Bumper Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 Didn't know McGrath, Gillespie, and Warne play for the West Indies. Just because England have been cr@pping against Australia takes away from the knock? Not sure i understand what u are saying here ? Again causality. Warne was not a big but huge name before that tour and there was the talk of him destroying India on spinning tracks. That he could never come close to doing it, is a lot of credit to that knock We were trailing by 80-90 runs on the first innings in a low scoring match. Warney was the lone warrior in the bowling lineup. Rest were no-namers. And spin is every Indian batsman's bread & butter. Am not sure how you big up the degree of difficulty here ? Ask yourself again, do you honestly think this knock or the 123 is comparable to the ones i listed ? Doesnt that paint you that Mr. Greatness has only this much to show in such a long career ?
The Outsider Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 Ask yourself again, do you honestly think this knock or the 123 is comparable to the ones i listed ? Both are certainly better than Pietersen's 158.
The Outsider Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 wait a minute ... isnt playing seamers on seaming tracks not a bread and butter thingy for KP I would have credited Pietersen if it was a seaming track. The Oval wicket was as dead as a calf after a lioness has had 10 minutes with it. And Lee breathing fire? The guy was kicked around like a football the entire Ashes.
Bumper Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 1000 excuses, ifs and buts, almost done etc = NOT done Bottom line: Pietersen pulled a stunner facing BIG ODDs in a crunch 4th innings giving England its biggest glory of the decade in cricket. Thats what makes this innings special. When Tendulkar does that, u dont have to convince me, i'll take notice right away. He has an opportunity to shut me up, right away. Let him win this series against England (something we havent done in 2 decades), i'll stop criticising this man.
The Outsider Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 Bottom line: Pietersen pulled a stunner facing BIG ODDs in a crunch 4th innings giving England its biggest glory of the decade in cricket. 4th innings? It was in the 3rd innings and it was on a dead pitch. It was a good innings but nowhere close to some of Tendulkar's. Now do you disqualify it or not? Let him win this series against England (something we havent done in 2 decades), i'll stop criticising this man. I am pretty sure you will come up with new criteria like the phase of the moon and cloud cover on Mars if that happens.
Lurker Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 1000 excuses, ifs and buts, almost done etc = NOT done Quite correct. Look guys this is not some non-Indian website where people are baying for Sachin's blood. No. What many of us have an issue with is/are certain attributes of Sachin's career that has become increasingly hard to overlook. More so in part few years. A man who has played about 138 Tests, and about 220 plus innings should not have to fall back on semantics to show top notch innings. We should be able to pull atleast 25-30 out of those 220 innings for an all-time great batsman. xx
Bumper Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 I just checked that 158 scorecard ... turns out that out of a possible 450 overs only 310 were bowled ... thats more than day and half lost to rain and bad light .... and Brett Lee did not even take a single wicket in that Innings and had a grand sum of ONE WICKET in the First innings ... soo much for breathing fire ... :haha: If anything Flintoff should have been credited with the honors for reducing Aus from 185 for no loss to 367 All out ... with Simon Jones pulling out due to injury. So what if it rained ? Does that wipe out the degree of difficulty, no way! Aussies still had time to win the game, had Pietersen been dismissed cheaply. Speaking of rain, i'll bring up two instances: 1) Remember the Durban test vs SA in our latest fiasco in Saffie land ? Was close to a day's play lost because of rain ? Yes Did SRT have an opportunity to save the test ? Yes Did he poop under pressure ? Yes If SRT had done half of what Pietersen had done, we would have saved the Bangalore, Durban, Mumbai test matches. Utter the word "pressure" and watch this man poop every single time. 2) Why go that far ? We just drew the test at Lords with ample help from Dhoni & rain. Does that take away any credit from Dhoni ? Absolutely not.
Bumper Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 4th innings? It was in the 3rd innings and it was on a dead pitch. It was a good innings but nowhere close to some of Tendulkar's. Now do you disqualify it or not? I am pretty sure you will come up with new criteria like the phase of the moon and cloud cover on Mars if that happens. My bad. Read my post addressing Bheem above. 4th or 3rd does not alter the significance of the innings from Pietersen. It is still great for the degree of difficulty it came under and the amount of success it yielded as output. And yes, success is the most important factor. Even worldcup is not as big compared to the Ashes, for England. And heck even if Pietersen's innings isnt great, how does that make Tendulkar any better ? He still has a grand total of zero great knocks in Tests.
Rajiv Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 Yeh hain hamare Indian fan! To save their own heroes they can not resist but take a dig at India's greatest all-rounder and Wisden's Indian cricketer of the century. And mind you it is not about his performance but what a poosey he was. Holy the day Sachin takes India to a WC win you would be free to shout whatever you want to, else keep quiet about Kapil Dev. The man was instrumental in winning 1983 WC, 1985 WSC, 1985 Asia Cup and tons of other "pressure" situation. What exactly has Sachin won for us?? xxx Lurks, cmon man Indian Cricket in the 90s were all about Tendulkar Indian cricket was a joke without him
Rajiv Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 How many world cups did Bradman' date=' Lara, Hobbs , Sutclife, Boycs, Sobers, Vishy, Hadlee, Botham, Chappells and Lurkers favourite Barry Richards win between them .... FAT ZERO .[/quote'] Bheem, plz check stats..maybe we can find something on them.. bhago baho dhoondo :haha:
Bumper Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 Well then why does the 155 not out ... not qualify in your book then ? If you say spinners (for SRT) then I say seamers (for KP) ... if you say match situation I say tendulkar came in to bat with India less than 50 ahead with 2 wkts down and a spinner smarting from his sucess in the 1st innings ( Warne took 4 wkts in the 1st innings including SRT's) and no prospect of Rain comming to help us had we collapsed from there. And yes KP's innings was not as significant as you make it out to be ... I already explained you why ... the most important aspect being time left and the no.of runs scored .. check the score card and look at the score at end of days play on Day 4. I have heard a few rebuttals on Pietersen's 158 so far. Here is why i rate that innings higher. Glory, Bheem glory. The greater the glory, greater the stage, greater the odds and greater the value of the innings. Ashes is bigger than a world cup for England. Pietersen's innings was the difference between England laying their hands on the Ashes vs Aussies keeping it. As for SRT's 155, i have already given my 3 reasons in this thread.
Bumper Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 Thats just your opinion (And my take is pointed out in previous posts)... But if that is the case please tell me how the 241+60 Not out is any different ...it prevented Aussies from regaining the BG trophy didnt it ? The difference is England snatched the Ashes from the Aussies after two decades. 241+60 did not yield the telling result -- a series win against the Aussies. For that reason, its greatness is not quite there with the rest.
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