Crookbond Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 Flawed logic. The Indian theater owner's decision is not influenced by the US. They take individual decisions based on their profitability. If the US theater saves 10$ by making people book online (by spending $1 on the website), they will more likely encourage people to buy online. If the Indian theater saves 10cents by making people people book online( by spending the same $1 on the website), they will drag their feet around and try to pass the cost on to the customer. Dude - That was just an example saying why "how much you save by online booking" doesn't matter. It still gives no reason to pass the buck to the customer as you're still saving when the customer is booking online. Please don't drag this out of context. Trace the complete conversation reference. Phewww! Edit Oh and when I meant "save" that save is net save not individual section save.
Crookbond Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 I am an Apple "fanboy" as one might say' date=' but Apple has one of the shoddiest customer service experiences. If something does go wrong with your Apple device you are going to have a harrowing time. A friend's screen on his MacBook started flickering 10-15 days after the one year warranty ran out and Apple did not do sh!t about it and put the blame on him for not purchasing the extended warranty.[/quote'] Well, I have the exact opposite experience. I was given a phone technical support even after warranty - twice. Something was wrong with my device and they fixed in a couple of days and provided discounts on other products. As for your friend, once the warranty passes out Apple (or anyone in it's position) will ask you to go for a replacement and you would've have to pay. It's a pretty clear deal when you're buying. I don't think your friend stands a case there, sorry.
The Outsider Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 Lets say a movie theatre in US saves 2$ and in India saves 1$. I see no reason why Indian movie theatres should charge 70 cents a "convenience" fee. They are still saving 1$. The theatre can't say - "Hey' date=' you know what? In US they save 2$, so I will increase it by 70 cents man."[/quote'] As I said, a lot of cinemas and theaters charge booking fees even in the US. And anyways, I don't think they are thinking of the US model while coming up with their pricing model. Think about it like this - they've developed a service(online booking) and they are selling that service to those who are interested. People will use that service to the extent that they think benefits them and sure paying Rs. 20 beats the hell out of spending an hour in traffic and paying Rs. 100 for petrol.
akshayxyz Posted June 20, 2012 Author Posted June 20, 2012 There are other perceived benefits to other customers apart from the customer in question. It helps create a better movie experience and increases ticket sales. Classic page from the Apple book of marketing. This. This is what should be the core of being a good salesman and not showing baniya mentality and counting pennies in short term. On the side note, since you mentioned 'Apple' - they push the cost of every bit of class/quality/service they provide - in the cost of the item :). #Off topic, but a related retarded move at one of my previous organization. Desi management started to cut the cost, by removing office stationary, free coffee/tea vending machines (replacing with paid ones) and many other employee convenience stuff. They were so bent on exploring depths ( or peaks) of retardation - that even to get envelopes - you have to ask your manager. He was supposed to keep some minimal stationary and some ****. Now, for some at top level staring at excel and preparing a ppt - it must have looked like cutting costs - but did it create better working environment for employees? definitely no. Also, they must have never imagined that countless man-hours would be wasted on coffee table discussions around such trivial topics - which better be spent doing something more productive.
ganeshran Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 Dude - That was just an example saying why "how much you save by online booking" doesn't matter. It still gives no reason to pass the buck to the customer as you're still saving when the customer is booking online. Please don't drag this out of context. Trace the complete conversation reference. Phewww! I dont see how I dragged it out of context. Your example is flawed because how much you save by online booking does matter A LOT, because at the end of the day you have to spend money to keep the website up and running. The savings come at a cost - the investment to keep the website running and the transaction charges. If the savings are high enough to justify the investment, everyone would jump at it. If they are not so high, owners baulk and try to pass the buck to the customer. Simple economics really
Crookbond Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 As I said, a lot of cinemas and theaters charge booking fees even in the US. And anyways, I don't think they are thinking of the US model while coming up with their pricing model. Think about it like this - they've developed a service(online booking) and they are selling that service to those who are interested. People will use that service to the extent that they think benefits them and sure paying Rs. 20 beats the hell out of spending an hour in traffic and paying Rs. 100 for petrol. Unless this service is actually an add-on which benefits the movie theatre by saving costs. :acute:
The Outsider Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 As for your friend, once the warranty passes out Apple (or anyone in it's position) will ask you to go for a replacement and you would've have to pay. It's a pretty clear deal when you're buying. I don't think your friend stands a case there, sorry. Yeah, technically he doesn't have a case but I can give you so many examples of other companies helping out the customer in such border line cases in the US. But Apple will never do it - they'll stick to the book.
Crookbond Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 I dont see how I dragged it out of context. Your example is flawed because how much you save by online booking does matter A LOT, because at the end of the day you have to spend money to keep the website up and running. The savings come at a cost - the investment to keep the website running and the transaction charges. If the savings are high enough to justify the investment, everyone would jump at it. If they are not so high, owners baulk and try to pass the buck to the customer. Simple economics really Check the Edit. Also, if you think that cost of maintaining & running a BookMyShow would be more than the money saved by the number of online books + better ticket experience for other users + more impulsive food buys + return customers , I rest my case.
The Outsider Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 Unless this service is actually an add-on which benefits the movie theatre by saving costs. :acute: It's not saving them any costs - they are having to pay for the website, online security of transactions, servers, credit card companies etc. instead of putting a person at the counter at Rs. 8000-10000 per month.
akshayxyz Posted June 20, 2012 Author Posted June 20, 2012 As I said, a lot of cinemas and theaters charge booking fees even in the US. And anyways, I don't think they are thinking of the US model while coming up with their pricing model. Think about it like this - they've developed a service(online booking) and they are selling that service to those who are interested. People will use that service to the extent that they think benefits them and sure paying Rs. 20 beats the hell out of spending an hour in traffic and paying Rs. 100 for petrol. Finally, some sensible justification came out of this sagar manthan. . Though it is just play of words, I am still not convinced that this is fair/right approach. So the point still remains, IMO, they better incentivize this service, as it is going to save cost in long term (and already is) - and should not be looked at/sold in isolation of their core business/product. The cost better be recovered from all customers and not the section, you would ideally want to grow.
Crookbond Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 Yeah' date=' technically he doesn't have a case but I can give you so many examples of other companies helping out the customer in such border line cases in the US. But Apple will never do it - they'll stick to the book.[/quote'] I see what you're trying to say. In my case, at least with the phone support they don't always play with book. Within warranty, I've found them the best customer service I have dealt with. Anyways, I don't want to turn this into another Apple thread!
Crookbond Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 It's not saving them any costs - they are having to pay for the website' date= online security of transactions, servers, credit card companies etc. instead of putting a person at the counter at Rs. 8000-10000 per month. That's paltry. I have regularly been involved with e-commerce websites which made a mind boggling 1 Lakh transactions per month on an average. It's NOT expensive, trust me - especially now more than ever before. Again, this is specifically wrt to Indian movie cinemas. I would refrain from US cinemas as the same problems don't exist.
akshayxyz Posted June 20, 2012 Author Posted June 20, 2012 Check the Edit. Also' date=' if you think that cost of maintaining & running a BookMyShow would be more than the money saved by the number of online books + better ticket experience for other users + more impulsive food buys + return customers , I rest my case.[/quote'] As I said, like a typical baniya they are just counting the added cost, and have not done (or not willing to) proper homework on the benefits. A good salesman ( not baniya types), should share the benefits and costs alike - ( yea that's idealistic statement coming from someone, who never did any business) - but I guess we can find more examples of such businesses gaining by incentivizing online purchase - than otherwise.
The Outsider Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 Finally' date=' some sensible justification came out of this [i']sagar manthan. . Though it is just play of words, I am still not convinced that this is fair/right approach. So the point still remains, IMO, they better incentivize this service, as it is going to save cost in long term (and already is) - and should not be looked at/sold in isolation of their core business/product. The cost better be recovered from all customers and not the section, you would ideally want to grow. I don't think they are saving any costs by getting rid of one or two persons with a salary of Rs. 8000-10000 per month. That would just be their server costs and there are so many other costs involved in running an online payment system. Of course, one can't say for sure without looking at their detailed accounts but prima facie it doesn't appear to me that they are saving any costs.
Crookbond Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 Just in case - Great businesses never do business to earn money. Their main motive is the company's mission. Sure, they make moneys along the way but that's not their aim. This includes companies like Apple, Facebook and HP. Here's a quote from Walt Disney “We don't make movies to make money. We make money to make more movies." This is not to say business don't make profits, sure they do. But, it's what they do with such profits defines who they are.
ganeshran Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 Check the Edit. Also' date=' if you think that cost of maintaining & running a BookMyShow would be more than the money saved by the number of online books + better ticket experience for other users + more impulsive food buys + return customers , I rest my case.[/quote'] There might not be a net amount saved for Indian theaters for them to immediately waive off convenience charges. If there were net savings, there is no reason why they would charge the extra amount, which in fact is a way for them to offset the additional expenditure of maintaining the online infrastructure. The implusive food buys - Not sure how this comes into the picture ticket experience, return customers etc - For theaters to waive the convenience charges, they would have to be convinced that the extra charges deter customers from buying online. I dont think this is the case as most customers dont mind paying the additional 20 bucks . Till the additional amount becomes a bone of contention for customers to decide whether to book online/offline, the situation is not going to change. To add to this, the percentage of online customers itself isnt high enough for theaters to cut booking counters. Once this percentage becomes high, theaters might be tempted to make online buying more attractive and cut costs, but as of now they are happy to pass the buck to the customer.
The Outsider Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 That's paltry. I have regularly been involved with e-commerce websites which made a mind boggling 1 Lakh transactions per month on an average. It's NOT expensive' date=' trust me - especially now more than ever before. Again, this is specifically wrt to Indian movie cinemas. I would refrain from US cinemas as the same problems don't exist.[/quote'] Forget about everything else and just take the credit card transaction costs they have to pay as vendors - I am not sure of the exact number in India but my guess would be it's around the 2% range. A person buying in person is highly unlikely to pay for a Rs. 200 ticket by credit card whereas the theater owner has to pay 2% of that for every credit card transaction online. Rs.8000-10000 would just be the server cost I guess.
The Outsider Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 As I said' date=' like a typical [i']baniya they are just counting the added cost, and have not done (or not willing to) proper homework on the benefits. A good salesman ( not baniya types), should share the benefits and costs alike - ( yea that's idealistic statement coming from someone, who never did any business) - but I guess we can find more examples of such businesses gaining by incentivizing online purchase - than otherwise. Yaar, are most cinemas, theaters, and stadiums in the US also suffering from baniya mentality?
ganeshran Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 Here is the transaction charges for major payment gateways. Most are in the range of 3-5%. Some even go upto 6%.
Crookbond Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 There might not be a net amount saved for Indian theaters for them to immediately waive off convenience charges. If there were net savings, there is no reason why they would charge the extra amount, which in fact is a way for them to offset the additional expenditure of maintaining the online infrastructure. The implusive food buys - Not sure how this comes into the picture ticket experience, return customers etc - For theaters to waive the convenience charges, they would have to be convinced that the extra charges deter customers from buying online. I dont think this is the case as most customers dont mind paying the additional 20 bucks . Till the additional amount becomes a bone of contention for customers to decide whether to book online/offline, the situation is not going to change. To add to this, the percentage of online customers itself isnt high enough for theaters to cut booking counters. Once this percentage becomes high, theaters might be tempted to make online buying more attractive and cut costs, but as of now they are happy to pass the buck to the customer. There woud no reason for them to charge is a weak argument. They "are" charging that's the point. You are making a speculative position on the "online customers". So here's some data for you - Bookmyshow.com is the leading entertainment ticketing portal in the country, with a 90% market share. It is also one of the top five transacted websites in the country, with sales peaking over 1 million tickets, and customer spends of over Rs.100 million, on an average every month. Bookmyshow.com has ticketed for over 750 screens across 86 cities and has partnerships with all major Indian production houses and studios with real time ticketing for most major cinema chains. Now, you do the math and tell me that the cost of the servers & websites are more than the "convenience" they benefit. The less "online customers" is a pure fallacy of the modern India.
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