chainsmoker1985 Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Please share your valuable inputs. P.S.- I don't want to add any poll coz I want expert views on this International complex matter.
achilles Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 No. Kashmir belongs to India. Kashmiris are, have and always will be fellow Indians.
chainsmoker1985 Posted February 23, 2012 Author Posted February 23, 2012 No. Kashmir belongs to India. Kashmiris are' date=' have and always will be fellow Indians.[/quote'] I completely agree and I am of the same views as you. But, what I wanted to ask is- will it encourage them to go for it again and start that independence movement again.
anotherhawkeye Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Lot of counties have gotten independence... why is this one different as far as Kashmir is concerned?
hari504504 Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 I'd rather Kashmir be independent than us spending enormous military resources on it (not a proxy China or pak state.. whether that is possible is a different discussion) If Kashmir can be completely demilitarized by all parties, except for local Law and order units, that is the best way forward.
kabira Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 ^don't be naive. If Kashmir goes, we would have military presence in Himachal Pradesh and Jammu etc..do you think our neighbors will ever let us sleep in peace?
hari504504 Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Kashmir would end up being a buffer area if all goes well - remember it would be demilitarised.. we wouldn't need such a heavy military presence in the north..resources can be moved east where it is badly needed IMO I don't understand why we are spending so much of the tax payer's money on Kashmir if the rest of the citizens will never have full rights on kashmir... we can't buy property there etc.
bajrang Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 balochistan makes up for nearly 50 percent of pakistan's land. pakistan cant afford its loss. if it does happen it will only weaken pakistan and their abilty to create disturbance in kashmir. so things will only gets better in kashmir. atleast we have common history with kashmiris, OTOH balochi ppl have absolutely no common history with anybody in south asia.yet they actually wanted to join india at the time of partition.
surajmal Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Kashmir would end up being a buffer area if all goes well - remember it would be demilitarised.. we wouldn't need such a heavy military presence in the north..resources can be moved east where it is badly needed IMO I don't understand why we are spending so much of the tax payer's money on Kashmir if the rest of the citizens will never have full rights on kashmir... we can't buy property there etc. you mean like tibet was supposed to be a buffer area?
The Outsider Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 you mean like tibet was supposed to be a buffer area? Do you have any clue about history?
chainsmoker1985 Posted February 23, 2012 Author Posted February 23, 2012 I'd rather Kashmir be independent than us spending enormous military resources on it (not a proxy China or pak state.. whether that is possible is a different discussion) If Kashmir can be completely demilitarized by all parties, except for local Law and order units, that is the best way forward. With due respect bro, I don't agree on this. After spending so much money, lives and time on it, you think now we should just leave it. Not only it sends negative signals to our neighbors but it also discourages our army and military who have spent so many lives there in last around 30 years. You simply don't want to discourage your forces. No country do that or should do that.
chainsmoker1985 Posted February 23, 2012 Author Posted February 23, 2012 balochistan makes up for nearly 50 percent of pakistan's land. pakistan cant afford its loss. if it does happen it will only weaken pakistan and their abilty to create disturbance in kashmir. so things will only gets better in kashmir. atleast we have common history with kashmiris, OTOH balochi ppl have absolutely no common history with anybody in south asia.yet they actually wanted to join india at the time of partition. I understand but both Pakistan and Iran would never want Balochistan to gain independence coz the bigger part of Balochi is in pakistan but there is about 20% of Balochi land in Iran as well. So, one's loss would might prove the loss of other one too.
surajmal Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Do you have any clue about history? No. So, please enlighten me, your eminence.
The Outsider Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 No. So' date=' please enlighten me, your eminence.[/quote'] Good that you admitted to be clueless - I have no intentions of educating morons about basic facts. Read them up if you are concerned - either way your illogical comments don't bother more than a passing glance and 30 seconds on the keyboard for a retort which will have you "Google".
hari504504 Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Something's got to give, what is the point keeping it in the long term if noone's budging?, if we are waiting for Pak to disintegrate - big bro China will step into all of their Kashmir. apart from losing the military strategic vantage points - which would equally affect all 3 parties if Kashmir(ours and POK and whatever China has) is demilitarised. Does the army really enjoy being there ? noone wants to be perpetually fighting a local population. The Hurriyat doesn't want the Army there - do they represent the people ? Will the pandits really go back to the valley now that they've all established roots all over the country ? the violence will never really be snuffed out, and while our best troops are over there looking for a needle in a haystack - we are losing/in the danger of losing territory in the North East - nukes or not, China can easily do another hit-and-run land grab.
Yoda-esque Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Good that you admitted to be clueless - I have no intentions of educating morons about basic facts. Read them up if you are concerned - either way your illogical comments don't bother more than a passing glance and 30 seconds on the keyboard for a retort which will have you "Google". You are a Mod,aren't you?
surajmal Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Good that you admitted to be clueless - I have no intentions of educating morons about basic facts. Read them up if you are concerned - either way your illogical comments don't bother more than a passing glance and 30 seconds on the keyboard for a retort which will have you "Google". ajeeb baat hai. Here I thought I was gonna get a lesson from our resident historian. Mila kya? been bajaata hua chew tiya.
The Outsider Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 You are a Mod' date='aren't you?[/quote'] No.
surajmal Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Something's got to give, what is the point keeping it in the long term if noone's budging?, if we are waiting for Pak to disintegrate - big bro China will step into all of their Kashmir. apart from losing the military strategic vantage points - which would equally affect all 3 parties if Kashmir(ours and POK and whatever China has) is demilitarised. Does the army really enjoy being there ? noone wants to be perpetually fighting a local population. The Hurriyat doesn't want the Army there - do they represent the people ? Will the pandits really go back to the valley now that they've all established roots all over the country ? the violence will never really be snuffed out, and while our best troops are over there looking for a needle in a haystack - we are losing/in the danger of losing territory in the North East - nukes or not, China can easily do another hit-and-run land grab. If the army moves out China will move in the next day. China has been looking to secure a secondary route for their fuel supplies (among other things), since primary route goes through Indian Ocean and through the backyard of south east Asian countries (many of whom are starting to doubt china's intentions). Its not a matter of if Army enjoys being there. Its a job. Kashmir cannot be left abandoned at any cost. You have two wolves in your immediate neighbourhood. There is only one way to deal with this islamic deemak. Do what Ranjit Singh did. Force is the only solution. Hurriyat and their ilk don't understand anything else. Besides Insurgency has been on a steady decline over the last decade and the result is solely due to Army's efforts. As for China moving into POK. As soon as they do that, they lose any claim on Arunachal or Tibet (India has accepted China's claim on Tibet only as long as Tibet has autonomy). China moving into POK would essentially be a sign of war. Then what is stopping Indian Navy from blockading China bound ships? And why does it have to be Kashmir or North East? Besides do you realize how much investment India has done (and is doing) in J&K?
hari504504 Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 I am curious about investments in Kashmir, from what I have read Kashmir only has Tourism and Farming. None of the Indian big names have invested in our Kashmir yet. Is there anything I missed ? The only big investment I see is our armed forces over there and that I agree is not worth it..tax payer's money going down the drain as none of the citizens have any right to move into Kashmir and buy property. Infact we can barely hoist the tricolours there without having tanks escorting it. When I say demilitarise, it would mean all 3 occupiers - Pak,Ind and China; of Kashmir should stand down..and give the resulting entity autonomy in running its affairs. Not just India withdrawing its troops..which ofcourse will never happen. In that case China simply can't just walk-in again as there is no 'disputed territory' for them to argue their case..unlike how things are in the N.E. No country has been victorious in the long term when it has been fighting the local population..the French, the British, the Spanish are all examples right in front of us. We'd have a better chance of having a friendly government in Kashmir if we play the cards right.
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