US consulate in Chennai attacked, riots in Ghaziabad

[Asim]

No one forces you to sit in the room and watch the video.

OK and answer to my question is?

[Trichromatic]

OK and answer to my question is?

Answer is simple. If you pull out the sword (kept by someone else) out of corners and throw your kids over it, then you shouldn't complain about getting hurt.

[Crookbond]

Hurting and killing some innocent, physiclaly is: terrorism and hurting and killing some innocent, mentally is?

Can you see the difference between the two? I am having this discussion with you because you are a reasonable person to have a nice conversation. Asim, We are not in the 700 ADs now, this is the modern Internet age. Anyone can make and upload a video. You do not have to agree with everyone in this world. There are so many Indo-Pak hate videos on YouTube. Just type "Hate India" or "Hate Pakistan" and you will find many of them. The video is downright insulting to Muslims no question. It is not even funny but two wrongs do not make a right. Now, let us assume the video was "mentally distressing" to you & your religioin. Next step, go against the guys who uploaded this video. In your protest, you are hurting "innocent" people man. Btw, do you support the War in Iraq - if not why?

[Asim]

Answer is simple. If you pull out the sword (kept by someone else) out of corners and throw your kids over it' date=' then you shouldn't complain about getting hurt.[/quote'] Not sure in what context u talking... Q is simple, "generally" speaking, I repeat If I Intentionally hurt someone's belief or feelings and torture him mentally, what my action would be called?

[Trichromatic]

Asim, We are not in the 700 ADs now, this is the modern Internet age. Anyone can make and upload a video. You do not have to agree with everyone in this world. There are so many Indo-Pak hate videos on YouTube. Just type "Hate India" or "Hate Pakistan" and you will find many of them. The video is downright insulting to Muslims no question. It is not even funny but two wrongs do not make a right. Now, let us assume the video was "mentally distressing" to you & your religioin. Next step, go against the guys who uploaded this video. In your protest, you are hurting "innocent" people man. Btw, do you support the War in Iraq - if not why?

Forget being funny, video looks like a c-grade movie. Why should anyone bother spending 13 minutes watching it and thinking about it at all?

[Crookbond]

Forget being funny' date=' video looks like a c-grade movie. Why should anyone bother spending 13 minutes watching it and thinking about it at all?[/quote'] Vibhash, As I said I agree with you. We should agree to disagree but sometimes these lines are crossed. Let us take this particular example as the "line was crossed". Asim feels that way, so let us take his word for it. Next, what Asim and anyone who supports such protests should tell me - How being offended about a caricature or an inflammatory video justifies killing people who have got no direct relation to it whatsoever. I don't get the link - glad if someone shows me the connection.

[Trichromatic]

If I Intentionally hurt someone's belief or feelings and torture him mentally, what my action would be called?

Stupidity, idiocy whatever you want to use in this case and foolishness for the person who is calling everyone to get hurt by it.

[Asim]

Vibhash, As I said I agree with you. We should agree to disagree but sometimes these lines are crossed. Let us take this particular example as the "line was crossed". Asim feels that way, so let us take his word for it. Next, what Asim and anyone who supports such protests should tell me - How being offended about a caricature or an inflammatory video justifies killing people who have got no direct relation to it whatsoever. I don't get the link - glad if someone shows me the connection.

I simply am against any protest which might hurt any innocent, it of course can never be justified. Having said that, another simple Q: Suppose I do look like one educated and reasonable person with all in my senses. Right now I go out in market near my home, start motherly and sisterly abusing everybody infront of me (remember I am not even touching them physically) speak out loudly every BS I can, shout every f^&* crap I know will hurt them emotionally. Now should there I expect them to behave rationally; follow every law of state and go register a written complaint against me somewhere or wouldnt few guys out of them (if not the whole public) would come fwd and broke my face? cz I intentionally provoked them to do so and nobody might even bother to stop them (remember I was not even abusing those guys in particular, it was just randomly to everyone). Now here would I be left with any right to defend myself saying it was my "right of freedom of expression"? and can I call those guys and public there the radicals, ill-mannered, jahilss, fundamentalists blah blah? Tell me honestly who will be the main culprit there? Me or the public?

[ganeshran]

See this onion image which offended many readers of various faiths because of portrayal of their religious symbols (except Islam). Its much more vulgar than anything which has been published on Mohammed and yet readers see it, register their protest in the comments section and move on with their lives. You dont see people going on a rampage, killing others and then justifying it in the name of "mental torture". No one in the world has the right to consider their symbols sacred and free from criticism by others and that applies to any religion. No group should be allowed to hold the world at a ransom by pointing a gun to their own heads and threatening to erupt in violent protests at the slightest perceived slight. Warning : NSFW and Vulgar

http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-one-murdered-because-of-this-image,29553

[ganeshran]

Suppose I do look like one educated and reasonable person with all in my senses. Right now I go out in market near my home, start motherly and sisterly abusing everybody infront of me (remember I am not even touching them physically) speak out loudly every BS I can, shout every f^&* crap I know will hurt them emotionally.

This is simply not the right analogy. The filmmaker made a movie and released it on the internet. He didnt force anyone to see the movie or thrust his own beliefs on others. If you sit in your house and shout MC BC on anyone, no body is going to come and hurt you. If you videotape yourself abusing someone and releasing it on youtube, then the person has two options - either ignore it or file a defamation suit. If he goes on a rampage and kills some random person on the street because of his anger, would you be held responsible for the murder?

[Trichromatic]

Vibhash, As I said I agree with you. We should agree to disagree but sometimes these lines are crossed. Let us take this particular example as the "line was crossed". Asim feels that way, so let us take his word for it.

This is not the first time line has been crossed. Just visit Sur Kshetra page on facebook. Stuff being posted there is more disgraceful than that video and offensive not only to Muslims, but also to Hindus, Indians and Pakistanis. It has been going for more than hundred hours now. But I'm yet to see a single protest against that by Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Indians or Pakistanis.

[Tiger80]

I simply am against any protest which might hurt any innocent, it of course can never be justified. Having said that, another simple Q: Suppose I do look like one educated and reasonable person with all in my senses. Right now I go out in market near my home, start motherly and sisterly abusing everybody infront of me (remember I am not even touching them physically) speak out loudly every BS I can, shout every f^&* crap I know will hurt them emotionally. Now should there I expect them to behave rationally; follow every law of state and go register a written complaint against me somewhere or wouldnt few guys out of them (if not the whole public) would come fwd and broke my face? cz I intentionally provoked them to do so and nobody might even bother to stop them (remember I was not even abusing those guys in particular, it was just randomly to everyone). Now here would I be left with any right to defend myself saying it was my "right of freedom of expression"? and can I call those guys and public there the radicals, ill-mannered, jahilss, fundamentalists blah blah? Tell me honestly who will be the main culprit there? Me or the public?

Face to face and creating a video are two different situation You can create video any american and verbally abuse him as much you like and upload it on youtube if law of your country allow you.Now if that person and his in retaliation go and kill some Pakistanis in USA then who is the bigger culprit?

[CSK Fan]

I simply am against any protest which might hurt any innocent, it of course can never be justified. Having said that, another simple Q: Suppose I do look like one educated and reasonable person with all in my senses. Right now I go out in market near my home, start motherly and sisterly abusing everybody infront of me (remember I am not even touching them physically) speak out loudly every BS I can, shout every f^&* crap I know will hurt them emotionally. Now should there I expect them to behave rationally; follow every law of state and go register a written complaint against me somewhere or wouldnt few guys out of them (if not the whole public) would come fwd and broke my face? cz I intentionally provoked them to do so and nobody might even bother to stop them (remember I was not even abusing those guys in particular, it was just randomly to everyone). Now here would I be left with any right to defend myself saying it was my "right of freedom of expression"? and can I call those guys and public there the radicals, ill-mannered, jahilss, fundamentalists blah blah? Tell me honestly who will be the main culprit there? Me or the public?

What kind of kid logic is this? this is the stuff kids talk in the playground. After being on the internet for so long, you should have some clue about the internet and the nature of media. Anyone can publish anything on the internet. a 12 year old can shoot videos and post on youtube and hide safely. What can you do about it? BTW, in that example you used, the mob fury will be on you. Will you consider it justified if the mob attacks other people of your country in some remote corner of the world? If the mob attacks people of your religion because of you? In the Prophet video case, neither America, nor the US ambassador had anything to do with the video. How can any sane human being even defend such an action? The more you use reasoning like you did for violence, the more some muslims come across as uncivilized and immature people who have never grown up from their college days and believe in violence regardless of the consequences. A more mature person would understand that violence and attention is what the movie maker wanted and avoid playing into his hands. Remember, no matter what the provocation, every human being still has the free-will to ignore the provocations. Heck, if every human being acted with violence every time he was provoked for something, half the world will be dead. But these protestors behave like kids who have no control over their emotion and have to go on a toys breaking spree, except toys here are innocent people's lives. There seems to be a growing trend among some muslims that the measure of how devoted you are to your religion is how offened you get from something you consider 'insulting'. I have seen a lot of people coming out and say that they love the Prophet and thats why they get offended. So now the true measure of religion is not how much you follow it but by how offended you get if someone insults it. In Islam taking an innocent life is strictly forbidden. But these muslims ignore that. So for them now, defending the Prophet is more important than following what he preached. How messed up is that? There are so many devote muslims who spend their life helping the poor, following every tenet of Islam and living in peace. But when muslims use examples of who are more devote followers, they never use these people as examples. They use the ones who are most 'offended' when someone says something about Islam or the Prophet. And of course then everyone tries to be like these devote muslims and commit violence themselves. There also seems to be a case of insecurity where each person tries to show how much of a true believer he is to other muslims. He faces peer pressure to indulge in the same protests and violence to prove to others how good of a muslim he is. He might also face coercion and threats. For example, in Pakistan, a muslim man was booked for blasphemy for not closing his shops for protests against the video http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/09/19/pakistani-man-charged-with-blasphemy-after-refusing-to-join-protest-against-anti-islamic-film/

[Crookbond]

This is simply not the right analogy. The filmmaker made a movie and released it on the internet. He didnt force anyone to see the movie or thrust his own beliefs on others. If you sit in your house and shout MC BC on anyone, no body is going to come and hurt you. If you videotape yourself abusing someone and releasing it on youtube, then the person has two options - either ignore it or file a defamation suit. If he goes on a rampage and kills some random person on the street because of his anger, would you be held responsible for the murder?

Perfect! :good:

[Crookbond]

This is not the first time line has been crossed. Just visit Sur Kshetra page on facebook. Stuff being posted there is more disgraceful than that video and offensive not only to Muslims, but also to Hindus, Indians and Pakistanis. It has been going for more than hundred hours now. But I'm yet to see a single protest against that by Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Indians or Pakistanis.

Vibhash, I agree with you mate! Just that even after considering the fact that the video is offensive the violent protests make no sense to me.

[Asim]

This is simply not the right analogy. The filmmaker made a movie and released it on the internet. He didnt force anyone to see the movie or thrust his own beliefs on others. If you sit in your house and shout MC BC on anyone, no body is going to come and hurt you. If you videotape yourself abusing someone and releasing it on youtube, then the person has two options - either ignore it or file a defamation suit. If he goes on a rampage and kills some random person on the street because of his anger, would you be held responsible for the murder?

What kind of kid logic is this? this is the stuff kids talk in the playground. After being on the internet for so long, you should have some clue about the internet and the nature of media. Anyone can publish anything on the internet. a 12 year old can shoot videos and post on youtube and hide safely. What can you do about it? BTW, in that example you used, the mob fury will be on you. Will you consider it justified if the mob attacks other people of your country in some remote corner of the world? If the mob attacks people of your religion because of you? In the Prophet video case, neither America, nor the US ambassador had anything to do with the video. How can any sane human being even defend such an action?

In my example I was the one who knew whats going to hurt public the most which they wont ignore. Here in this issue he knew very well whats going to hurt all Muslims globally and what they cant ignore, while releasing it on internet they knew very well how any Muslim anywhere in the world would react. Any Muslim can never ignore such thing saying OK I am not watching it, if they knew one such thing exists, watching or not watching not even relevant, they would protest to remove it. Now the part, anyone can do it on internet, here comes next thing which in this case was even more frustrating for Muslims and in my opinion actual trigger point, was the youtube denial for its removal, had they removed it, I am sure it wouldn't hv reached this far. If I am not wrong they every month remove 100s of videos either been flagged or reported in big number or even on a phonecall from some relevant forces etc. Here few states and literally 1/5 of whole world requesting to remove it, yet they denied, fair u think?

[Trichromatic]

Any Muslim can never ignore such thing saying OK I am not watching it' date= if they knew one such thing exists, watching or not watching not even relevant, they would protest to remove it.

Disagree with you. Muslims and other groups can ignore and have ignored stuff like that before the video incident and even after the video incident. Check my last post especially the spoiler part if you want to know more. No protests and killings for thousands of posts, videos and images offensive to Islam, Hinduism, India and Pakistan on that fb page shows that it is easier to ignore and keep such stuff from being not known to everyone. Protest against 13 minute of video v nothing against continuous flow of offensive material for 3-4 days. What does this prove?

[Crookbond]

In my example I was the one who knew whats going to hurt public the most which they wont ignore. Here in this issue he knew very well whats going to hurt all Muslims globally and what they cant ignore, while releasing it on internet they knew very well how any Muslim anywhere in the world would react. Any Muslim can never ignore such thing saying OK I am not watching it, if they knew one such thing exists, watching or not watching not even relevant, they would protest to remove it. Now the part, anyone can do it on internet, here comes next thing which in this case was even more frustrating for Muslims and in my opinion actual trigger point, was the youtube denial for its removal, had they removed it, I am sure it wouldn't hv reached this far. If I am not wrong they every month remove 100s of videos either been flagged or reported in big number or even on a phonecall from some relevant forces etc. Here few states and literally 1/5 of whole world requesting to remove it, yet they denied, fair u think?

LOL, you can not phone call Google mate. Sorry, but that cracked me up You are talking out of misinformation here I am afraid. Google decides on what to take down and what not to according to it's policies. It does not listen to a particular religion or even a country like US. Take some time to check Google's Government Report [0]. The category of the video in discussion is "defamation". July to December 2011

United States We received a request from a local law enforcement agency to remove a blog because of a post that allegedly defamed a law enforcement official in a personal capacity. We did not comply with this request, which we have categorized in this Report as a defamation request. We received a request from a local law enforcement agency to remove 1,400 YouTube videos for alleged harassment. We did not comply with this request. Separately, we received a request from a different local law enforcement agency to remove five user accounts that allegedly contained threatening and/or harassing content. We terminated four of the accounts, which resulted in the removal of approximately 300 videos, but did not remove the remaining account with 54 videos. We received a court order to remove 218 search results that linked to allegedly defamatory websites. We removed 25% of the results cited in the request.

You can look out for more requests made from different countries and you can see how they do not comply with requests. You are essentially playing the victim card here when you are NOT. [0] https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/government/

[Asim]

Disagree with you. Muslims and other groups can ignore and have ignored stuff like that before the video incident and even after the video incident. Check my last post especially the spoiler part if you want to know more.

Any Muslim can never ignore such thing saying OK I am not watching it' date=' [b']if they knew one such thing exists, watching or not watching not even relevant, they would protest to remove it.

Releasing one such movie in a cinema was a step asking for trouble on much much larger scale as compared to one unknown FB page, if I am not wrong until few weeks there was no reaction anywhere even for this movie as not many people were even aware of it then besides releasing it on internet it was even translated in different languages and been shown in other parts of world, same as one fb page do you think?

[Crookbond]

Releasing one such movie in a cinema was a step asking for trouble on much much larger scale as compared to one unknown FB page' date=' if I am not wrong until few weeks there was no reaction anywhere even for this movie as not many people were even aware of it then besides releasing it on internet it was even translated in different languages and been shown in other parts of world, same as one fb page do you think?[/quote'] Your concern for take down of the movie is valid and a point of discussion. However, you playing victim card that YouTube does not take down videos which are derogatory to Muslims is wrong. Further to that, no protest justifies killing someone - in the end it is you who lose credibility, not us.