Technique of batsman in the video : Is it exquisite or not ?

[Raghav_12]

When did i say Toshack is better than Wasim.. you made the comparison so you find the answer yourself. if you rate wasim Akram is the best bowler' date=' per his own admission Martin crowe is the best batsman he has ever bowled to. Hence Martin crowe > Tendulkar. [b']Btw Tendulkar averages 32 against Pakistan in tests that was played by Akram.

Out of the tests that Akram played against Sachin, majority of them came when he was a kid of 16 and was playing his first test series. Pretty sure you were aware of this fact but chose to ignore, just to gain some brownie points over internet.

[Raghav_12]

Nicklaus is considered greatest by many, at least till TW or someone else overtakes his GS record, Ali is considered the greatest of all time, .... A lot of these guys got their records 40-50 years ago, and they are still considered ATGs.

40 years ago means, people talking about Gavaskar who played his first test match 41 years ago. If that was the case I could have understood that. Problem here is that people are declaring people from a century ago as better than players from today (Hobbs made his debut in 1908), just because some poet or writer wrote flowerishly about them. For me it is clear. If a 50 year old grandpa can find a place in top 11 of the best team in the world, then today we are not playing the same sport. They deserve all the credit for taking cricket ahead and to the stage where Cricket is today. But as players, I won't compare them with today's players.

[vvvslaxman]

Out of the tests that Akram played against Sachin' date=' majority of them came when he was a kid of 16 and was playing his first test series. Pretty sure you were aware of this fact but chose to ignore, just to gain some brownie points over internet.[/quote'] Let us substract that series.. then he has played 3 tests against Pakistan with Akram. His average was 30. This was when he was at his peak and Akram was not exactly in his prime.

[Raghav_12]

Let us substract that series.. then he has played 3 tests against Pakistan with Akram. His average was 30. This was when he was at his peak and Akram was not exactly in his prime.

You should have suntracted that series in first post itself, if you were honest about your argument. About the point you made in this post, you don't talk about average and other statistical measures based on three data points. In that series he played that innings of 130+ in chennai defying Akram. In Kolkata he was given out very unfortunately. Better measure would have been his ODI performances vs Akram. He played around 25 ODI's against Akram and averages 37, which I think is good enough. I give you one more stat to make you happy. See how much Sachin averages in ODI's against Akram played in Pakistan. You would be delighted.

[vvvslaxman]

Yes, it was. But you don't talk about average and other statistical measures based on three data points. In that series he played that innings of 130+ in chennai defying Akram. In Kolkata he was given out very unfortunately. Better measure would have been his ODI performances vs Akram. He played around 25 ODI's against Akram and averages 37, which I think is good enough.

In ODIs... there are restrictions for bowlers. So i won't use that as a platform to judge.

[Raghav_12]

In ODIs... there are restrictions for bowlers. So i won't use that as a platform to judge.

But three tests are enough to judge? PS: Sorry, I edited my previous post but you had already responded to that.

[vvvslaxman]

But three tests are enough to judge? PS: Sorry, I edited my previous post but you had already responded to that.

I am not the one who compared Akram with toshack pointlessly to prove Sachin is better than Bradman.

[Raghav_12]

I am not the one who compared Akram with toshack pointlessly to prove Sachin is better than Bradman.

Point is, when we ourselves know that a particular stat is not correct representation then we should avoid using that stat. It unnecessary misleads people. I am pretty sure that if some Pakistani had used this stat to show how Akram dominated Sachin, you would have discarded that stat in identical way as I did. I am not denying the fact that some bowlers kind of have had a hold on Sachin. McGrath in definitely one of them and Akram is not one of them.

[vvvslaxman]

Point is, when we ourselves know that a particular stat is not correct representation then we should avoid using that stat. It unnecessary misleads people. I am pretty sure that if some Pakistani had used this stat to show how Akram dominated Sachin, you would have discarded that stat in identical way as I did. I am not denying the fact that some bowlers kind of have had a hold on Sachin. McGrath in definitely one of them and Akram is not one of them.

That is why when you compare players across era you should only judge them based on what achieved in their era not what they would have achieved in another era based on few videos. Argument works both ways. So it is a futile exercise. Tendulkar played in an era where akram played is one of the point. But they conveniently forget that he played an era where he also faced the likes of Pushpakumara, Mbangwa, Rubel Hossain. There are enough crappy bowlers in this era too.

[Lurker]

Problem here is that people are declaring people from a century ago as better than players from today (Hobbs made his debut in 1908), just because some poet or writer wrote flowerishly about them.

Who are these poets or writers you are yapping about? Does Richie Benaud count amongst those? Or Bill Lawry for that matter? What about very own Prabhus and Ramchands etc. Just because YOU are ignorant does not mean everybody else should be while celebrating a great.

For me it is clear. If a 50 year old grandpa can find a place in top 11 of the best team in the world, then today we are not playing the same sport.

Please clear it further. This Grandpa you talk about had runs at 60 when he was the same age as the Marathi budhao. Does that convince you now, or do I see another excuse coming?

[Lurker]

Out of the tests that Akram played against Sachin' date=' majority of them came when he was a kid of 16 and was playing his first test series. Pretty sure you were aware of this fact but chose to ignore, just to gain some brownie points over internet.[/quote'] This is freaking hilarious. :hysterical::hysterical: Wasim Akram could not dismiss Gavaskar and that is discarded because Akram was a raw Umesh Yadav in 1987. Wasim Akram's performance against Sachin is discarded in 1989 becase Wasim Akram was a big dawg in a matter of 2 years. You and Mh need to get a room and come back with one solid excuse, whatever that is. Hilarious to see how ALL of such retarded nonsense seem to emanate from ONLY one block - SRT fan club!! Good to see even in this generation of fans those who relish Srinath, Kumble, Dravid & VVS are not so brain-dead.:two_thumbs_up::two_thumbs_up:

[Sooda]

If doing a Toshack vs Akram comparision it should be borne in mind that Toshack was a left arm version of Praveen Kumar really. Swing, cut and accuracy was his forte, he was not even a strike bowler I think its fair to say... tied the batsmen down as a 3rd or 4th seamer once Lindwall Miller did the new ball damage.

[vvvslaxman]

If doing a Toshack vs Akram comparision it should be borne in mind that Toshack was a left arm version of Praveen Kumar really. Swing' date=' cut and accuracy was his forte, he was not even a strike bowler I think its fair to say... tied the batsmen down as a 3rd or 4th seamer once Lindwall Miller did the new ball damage.[/quote'] BB picked him to compare.. he couldn't really compare Maharoof with Larwood could he.

[King Tendulkar]

If you get a time machine and bring bradman of 30s to 2012 to face modern bowlers, he would .......... O actually I cant be bothered!!!

[Raghav_12]

Who are these poets or writers you are yapping about? Does Richie Benaud count amongst those? Or Bill Lawry for that matter? What about very own Prabhus and Ramchands etc. Just because YOU are ignorant does not mean everybody else should be while celebrating a great. Please clear it further. This Grandpa you talk about had runs at 60 when he was the same age as the Marathi budhao. Does that convince you now, or do I see another excuse coming?

Cool down. You can afford to talk with some dignity. To the highlighted part. There are two ways to explain the phenomena that you talked about. Phenomena - Grandpa's of 60 from old era scoring more than what current players score when they are past 35. Explanation 1 - In old times grandpa's at 60 used to be more fit than what current bunch of players, across the world, are at age of 35. Explanation 2- In old times, cricket standards were so poor that you really need not to be fit to play cricket and score big runs. That's why these granpa's could score so many runs. What is your choice, Lurker? I may be ignorant but I am logical.

[Raghav_12]

Who are these poets or writers you are yapping about? Does Richie Benaud count amongst those? Or Bill Lawry for that matter? What about very own Prabhus and Ramchands etc. Just because YOU are ignorant does not mean everybody else should be while celebrating a great. Please clear it further. This Grandpa you talk about had runs at 60 when he was the same age as the Marathi budhao. Does that convince you now, or do I see another excuse coming?

and using word Marathi doesn't irk me. Geograohically speaking, I would be more Bihari than a Marathi.

[Lurker]

Cool down. You can afford to talk with some dignity.

You should not be the one to talk about dignity when you are not dignified enough to bestow respect to yesteryear greats. You are the one who started the nonsense of these ATG being so because of flowery language. Dont beg for dignity when you dont some in the first place.

To the highlighted part. There are two ways to explain the phenomena that you talked about. Phenomena - Grandpa's of 60 from old era scoring more than what current players score when they are past 35. Explanation 1 - In old times grandpa's at 60 used to be more fit than what current bunch of players, across the world, are at age of 35. Explanation 2- In old times, cricket standards were so poor that you really need not to be fit to play cricket and score big runs. That's why these granpa's could score so many runs. What is your choice, Lurker? I may be ignorant but I am logical.

You are ignorant (thanks for conceding) and also illogical. How many else Jack Hobbs you know of that you arrived at this whole generalization of Grandpas of 60s scoring more runs than todays budhaos?? The last I checked there was only one Hobbs, and he was an outlier....unlike Sachin who is well one amongst 3 best batsman of his era. Does that sound better now?

[Lurker]

and using word Marathi doesn't irk me. Geograohically speaking' date=' I would be more Bihari than a Marathi.[/quote'] That was a statement of fact rather than a regional one. What now? I should stop saying ganguly a bengali??? And they call me a PC :haha:

[Lurker]

When did i say Toshack is better than Wasim.. you made the comparison so you find the answer yourself. if you rate wasim Akram is the best bowler' date=' per his own admission Martin crowe is the best batsman he has ever bowled to. [b']Hence Martin crowe > Tendulkar. Btw Tendulkar averages 32 against Pakistan in tests that was played by Akram.

Yep. Wasim Akram did pick Crowe as the best batsman he bowled to. And I am not surprised. No other batsman played Akram so effortlessly. He would often pick Akram's swinging deliveries on his leg stump and non-chalantly flick uppishly over square leg area for six. Crowe was a very good batsman and for a time the best batsman in the world. No wonder he was picked to replace Viv Richards at Somerset, an act that led to Richards-Garner-Botham rebellion. His average of mid to high 40s does not do him justice. I would pick him in a heart beat ahead of Jayawardenes, Yohanas of modern era.

[Raghav_12]

You should not be the one to talk about dignity when you are not dignified enough to bestow respect to yesteryear greats. You are the one who started the nonsense of these ATG being so because of flowery language. Dont beg for dignity when you dont some in the first place. You are ignorant (thanks for conceding) and also illogical. How many else Jack Hobbs you know of that you arrived at this whole generalization of Grandpas of 60s scoring more runs than todays budhaos?? The last I checked there was only one Hobbs, and he was an outlier....unlike Sachin who is well one amongst 3 best batsman of his era. Does that sound better now?

Haha.. then what so many grandpa's,other than Hobbs, were doing in world's two best teams, if they were not able to score runs. Pace bowling, I guess. Just compare the number of 40+ players who could play international cricket in last 25 years and how many played between two WW's. You'll see Hobbs was not the only one. There was a whole army of those.