ganeshran Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Here is a challenge - find me more than half an hour of Viswanath's available footage online. The GR Vishwanath innings came from robelinda's archives who most probably has footage of that entire series but only uploaded the important innings. There would certainly be more recorded footage of Vishwanath available than Bradman, though I am not sure how much is in the public domain and freely available online. The crux of the argument was that most people who argue on behalf of Bradman's greatness over all other batsmen have never seen him bat (or seen very little of him) and base their entire judgement on his stats.
yoda Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 The crux of the argument was that most people who argue on behalf of Bradman's greatness over all other batsmen have never seen him bat (or seen very little of him) and base their entire judgement on his stats. Having watched someone play has never been a criteria for one to acknowledge the greatness of a player. Not many have seen Rod Laver or Roy Emerson play Tennis or watched clips of Jesse Owens and his famous runs in the Olympics. It doesn't mean they can't be recognized as ATGs. This is a classic case of fitting criteria to suit one's agenda. Bradman can't be brought into the ATG discussion cause you guys haven't seen him play. So what if people haven't seen him play? In some cases the stats are so convincing, a little common sense is sufficient to consider their AT Greatness.
The Outsider Posted November 21, 2011 Author Posted November 21, 2011 The GR Vishwanath innings came from robelinda's archives who most probably has footage of that entire series but only uploaded the important innings. There would certainly be more recorded footage of Vishwanath available than Bradman, though I am not sure how much is in the public domain and freely available online. Most of the footage would be clipped highlights. By putting up such footage one can even make a claim for Harbhajan being an all time great batsman. You would have to watch hours and hours and days and days of footage to get a feel of how exactly a batsman played like - how many people have done that? How many people have the time to do that? Anyhow, the main point here was that this S=G character keeps popping up with the same inane question in every other thread, even when the answers have been given. At the same time he peddles Dhyanchand and Viswanath as greats without having watched them play! Just wanted to close this irritating chapter, but looks like he is now claiming to have watched hours and hours of Viswanath's footage. I would love to know where. Reminds me of the guy from old ICF who claimed to have recording of Kapil's 175! The crux of the argument was that most people who argue on behalf of Bradman's greatness over all other batsmen have never seen him bat (or seen very little of him) and base their entire judgement on his stats. Stats, books, articles, eye witness accounts. There is tons and tons of cricket literature from those days about Bradman and cricket in general.
ganeshran Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Having watched someone play has never been a criteria for one to acknowledge the greatness of a player. Not many have seen Rod Laver or Roy Emerson play Tennis or watched clips of Jesse Owens and his famous runs in the Olympics. It doesn't mean they can't be recognized as ATGs. This is a classic case of fitting criteria to suit one's agenda. Bradman can't be brought into the ATG discussion cause you guys haven't seen him play. So what if people haven't seen him play? In some cases the stats are so convincing, a little common sense is sufficient to consider their AT Greatness. Yoda, I think you didnt follow the earlier discussion that was taking place. This was not an argument to suggest that Bradman cannot be held as an ATG because no footage of him is available. The argument was that most people who so passionately assert the greatness of Bradman over all other players go by no other evidence apart from his high average. I have no interest in questioning Bradman's status as an ATG.
Sachin=GOD Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Having watched someone play has never been a criteria for one to acknowledge the greatness of a player. Not many have seen Rod Laver or Roy Emerson play Tennis or watched clips of Jesse Owens and his famous runs in the Olympics. It doesn't mean they can't be recognized as ATGs. This is a classic case of fitting criteria to suit one's agenda. Bradman can't be brought into the ATG discussion cause you guys haven't seen him play. So what if people haven't seen him play? In some cases the stats are so convincing, a little common sense is sufficient to consider their AT Greatness. if you want to rate players without having watched them play then you are free to do so but I can't say that Bradman is the best player ever without having watched him bat.
pensionplan Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 The first away series to be televised in India was the India-Pakistan series where Viswanath was a walking wicket. I don't remember exactly' date=' but there weren't too many home series televised before that either. [/quote']Actually you are right. That Pak series was the last for Vishy and the only full series telecast from the Sub-continent in which Vishy played. There could be some footage taped at the venues in late 70's and early 80's but nothing was ever shown live or even as highlights at the time on Doordarshan. LOL. He just tried to get a little cheeky but nevertheless caught with his pants down.
Sachin=GOD Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Most of the footage would be clipped highlights. By putting up such footage one can even make a claim for Harbhajan being an all time great batsman. You would have to watch hours and hours and days and days of footage to get a feel of how exactly a batsman played like - how many people have done that? How many people have the time to do that? Anyhow, the main point here was that this S=G character keeps popping up with the same inane question in every other thread, even when the answers have been given. At the same time he peddles Dhyanchand and Viswanath as greats without having watched them play! Just wanted to close this irritating chapter, but looks like he is now claiming to have watched hours and hours of Viswanath's footage. I would love to know where. Reminds me of the guy from old ICF who claimed to have recording of Kapil's 175! Stats, books, articles, eye witness accounts. There is tons and tons of cricket literature from those days about Bradman and cricket in general. that is the point - you think that mere literature is enough to not only judge a player but also to call him the greatest of all time but I think its not.
Lurker Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Here is a challenge - find me more than half an hour of Viswanath's available footage online. Did you thump your desk as you wrote that? :giggle: Seriously though, if such footages are found it would be one good thing that ever came out of such SRT vs Richards vs Bradman vs whoever thread. It is kind of embarassing to be unable to see some of our very own greats, and even worse to note that most of the footage that we do indeed end up seeing would be from non-Indian sources. Nothing against non-Indian sources, in fact it is greatly appreciated, but it is ridiculous on how we have treasured our own greats. That being said you should go easy on Sachin = God he is probably more sane than fanatic :winky: Others would have come out already with a Ernie Tosack comparison :--D:--D
pensionplan Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Others would have come out already with a Ernie Tosack comparison :--D:--DHa..Ha..
The Outsider Posted November 21, 2011 Author Posted November 21, 2011 that is the point - you think that mere literature is enough to not only judge a player but also to call him the greatest of all time but I think its not. Arre, that's why I am asking you where is this hours and hours of footage of Viswanath you have seen to rank and judge him amongst the top 5 Indian batsmen?
Sachin=GOD Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 One thing I will say - I don't have the time or the patience to stalk someone all over ICF or keep records of all their posts so that I can do nit picking later on in order to create threads using one or two words from their posts :cantstop:
The Outsider Posted November 21, 2011 Author Posted November 21, 2011 Did you thump your desk as you wrote that? :giggle: LOL! But I've searched in the past and come up with little, so know that there is little around and certainly not enough for someone to rank a batsman on if he chooses to do it on the basis of video footage. Seriously though, if such footages are found it would be one good thing that ever came out of such SRT vs Richards vs Bradman vs whoever thread. It is kind of embarassing to be unable to see some of our very own greats, and even worse to note that most of the footage that we do indeed end up seeing would be from non-Indian sources. Nothing against non-Indian sources, in fact it is greatly appreciated, but it is ridiculous on how we have treasured our own greats. I doubt there are any. As I mentioned, the India-Pakistan series, which was Viswanath's last was the first away series to be televised in India. I doubt places like India, Pakistan, West Indies would keep any decent archives for what was televised also. The only decent footage one can hope for from those times is England and Australia. That being said you should go easy on Sachin = God he is probably more sane than fanatic :winky: Others would have come out already with a Ernie Tosack comparison :--D:--D Okay. I'll let him be and quietly wait for him to direct us to a treasure of Viswanath's batting footage. :giggle: Classic case of an online waste of time - instead of this guy admitting that he was trying to sell a dummy with the claims of Viswanath's footage, he is still putting up a show as if he really has watched hours of these videos before appointing Viswanath in the top 5, and us fools who regard Bradman.
Sachin=GOD Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Arre' date=' that's why I am asking you where is this hours and hours of footage of Viswanath you have seen to rank and judge him amongst the top 5 Indian batsmen?[/quote'] you show enough footage of Bradman to prove that he is the best ever then I'll show enough footage of Viswanath to prove that he is good enough to be among the top 5 Indian batsmen.
pensionplan Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 First Chris Martin was brought into the thread and compared with Gavaskar but even the thread was not completely derailed so one of my posts was quoted and then Viswanath was brought into a discussion about Richards and Goddy :hysterical: So, whats next - Rahul Sharma's bowling action or Kevin Peitersen's haircut that will be brought into the thread to further derail it :phehehe:Are you so shameless that even after getting caught napping you continue yapping.
ganeshran Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Most of the footage would be clipped highlights. By putting up such footage one can even make a claim for Harbhajan being an all time great batsman. You would have to watch hours and hours and days and days of footage to get a feel of how exactly a batsman played like - how many people have done that? How many people have the time to do that? I have done that for Sachin's innings :P But coming to your actual argument, irrational defense of players does exist - that cannot be denied. But so does irrational criticism -- applying multiple filters on data just to show a player in poor light. Stats, books, articles, eye witness accounts. There is tons and tons of cricket literature from those days about Bradman and cricket in general. Even though there are lot of books, articles present, how many defenders of Bradman actually go through this material before coming to the conclusion that questioning his greatness is prohibited because he averaged 99.94. A lot of Bradman fans fail to see him being less in any aspect than modern day batsmen because he averaged the highest during his times - something which may or may not be replicated in today's era
ganeshran Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 btw here is a feature on Vishwanath. Its a Ten Sports program. http://shahneel23.blogspot.com/2011/06/top-ten-batsman.html Though it contains more interviews than footage, its great to watch
Lurker Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 WTF -dBTEwUyt6s Never thought I would see the great Satyen Kappu on ICF! Needless to say it takes Bihari Babu to settle the discourse :--D
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