frankstein. It's moot point if not then we should sit here and punch our RAW too. What matters is when india asked for Israel's help despite zilch diplomatic relations they were more than happy to help. No strings attached how many freaking countries in world do that.

Exactly! RAW provided training to Tamil rebels as well. Plus RAW had connections with Mossad during that period. Lurker my biggest problem with your line of thinking is that when you were discussing Muslim invaders/rulers butchering of Hindus then you created a diversion by saying that xyz Rajputs worked for muslim rulers as well. It's kind of saying that you can't blame the Islamic rulers as all sides were upto cr@p back then. Now Mossad trained some Tamil rebels (again I stress SL soldiers as well) but our own agencies and politicians f@ked up more than anyone but in this case you are not using the same thinking as you do in the Rajput/Islamic rulers case ie everyone was upto cr@p Why? It's very difficult to get cold hard facts and form a complete picture as we probably have access to 1% of the information regarding what really happened behind closed doors. So I still have not seen any reason why we should not have "friendly" relationships with Israel. Security cooperation between India and Israel is strategically good for both countries. Btw the FFI articles on Islam are very clear and factual! Sure the forum is full of all kinds of people (from right wing christians to fundi muslims) but the articles that analyse Mo and Islamic text are 100% accurate. I personally have no time for the Hindutva chaddi walles either. I am not pro Hindu like some others might be on this forum. That does not change the fact that Islam is NOT a ROP and that following such ideology fries your logic brain cells :omg_smile:

[Gaurav]

I would be interested' date=' GKD.[/quote'] Then find it for me as well :hysterical:

[Guest dada_rocks]

Yeah Right. Provide me that post where called you Hindu Fundies in this thread. All I said is why is it Hindu Brigade failed to understand ............................. And you conveniently forget what I had stated in our earlier thread that I do not have a problem if you and Dada unite under Hindu banner. And do you want me dig up your post wherein you question my knowledge of History. Please don't act in this "Holier than thou" way. Anyways , let it go man. Thanks for cut and paste about Tipu.

It's the same thing..U are learning ropes from CC and company on how to obfuscate matter by splitting hairs..... Anyway I for one don't give a rat's behind how many times u guys use that word hindu fundie.. And u are the same guy who went to town for my use of the word fetish.. Dare i say a perfectly fine word for describing someone's over-indulgence with sthg.. it's self-interest banner unlike u guys' damsel-in-distress banner.. And cut and paste or calligraphically penned on goldtinted paper fact remains fact about these islamic barbarians, get used to it..