Crookbond Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 I agree. I just wanted to confirm the present position. PM of country should be having access to all the financial statistics. He is doing more than 300 rallies apart from his daily hectic routine of 16 hrs. This was one of the 1000000 sentences which he said that too neither in a financial summit nor in a official meeting. This was said in an election rally. Saying that Haryana is 8th or 4th would not make major difference as both are decent positions. Now their is a team' date=' strategy team n content writing team who is there with PM, we cannot blame PM for not scruitinizong each and every content of his speech unless and until it is as imp as UN summit or 15th Aug speech.[/quote'] Here is the crucial point you miss - this isn't the first time he has distorted facts. Once is co-incidence, twice is a mistake any more is a pattern. He's got this compulsive habit to distort facts and lie.
Crookbond Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 what he says is correct. He is responsible for petrol prices being cut at the pump No, he isn't responsible for it.
Crookbond Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 oh bhai everyday while returning from office Arvind was daily ranting through FM, "Jab dilli main humari sarkar thi to corruption kam ho gaya tha". What exactly has Modi said which I should say is wrong, please let me know I will surely say that. I gave you the exact and complete quote from Kejriwal. It's up to you to decide how you want to put that into perspective. I won't be discussing this henceforth. The burden of proof lies on the person making the claim. Can you tell me how what he has said is correct and why should it be said on an election rally? Please look at the context (using petrol prices for election campaign) and give me an honest answer.
G_B_ Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 No' date=' he isn't responsible for it.[/quote'] yes he is....
Crookbond Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 yes he is.... Prove it - the burden of proof lies on the person making the claim.
Khalpat Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Here is the crucial point you miss - this isn't the first time he has distorted facts. Once is co-incidence' date=' twice is a mistake any more is a pattern. He's got this compulsive habit to distort facts and lie.[/quote'] Ok DM, now you will have to make sure whether this was a distorted fact presented deliberately or it was a goof up due to the Alphabetical order which you sggested beforehand. If the case was of distorted fact, why will he say Haryana is at 8th position because being at 8th is not such a bad thing when there are more than 28 states in India. He could have made it more impactful by saying 16th or 20th. Anyways a lie is a lie even if it is of one position here and there right? If the case was of goof up then he would have surely took the class of his strategical and content writing team about which we are not aware. Lastly, we are not sure what is the current position of state wise Per Capita income. He as a PM might have had the access to the documents and their might be a chance that he is correct also. Bottom line, this is a no issue unless and until we are sure as to what exactly we are trying to blame him for :winky:.
G_B_ Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Prove it - the burden of proof lies on the person making the claim. How does the mechanism at the pump for petrol in India work? Ie whats the function? (1) Brent crude barrel of oil (2) Exchange rate of USD to the Rupee because oil is traded in dollars (3) Mechanisms of refining and delivery (4) retail costs Now, critically among the 4 Modi is directly responsible for (2) , lets keep in mind that the price of oil at the pump initially spiked in India not because of the barrel of brent crude, but because the rupee slid under the UPA from around 50-64/65 (peaking at 65.71) . That was the major reason for the increase in the first place. What caused this slide in the rupee? A wide current account deficit whereby India was importing more than exporting. It caused India to be classified as the fragile 5. Currency traders globally effectively thought the UPA government was incompetent and decided to bet against the rupee. Now what has modi done? Since he has been elected there have been large capital inflows into the country. Via FDI remittances etc and this is also visible in the stock market jump in the last years or so when the momentum behind modi has built. Ie global investors decided that Modi was a man they wanted to back. A similar trend can be seen emerging for Marina Silva in Brazil. This has reduced the current account deficit. Indian inflows are improving against outflows. In turn the rupee has held stable to the USD at 61/62. Allowing India to reap the benefits of a falling brent crude price. In summation, there is no point if brent crude calls to $50 a barrel if the rupee falls to 150 to the USD. Price of oil at the pump in India will not change. While the government is not responsible for the price of brent crude it can directly impact the price of oil internally within its borders via macroeconomic policies which are reflected in its currency. Maybe you need to think things through. There are a lot of developing countries where the price of oil at the pump has increased locally because their currencies depreciated against the USD
Crookbond Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Ok DM, now you will have to make sure whether this was a distorted fact presented deliberately or it was a goof up due to the Alphabetical order which you sggested beforehand. If the case was of distorted fact, why will he say Haryana is at 8th position because being at 8th is not such a bad thing when there are more than 28 states in India. He could have made it more impactful by saying 16th or 20th. Anyways a lie is a lie even if it is of one position here and there right? If the case was of goof up then he would have surely took the class of his strategical and content writing team about which we are not aware. Lastly, we are not sure what is the current position of state wise Per Capita income. He as a PM might have had the access to the documents and their might be a chance that he is correct also. Bottom line, this is a no issue unless and until we are sure as to what exactly we are trying to blame him for :winky:. He confused alphabetical with numerical order. He keeps repeating it that is the problem. We don't know if he has taken task to. No - we do not know the current position. Please note that information of individual states are with the states not the PM - High School Civics. Also, in case he has "confidential information" he should have mentioned that. No matter what way you spin this, he did distort and mislead.
Khalpat Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 I gave you the exact and complete quote from Kejriwal. It's up to you to decide how you want to put that into perspective. I won't be discussing this henceforth. The burden of proof lies on the person making the claim. Can you tell me how what he has said is correct and why should it be said on an election rally? Please look at the context (using petrol prices for election campaign) and give me an honest answer. Its a tricky thing DM. Unfortunately, elections worldwide are not fought on the basis of one and two here and there facts. Election railles are all about creating perceptions, I will give you example: if my company wants to market itself in a new geography, the CEO would be telling many things about the company, many of which would be somethings which happened due to extenal forces but still CEO would be presenting them to impress the clients. If the Petrol prices would have increased somehow, wouldn't AAP and Congress would be blaming government for that. I am sure you would not have raised the concern then. Election Rallies are to build perception, Modi and BJP would be trying to create a good perception of theirs and Congress and oppositon would be doing the opposite.
seedhi Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Here is the crucial point you miss - this isn't the first time he has distorted facts. Once is co-incidence' date= twice is a mistake any more is a pattern. He's got this compulsive habit to distort facts and lie.Laughable. Anyone who makes a factual mistake three or more times is a compulsive liar?
Khalpat Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 He confused alphabetical with numerical order. He keeps repeating it that is the problem. We don't know if he has taken task to. No - we do not know the current position. Please note that information of individual states are with the states not the PM - High School Civics. Also, in case he has "confidential information" he should have mentioned that. No matter what way you spin this, he did distort and mislead. Ok. So ranking is also with state governments? And finance ministry, planning commission have no access to them that is what you are saying? Just asking I was very bad in High School Civics so not sure. And telling about the confidential information to villagers in Haryana is this really a big deal? This whole message was targeted to them not to you or me.
Crookbond Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 How does the mechanism at the pump for petrol in India work? Ie whats the function? (1) Brent crude barrel of oil (2) Exchange rate of USD to the Rupee because oil is traded in dollars (3) Mechanisms of refining and delivery (4) retail costs Now, critically among the 4 Modi is directly responsible for (2) , lets keep in mind that the price of oil at the pump initially spiked in India not because of the barrel of brent crude, but because the rupee slid under the UPA from around 50-64/65 (peaking at 65.71) . That was the major reason for the increase in the first place. What caused this slide in the rupee? A wide current account deficit whereby India was importing more than exporting. It caused India to be classified as the fragile 5. Currency traders globally effectively thought the UPA government was incompetent and decided to bet against the rupee. Now what has modi done? Since he has been elected there have been large capital inflows into the country. Via FDI remittances etc and this is also visible in the stock market jump in the last years or so when the momentum behind modi has built. Ie global investors decided that Modi was a man they wanted to back. A similar trend can be seen emerging for Marina Silva in Brazil. This has reduced the current account deficit. Indian inflows are improving against outflows. In turn the rupee has held stable to the USD at 61/62. Allowing India to reap the benefits of a falling brent crude price. In summation, there is no point if brent crude calls to $50 a barrel if the rupee falls to 150 to the USD. Price of oil at the pump in India will not change. While the government is not responsible for the price of brent crude it can directly impact the price of oil internally within its borders via macroeconomic policies which are reflected in its currency. Maybe you need to think things through. There are a lot of developing countries where the price of oil at the pump has increased locally because their currencies depreciated against the USD Thanks for explaining your position. I can reply to a lot of things but I want to comment on the US$ price which you seem to be over estimating. Six months before Modi came to power 10 Oct 2013 - 30 April 2014, the low and high prices of US$ is 59.7 and 63.8 The US$ was always stable around 61/62 even before Modi came to power.
seedhi Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 I gave you the exact and complete quote from Kejriwal. It's up to you to decide how you want to put that into perspective. I won't be discussing this henceforth. The burden of proof lies on the person making the claim. Can you tell me how what he has said is correct and why should it be said on an election rally? Please look at the context (using petrol prices for election campaign) and give me an honest answer.You are really funny. Kejriwal has made variations of that claim many times and at different fora. Here is the total lie he spoke at the CII event claiming the existence of some fictional Transparency International report. ...... "We have brought down corruption significantly. I have heard from somewhere that there is some unpublished report by Transparency International which says that corruption level has come down after our government," Kejriwal had said at the CII event on Monday. ....... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/indianews/article-2562358/Watchdog-slams-Kejriwals-claim-report-shows-corruption-rule.html
Crookbond Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Laughable. Anyone who makes a factual mistake three or more times is a compulsive liar? If that is what you got from what I said, then it's a misunderstanding on your part.
G_B_ Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Thanks for explaining your position. I can reply to a lot of things but I want to comment on the US$ price which you seem to be over estimating. Six months before Modi came to power 10 Oct 2013 - 30 April 2014' date=' the low and high prices of US$ is 59.7 and 63.8 The US$ was always stable around 61/62 even before Modi came to power.[/quote'] And maintaining it when the USD has appreciated against most global currencies like the euro has been a great challenge which he has achieved. Since a year ago, the USD has gone from 0.73 to the Euro to 0.79 and its increasing at a swift rate. Its that stability which we must credit to him.
Crookbond Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 You are really funny. Kejriwal has made variations of that claim many times and at different fora. Here is the total lie he spoke at the CII event claiming the existence of some fictional Transparency International report. Yes - and even there he says "I have heard from somewhere". But now, you will use your impressive divergence formula to move this debate from Modi to Kejriwal. Khalpat - I'm not sure if that was your aim but if it was you are successful. Usual suspects are already licking their lips.
Crookbond Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Ok. So ranking is also with state governments? And finance ministry, planning commission have no access to them that is what you are saying? Just asking I was very bad in High School Civics so not sure. And telling about the confidential information to villagers in Haryana is this really a big deal? This whole message was targeted to them not to you or me. The per capita income of each states is reported by the state governments. Based on the per capita income, you can get the ranks by doing a simple sort via descending order. Not that difficult to understand. All this information is public and such information can't be withheld. They are reported once every year - not in between. Accepting that Modi missed facts once again is also not a big deal. FYI - that speech was telecasted live in National TV. In addition, the moment you buy one product from Haryana (milk, water etc.) you have a stake in Haryana because you are paying taxes on it to the Haryana govt.
Crookbond Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 And maintaining it when the USD has appreciated against most global currencies like the euro has been a great challenge which he has achieved. Since a year ago, the USD has gone from 0.73 to the Euro to 0.79 and its increasing at a swift rate. Its that stability which we must credit to him. I just showed you that stability in USD was there 6 months before Modi came to power.
Khalpat Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 On a lighter note S=G, DM, hhuuhhh, Raghav and especially my dear friend Outty posting this for you guys, try to recite this prayer daily, you will feel better : जय नरेन्द्र ग्यान गुन सागर | जय मोदी तिहुँ लोक उजागर || राष्ट्रदूत अतुलित बलधामा | दामोदर पुत्र नरेन्दर नामा || तुम उपकार राष्ट्र पर कीन्हा | कच्छ संवारि स्वर्ग... सम कीन्हा || माया, मुलायम थर थर काँपैं | काँग्रेस को चिंता व्यापै || नासहि सपा मिटैं बसपाई | खिलै कमल फूलैं भजपाई || साधु संत के तुम रखबारे | असुर निकंदन राष्ट्रदुलारे || संत रसायन तुम्हरे पासा | सदा रहहु भारत के दासा || भारत विश्वगुरु बन जावै | जब मोदी दिल्ली मैं आवै || चीन पाक दोउ निकट न आवै | जब मोदी को नाम सुनावै || नासहिं दुष्ट और अपराधा | भ्रष्टाचार मिटावहिं बाधा || करहि विकास स्वर्ग सम सुंदर | बनहि राम को सुंदर मंदिर || असुर निवारि सुरन्ह कौ थापैं | राहुल सोनिया कबहुँ न व्यापै || मोदी मंत्र एक सम जाना | करहि विकास राष्ट्र सनमाना || भारत राष्ट्र पराक्रमशाली | होहि सिद्ध यह शंशय नाही || जय मोदी || :hysterical::hysterical:
Crookbond Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Its a tricky thing DM. Unfortunately, elections worldwide are not fought on the basis of one and two here and there facts. Election railles are all about creating perceptions, I will give you example: if my company wants to market itself in a new geography, the CEO would be telling many things about the company, many of which would be somethings which happened due to extenal forces but still CEO would be presenting them to impress the clients. If the Petrol prices would have increased somehow, wouldn't AAP and Congress would be blaming government for that. I am sure you would not have raised the concern then. Election Rallies are to build perception, Modi and BJP would be trying to create a good perception of theirs and Congress and oppositon would be doing the opposite. All that I'm saying is that Modi created the wrong perception. I will be more than happy to admit that Kejriwal created a wrong perception about many other things. However, that Kejriwal created a wrong perception is not justification that Modi created one. Both are equally wrong. The call out for wrong perceptions is how we improve as a democracy. The quest for facts over perception is how we improve our understanding of the system and that's also how we participate. The moment the argument is "They also do it!", well we are maintaining status quo. This is my personal opinion btw.
Recommended Posts